Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Double noticing for public hearings

  1. #1

    Registered
    Jul 2010
    Location
    The Land Before Time
    Posts
    10

    Double noticing for public hearings

    I live in a small rural community in California I am, by title the Planning Technician, but I actually serve as the City Planner. I have been here for 10 years now and I have acted as the Planning Commission Secretary for all 10 years. There is an issue that keeps coming up, I would like to get resolved.
    The question is in regards to double noticing a public hearing. If a planning/land use application is required to receive approval from both Planning Commission and City Council can the city noticing the public hearing notice both meeting dates it in one publication?
    I seem to remember that this could not be done because the City must wait for
    the recommendation from the first body reviewing, approving and/or recommending (with potential conditions) approval before being able to notice for the 2nd body of
    review and approval.
    I am sure this is clear as mud, but I am hoping that someone out in Cyburbia will have back-up documentation stating rather or not it is legal.
    I look forward to hearing your responses. Thank you

  2. #2
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    6,410
    Quote Originally posted by Lil Miss Planner View post
    I live in a small rural community in California I am, by title the Planning Technician, but I actually serve as the City Planner. I have been here for 10 years now and I have acted as the Planning Commission Secretary for all 10 years. There is an issue that keeps coming up, I would like to get resolved.
    The question is in regards to double noticing a public hearing. If a planning/land use application is required to receive approval from both Planning Commission and City Council can the city noticing the public hearing notice both meeting dates it in one publication?
    I seem to remember that this could not be done because the City must wait for
    the recommendation from the first body reviewing, approving and/or recommending (with potential conditions) approval before being able to notice for the 2nd body of
    review and approval.
    I am sure this is clear as mud, but I am hoping that someone out in Cyburbia will have back-up documentation stating rather or not it is legal.
    I look forward to hearing your responses. Thank you
    Public hearing notices/open meetings act requirements are typically governed by state statues first, then local ordinances second. I would check with your state statutes and get an opinion from your legal counsel. The answers to your question will vary from state to state.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chicago Region
    Posts
    73
    I concur with btrage...check your State Statute. A further recommendation is stick with the minimum notice prescribed by State Statute. Most LUL attorney I speak to nowadays are recommending this and STRONGLY advising against any form of "courtesy" notice (notice not [I]required[I] by either State statute or local ordinance).

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2007
    Location
    America's Happiest City
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally posted by Lil Miss Planner View post
    I seem to remember that this could not be done because the City must wait for
    the recommendation from the first body reviewing, approving and/or recommending (with potential conditions) approval before being able to notice for the 2nd body of
    review and approval.
    State Law is not clear on this matter, thus city's rely on court rulings to clear up any misconceptions.

    1) Noticing should be done per what your ordinances say. Thus if it says a quarter page ad for planning commission/quarter page ad for city council then obviously go with the ordinances. Also make sure you meet minimum distance requirements as established by your local ordinance.

    2) Section 4 of Chapter 131 of State Statues states "requirements for public notice are fulfilled if the public agency responsible for giving the notice makes a good faith effort to follow the procedures perscribed by law for giving that notice...

    3) What is good faith efforts? Is double noticing a good faith effort? Umm.. depends. In Clark v. City of Hermosa Beach, the court found that the applicants were deined a fair hearing due in part because the City Council raised issues and concerns for the frist time after the public portion of the hearing. The applicants had not recieved notice of these issues and were not permitted to address them by having the hearing reopened.

    So what does this mean to you? If the Planning Commission raised issues or concerns and an applicant only recieved one notice, and the item were to be delayed, and your city failed to follow through with a follow up notice, then you have found yourself violating due process. It becomes a slippery slope.

    If noticing is a cost issue, then it should be born apon the applicant. As others have stated, stick to "bare minimum" noticing, unless of course your dealing with a very high profile project like a wal-mart.

    It can be done, it just presents itself a problem if you continued a item, additional information was requested, etc. and not to mention may be viewed as "biased" by the general public because it assumes the PC simply will just move it forward.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2008
    Location
    the delta
    Posts
    1,192
    Where I am State Code says the Notice must be published at least 7 but not more than 20 days before the meeting. If our commission and council meetings fall within that 7-20 date range then theoretically we could combine them but we do not. I'd bet that your state code has similar deadlines.

    As for cost, zoning notices don't cost that much because we keep them very sparse (anyone who would care asks the office anyway, regardless of what the notice says) so they are about $15 per publication. Plus, the applicant pays for it anyway in their application fee. To reduce costs you could find another paper willing to go cheaper. We told our paper we were leaving for another and instead of charging the state maximum they dropped their price by over half just to keep the business.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  6. #6

    Registered
    Jul 2010
    Location
    The Land Before Time
    Posts
    10
    Indeed State Law is not clear on this matter. The City Clerk, Community Development Director and myself have spent some time working on this. The project we have on the table is a Development Agreement for a new 16 acre shopping center (with a proposed Wal-Mart or Target). There are members of the community that may be opposed to this development due to the fact they are neighboring or current property owners of the land proposed to be developed.

    AHHHH Yes....this is where we say cover all of our bases. The discussion has come up because some staff think double noticing would help streamline the process, and others are weary of how it might look to members of the community.

    I recall in 2008 at the UCLA Annual Planning and Land Use Conference double noticing was one of the topics of the "Quick Hits" session and a City was sued and lost because of double noticing. Seeing how I neglected to write down the court case I have nothing to stand on when I present my side of why we should NOT double notice at all but more specifically this project. I would like to give them something other than my paranoia of potential lawsuits.

    I will have to pull up Clark v. Hermosa Beach

    Thanks for your help

  7. #7
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Jukin' City
    Posts
    16,377
    Raf raised the issue. What if your planning commission continued the item and you had it scheduled for the next available council meeting? The public would attend the council meeting expecting to comment on the matter. Don't embarrass yourself--do two public notices and impose the cost of noticing on the applicant. If your jurisdiction does the noticing, incorporate that cost into the application fee.
    RJ is the KING of . The One

  8. #8

    Registered
    Jul 2010
    Location
    The Land Before Time
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally posted by RichmondJake View post
    Raf raised the issue. What if your planning commission continued the item and you had it scheduled for the next available council meeting? The public would attend the council meeting expecting to comment on the matter. Don't embarrass yourself--do two public notices and impose the cost of noticing on the applicant. If your jurisdiction does the noticing, incorporate that cost into the application fee.
    Actually that is what happened. Our Planning Commission was not happy about being backed into a corner so to speak. Planning Commission continued the public hearing to the next regualrly scheduled meeting, in addition they held a joint public workshop with the Economic Development Commission to review the Development Agreement.
    Planning Commission will meet again on the 13th to review the Development Agreement. This has all come up because our Clerk was going to publish a courtesy notice for the Planning Commission PH along with the City Council PH notice.
    My thought was we are putting Planning Commission back in that corner and we should not notice the PH for City Council until we have an approval or recommendation of approval from Planning Commission.

    My stand point on this is I do not believe in double noticing, but when I have powers higher than me pushing it thru, it becomes a sticky for me.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Joe Iliff's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 1997
    Location
    Clowns to the left, jokers to the right
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally posted by Lil Miss Planner View post
    My stand point on this is I do not believe in double noticing, but when I have powers higher than me pushing it thru, it becomes a sticky for me.
    I suppose this all comes down to "You live by the notice you provide." When it comes to doing something that requires notice, you can do what you notice, or do nothing, but nothing else. So, if you provide a narrowly-tailored notice, you've limited yourself to that narrow margin of dates, times, topics, etc..
    JOE ILIFF
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Debt is normal . . . Be weird!
    Dave Ramsey

    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 15
    Last post: 05 Jun 2012, 12:51 PM
  2. Replies: 31
    Last post: 29 Jan 2010, 11:23 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last post: 15 Mar 2006, 5:30 PM
  4. Replies: 16
    Last post: 08 Jan 2005, 11:43 AM
  5. e-notices of public hearings
    Information Technology
    Replies: 2
    Last post: 06 Mar 2001, 9:22 PM