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Thread: How to fix the American housing system

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    How to fix the American housing system

    I think one can safely say that the US housing delivery system is broken, with US homeownership down by about 5% from its peak and still falling, with nearly zero private sector activity in new mortgages outside of Federally subsidized FHA/Fannie/Freddie programs (the private sector is providing only about 10 cents on every dollar lent under guarantees from the Federal mortgage programs), and with the securitization system so messed up that, quite often, nobody can prove they own anything. Effectively, the system as it stands now appears to some to be a giant, multi-trillion dollar house of cards, where unreasonably high valuations are artificially propped up by Federal subsidies, to the expense of affordability and systemic solvency.

    Housing demand IS recovering, with new mortgage applications surging, but banks are only lending public dollars, not their own money. Clearly, the urban development activity on which our profession depends is linked heavily to housing activity and an operational housing product delivery system. With that system dysfunctional to the point of non-existence outside of the Federal guarantee system, clearly something has to be done - and more importantly, there is an opportunity to do something, with population still growing and latent demand pent up as it is in the system.

    We planners need to think about what this all means and what should come next. I thought I'd try to start a discussion to solicit perspectives on this issue.

    1. Should the Canadian system be considered? No mortgage deduction, sales tax on transactions, 20-30% down, 100% private-sector lending. One can argue that our vast bureaucracy of housing mortgage subsidies just props up values, decreases affordability, and increases transaction and production costs. An argument can be made that we take advantage of the fact that the system is broken now to allow the market to free-fall and find a new/affordable private equilibrium, with the subsidy framework effectively removed or drastically curtailed. Federal subsidies can still kick in through increased tax credits, but the guarantee system itself would be phased out over time. The downside would be that the transition would APPEAR to homeowners to be extremely painful (this is a tough love scenario), as housing prices would continue to fall, and some type of transitional foreclosure protection for all those negative-equity people would need to be rolled out in the interim, during the transition. This is the obvious "free market" solution but it's politically painful. It may also be the only solution that'll really work at this point, if only you can survive the mobs of angry homeowners seeing their (undeserved and ill-gotten) life savings evaporate as real estate prices come back to the real world. Also, the Feds may have to write down much of FHA, Fannie and Freddie's portfolio and then pass those writedowns onto consumers as partial mortgage write-offs (in real terms, this cost is just accounting if those mortgages are in payment default anyway), as housing valuations come home to earth. Personally, I like this solution best but the torches and pitchforks present an almost unsurmountable challenge.

    2. Bill Gross' suggestion (kind of echoed by Krugman): nationalize the entire Federal mortgage subsidy system, effectively moving toward the Swedish model. When you go to the bank now and inquire about mortgages, what they offer you is really not a Chase or HSBC mortgage at all, but rather a 90%+ Federally subsidized product (assuming you qualify at all under the new rules), which in turn artificially props up housing values and, quite possibly, diminishes housing affordability. Gross and Krugman appear to be suggesting that we take advantage of this dire situation to simply remove the middle-man. You borrow money directly from the government, and the public system would charge premia to consumers at rates which would assure its own fiscal solvency. The problem with this approach is while it makes sense in a Utopian sense (and a financial one as well), there is no real evidence that government knows how to act as a mortgage lender to consumers.. or would do it any better than the private sector banks. Private banks would, of course, lobby against this with all their billions. That and I suspect Teabaggers would stage a coup or at least riot in the streets. Of course, then we would have an excuse to shoot them.

    3. Does securitization need to be reexamined? Can it be eliminated? What would replace it? Clearly, in a fully nationalized guarantee or direct mortgage system, securitizaton wouldn't be needed or would shrink to only that portion of the mortgage market which would be based on private-sector activity (a portion which does not seem to exist at all, in fact, today), but securitization, if it works correctly, encourages liquidity and lowers the cost of borrowing to the end consumer in theory.

    4. Do we need to restrict the availability of debt to one home per purchaser, like the Chinese are now proposing to do? This would remove speculative activity (which will return once the market recovers), increasing affordability, and would decrease the strain on both the banks and the subsidized guarantee system. But again, liquidity could decrease. Also, much of the prospection would be taken out of the pricing mechanism, making price-discovery more difficulty in some areas.

    5. Is home ownership overrated? Should we focus our efforts on creating a new system that provides financing to landlords instead of to homeowners? Should the Feds use all the money they're dumping into the dysfunctional guarantee system into direct housing construction and management? Or in giving funds to states and localities to resurrect their big mid-century housing authorities? Should government be our landlords? Can large portions of the subsidized consumer mortgage guarantee system be replaced by expanded developer tax credits for affordable housing?

    6. Something in between.

    Finally, assuming that we don't do something like #1, should public sector engagement/subsidy encourage people to live a certain way? Higher densities, TODs, sustainability/energy efficiency standards, etc, etc., by steering guarantees and other subsidies toward ideal forms (to be clear, this has been the case in the past, at least from the 1950s to the 1990s,with a clear regulatory preference for low density strip mall suburbia.. and quasi-redlining for everybody else).

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Cismontane; 13 Oct 2010 at 12:22 PM.

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    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    I have very hardline opinions on this subject that I'm sure some will disagree with. 20% down minimum, regardless of loan program. Not everyone should own a single family home, period.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

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    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    I have very hardline opinions on this subject that I'm sure some will disagree with. 20% down minimum, regardless of loan program. Not everyone should own a single family home, period.
    Hey I make $8 an hour how am I going to get my chance at buying a $400,000 house in an affluent neighborhood under those rules!
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  4. #4
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Hey I make $8 an hour how am I going to get my chance at buying a $400,000 house in an affluent neighborhood under those rules!
    Duh, become a squatter on the property for 12 years. Sheesh...
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Hey I make $8 an hour how am I going to get my chance at buying a $400,000 house in an affluent neighborhood under those rules!

    hmm.. I think we're proposing that you become a renter...or, better yet, stay at home with the 'rents, so to speak

    You know that moving back in with the parents is the fastest growing housing alternative for Americans between 20 and 35 right? .. that and the fact intergenerational wealth transfer may be the sole remaining financing source for most. 'tis what a broken system looks like.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    I have very hardline opinions on this subject that I'm sure some will disagree with. 20% down minimum, regardless of loan program. Not everyone should own a single family home, period.
    I'm curious as to your thinking on this. What does the 20% down indicate aside from the obvious ability to save? I tend to agree that home ownership is not necessary for everyone - it's just been marketed relentlessly to us as a society. I just don't see the larger down in and of itself solving lots of problems. I guess that ultimately I don't really think that the "system" is necessarily as "broken" as all that. Real Estate was artificially inflated by almost everyone involved, and the entire system associated with it is now undergoing the pain of contraction.
    " It doesn't take all kinds.....that's a lie the weirdos started." - Madam President

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    I'm curious as to your thinking on this. What does the 20% down indicate aside from the obvious ability to save? I tend to agree that home ownership is not necessary for everyone - it's just been marketed relentlessly to us as a society. I just don't see the larger down in and of itself solving lots of problems. I guess that ultimately I don't really think that the "system" is necessarily as "broken" as all that. Real Estate was artificially inflated by almost everyone involved, and the entire system associated with it is now undergoing the pain of contraction.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the combination of the Federal mortgage guarantees, the mortgage interest deduction and the low downpayment requirements together may have contributed significantly to the price inflation bubbles you mentioned. Effectively, a personal credit score was substituting for equity capital, facilitating decisionmaking that made sense from the perspective of any one consumer but not from the perspective of the system as a whole. Price discovery became almost irrelevant and valuations were defined largely by what people could borrow instead of rent-stream or, for owner-occupiers, rent-stream-opportunity-cost-based valuations. And, with credit legislation introduced progressively in the 80s, 90s and 00s, people could and would, increasingly, use that logic to borrow up to threshholds that left no margin for error or buffer against the market (that is, people were buying in at leverage ratios that were, already, at the cusp of negative equity, by definition!). So, in other words, cashflow-based valuation was gradually replaced with credit-based (or rather credit-capacity-based) valuation, and the form of financing available became the main thing dictating housing valuations right up to the personal credit limit. Remember, finance 101 says that, in a healthy economy, the worth of an asset is established independently from the means for paying for that asset, whilst in an unhealthy one, financial consideratons alter or influence values in the real economy. Functioning correctly, real estate - even personal housing - is supposed to be a cashflow game, not a credit-driven capital appreciation game (to contradict Donald Trump's philosophy here). The latter view of real estate is what leads to bubbles.

    Increasing the required equity contribution and eliminating the mortgage tax deduction will help reduce such finance-driven (as opopsed to value-driven) consumer behavior, and people who shouldn't be buying in the first place won't be able to. If you instituted a 20% requirement and eliminated the mortgage interest deduction (in other words, Canada), youI believe you'll see the risk of bubbles go down (although the adjustment in valuations will be painful). And heck, slap a sales or value-added tax on home sales too, to further discourage speculative exchanges. But remember, Canada (which has all three of these things) has a rate of home ownership that is comparable to many US regions.. since more affordable valuations in the real economy mean more people can buy, even with the higher downpayment, the lack of a mortgage tax benefit, and their transaction sales tax. ..and there's a much lower risk of bubbles, at least from this source.
    Last edited by Cismontane; 13 Oct 2010 at 5:19 PM.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    What does the 20% down indicate aside from the obvious ability to save? I tend to agree that home ownership is not necessary for everyone - it's just been marketed relentlessly to us as a society.
    If you can save it means you are disciplined with money. If you are disciplined with money you'll probably have money for house emergencies like new water heater, etc. 20% means you have a significant personal stake in keeping the property. On a $150,000 house you're not going to walk away from a $30,000 down payment but you might from $3,000 down.

    True story - I want a new $32,000 SUV and while I can afford the payments I don't have the 15% down payment without tapping into money I shouldn't use for a car. Based on the mortgage model I should be able to afford it and put just $960 down but based on vehicle loans they won't loan 97% of the value to me. In simple terms - I can't afford a new car.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    If you can save it means you are disciplined with money. If you are disciplined with money you'll probably have money for house emergencies like new water heater, etc. 20% means you have a significant personal stake in keeping the property. .
    Point taken. It's not really even a debate that so many mortgages are in default is becasue of what you've outlined here and what Cismontane has elaborated on above. No doubt. Everything about the process had to do with the sell, and no regard for the long-term. I guess what I'm saying is do we really have to "figure out" how to fix this? Isn't it self-correcting to the more stringent lending terms that will make it stable? Finance is not my thing, so this discussion is very informative to me.
    " It doesn't take all kinds.....that's a lie the weirdos started." - Madam President

  10. #10
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ursus View post
    I guess what I'm saying is do we really have to "figure out" how to fix this? Isn't it self-correcting to the more stringent lending terms that will make it stable? Finance is not my thing, so this discussion is very informative to me.
    People worry far too much. It's all political because everyone wants to be the savior - we've been through hard times before and we've gotten through it. We've had wars and we've gotten over it. People worry way too much about "right NOW". The market will figure itself out without constant government intervention and new programs, incentives, etc. All this worrying does it next time anything minor happens we'll need to immediately correct it or else the WORLD WILL END.

    If you can relate to this personally, I bet the week before a surgery was worrisome but 6 months later its just a blip on the radar. If in 2008 when people were running scared about the stock market they would have just left their money there it would all be fine.

    We live in a world of self-fulfilling prophecy.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    ha ha ha.....whatever

    20% down only??? Sure, if we continue to force boom bust economics If "they" accepted a solidly consistent 1%-4% growth rate, decent and fair returns on investment and were weened off the get rich quick at everyone else's expense schemes, 3%-5% down would work just fine

    Kind of hard (impossible) for anyone in the bottom 80% of the wealth chart to amass enough cash for a 20% down payment. I only know a couple of people that were able to put a full 20% down on a house and even they had "other" sources of wealth outside of job income to draw upon for the purchase (inheritance, property sale, family loans...) and no other income drains like kids, health problems, non-salaried jobs)

    The expectation of double digit returns is the real problem.
    On the ground, protecting the Cyburbia Shove since 2004.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    20% down only??? Sure, if we continue to force boom bust economics If "they" accepted a solidly consistent 1%-4% growth rate, decent and fair returns on investment and were weened off the get rich quick at everyone else's expense schemes, 3%-5% down would work just fine

    Kind of hard (impossible) for anyone in the bottom 80% of the wealth chart to amass enough cash for a 20% down payment
    my point is a different one. 20% of what? 5% of $400,000 is the same as 20% of $100,000. My point is, maybe that house shoudn't be $400,000, it should be $100,000. Or better yet, developers should be building, for that particular consumer, $100,000 product instead of $400,000 product and that consumer just has to live with a small apartment as opposed to an 8000 square feet mcmansion.

    Ordinarily, I'd agree with Stroskey. The system should fix itself. But at this moment in time, we have valuations wildly out of wack, products not suited to the people who should be buying them and virtually ZERO private sector financing available - as in FHA/Freddie and Fannie is fully 90% of all dollars financed in mortgages issued since the beginning of 2006. For clarity, this means that there is effectively no functioning private sector housing finance system in the US right now.

    This is a planning question - because it suggests the possibility that the wrong mechanisms are being subsidized by the Federal government, under its rules, to provide the wrong product. Goldstein's numbers (now being bandied about by the WH) appear to suggest at least the possibility that there is no financially viable single family product being built in the US, period full stop... as least no product being paid for with mortgages. Basically, these numbers are a Smartgrowther's wet dream - it means Federal debt issuance is the only thing that still enables mcmansions and other suburban single family units to get built. If this is true, the possibility exists, and we stop making these subsidies available, every city in the land may as well rezone, say 80% of all that unbuilt1 to 8 to an acre area into parkland, and 20% into multi-unit TODs.. 'cause the single family stuff is basically now just a welfare entitlement for the rich.

    My fear is that you can't really expect something that's failed so utterly as to be non-existent to fix itself.. not without a double dip recession and more economic pain than 1933. Right now, the government owns the entire US housing sector not financed with owner cash, in terms of both new-build and secondary market product. All this pickup in housing starts and new mortgage applications the media has been trumpeting over the last 2 or 3 months appears to be fully financed by Uncle Sam.. your Federal stimulus debt at work.
    Last edited by Cismontane; 13 Oct 2010 at 6:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Linda_D's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    20% down only??? Sure, if we continue to force boom bust economics If "they" accepted a solidly consistent 1%-4% growth rate, decent and fair returns on investment and were weened off the get rich quick at everyone else's expense schemes, 3%-5% down would work just fine

    Kind of hard (impossible) for anyone in the bottom 80% of the wealth chart to amass enough cash for a 20% down payment. I only know a couple of people that were able to put a full 20% down on a house and even they had "other" sources of wealth outside of job income to draw upon for the purchase (inheritance, property sale, family loans...) and no other income drains like kids, health problems, non-salaried jobs)

    The expectation of double digit returns is the real problem.
    This was the real cause of the "housing bubble". Too many people were using their homes not as homes but as investment vehicles. Cash out the equity in your current home to buy a bigger one or finance a second one or get money to invest in stocks or FL condos or a new Lexus. It didn't matter if you'll have a $2500 a month payment int 3 years and only make $4000 a month in salary today because you'll probably be making much more in 3 years, and anyways, "you can always sell it for a lot more than you paid for it".

    FTR, many markets never experienced a big run up in prices. Those markets have not seen massive foreclosures nor precipitous price declines and homes continue to sell.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Linda_D View post
    FTR, many markets never experienced a big run up in prices. Those markets have not seen massive foreclosures nor precipitous price declines and homes continue to sell.
    yes! and this is exactly why the crisis smay actually be fixable - most of the country (in terms of voters) aren't really part of the bubble. one has to take this account of course, but, frankly, I still find the Canadian system and its attendant land-use mix to be much healthier in the longterm.

    I would say that the mechanism started breaking down a long time before the price runup on the two coasts really kicked in. The runup - itself a byproduct of the system's problems - helped conceal the mess for a few decades precisely because people were leveraging home equity in the way you described. Not so anymore.

    The sad thing is, many regions, where valuations aren't that wildly out of wack today, are still suffering from the consequences of what happened in hotter markets - it does not appear that the private sector (non-FHA/Freddie/Fannie) money is present there today, any more than it is in the more dramatic problem markets. This suggests that the underlying structural problem is everywhere, not just in places like Florida, California, Nevada, etc. I drove around Essex and Hudson Counties in NJ last week, for work, and was absolutely astounded at the number of foreclosure sale signs up. They were everywhere.
    Last edited by Cismontane; 13 Oct 2010 at 6:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    I can't really add much to the actual discussion about how to fix the system, but I add my experience as a talking point.

    My wife and I will be closing on a house in about one week. We purposely did a 3.5% FHA mortgage. But we did this as a hedge instead of maximum leveraging. We bought a place that is affordable on my income (the only household income), but we didn't feel it was financially prudent for us to put an additional 16.5% in downpayment, if we didn't have to although we can from our savings.

    As a conservative financial decision we decided it was better to keep as much as possible in savings for the "in case ofs". My car is oldish and will likely need to be replaced and there is always something that happens once you move into a new house (like our 22 yr old water heater that we proactively replacing with a tankless).

    Therefore, we used the system to our benefit as prudent savers, rather than using the system to fully leverage ourselves. But I agree the system overall is geared toward assest appreciation as opposed to the more suitable equity creation.

    I think, though, the government intervention after the market meltdown in late 2008 was necessary this time, because it would have been really bad to let the panic search for the bottom.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

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    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Duh, become a squatter on the property for 12 years. Sheesh...
    In case you did not realize this, this was total sarcasm. I bought my first home and put down 10 percent. I later found that PMI was the devil. I made triple payments until I could prove that I had enough invested in the home so that I could drop PMI. I do not understand those who take out two mortgages to pay for homes that they have no reason to be looking at in the first place.

    It is irresponsible of both the borrow and the lender to think such practices are appropriate. If you can't save up 20 percent, then what are you going to do when your paying 40-50 percent of your income towards your mortgage, taxes, and insurance and you have to replace your roof??
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    In case you did not realize this, this was total sarcasm.
    So was mine
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with the American housing system, outside of the recent subprime nonsense.

    What we need to fix is the brainwashing that society does by insisting that a single-family home on a 1/4 acre lot is the "American Dream".

    This created the subprime nonsense.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  19. #19
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    So was mine
    clearly so were mine in reference to 'baggers and torches and pitchforks

  20. #20
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    There's nothing wrong with the American housing system, outside of the recent subprime nonsense.

    What we need to fix is the brainwashing that society does by insisting that a single-family home on a 1/4 acre lot is the "American Dream".

    This created the subprime nonsense.
    Actually, I woud argue it goes much further and much deeper than that. The subprime crisis exposed a lot of things wrong with the system, but, as it is, the crisis goes far beyond subprime borrowers now. My original post was prompted by Treasury Undersecretary Jeffrey Goldstein's recent comments that DoTr surveillance indicates that Federal mortgage guarantees accounted, since 2006, for 90% of the amount lent under all newly originated mortgages. In other words, at the present time, there is, for all intents and purposes, no private sector consumer housing market in the US. Not just no subprime market, no market at all.. at least no market not based on cash on-the-barrel. The only market financing available is for developers constructing rentals. Even as consumer mortgage applications and housing starts have started to recover, banks still aren't lending their own money. They're only lending the government's money.

    You're right that the problem goes back to single family product, but it isn't just for subprime borrowers. It is now clear that this type of product isn't financeable anymore. Perhaps it never was financeable at the valuations things were being sold at, if you took away the public-sector loan guarantees. In other words, not only did the mortgage market blow up for single family homes, it's now unclear whether that market and that product could've existed in the first place without the Federal subsidy.. at least since the mid-to-late 1990s in many of the regions that saw housing valuations increase at rates higher than inflation.

    Basically, it is now apparent that the public purse paid for something like 80% to 85% of that runup, in terms of new mortgages originated. That isn't a subprime problem. To my admittedly biased way of looking at it, some $12 trillion in public funds and their opportunity costs were effectively diverted for the (wholly unnecessary) benefit of private individuals, to buy them single family homes that never would've existed in the first place had it not been for the diversion. In short, it seems to me that public funds were used to bid up much of the property value inflation experienced on the two coasts and, in turn, caused the subprime crisis on the much smaller portion of that appreciation that came from direct private sector financing (on the backs of the subsidies). So we got unaffordable housing, a subprime crisis, and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, and now it turns out that the full faith and credit of the US Treasury was used to precipitate it all. At best this is the worst example of government waste imaginable. At worst it's the mother of all ponzi schemes. The numbers look pretty grim no matter how you cut them.

    This raises some key planning questions: if banks won't use (and haven't been using) their own money to finance the purchase by end consumers of single family homes, then why do we have any land still zoned for such unfinanceable things? Shouldn't we just cancel any unbuilt entitlements, at least in those areas that saw the runaway price inflation? It shouldn't matter that consumers want that type of product if there does not exist a way for anybody who doesn't have $500,000 in cash under their mattress to pay for 'em. Either upzone to something that is financially viable or downzone to zero.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian
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    NY Times article

    This piece, from earlier this year, is useful in explaining (more comprehensibly than my own attempts) the crux of the problem, and suggests the same thing - perhaps we need to consider the unthinkable: dismantling the Federal guarantee system.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/ma...ob-wwln-t.html

    It concludes:
    "America may want a private mortgage market, or it might want the security of a subsidized market. What every administration since L.B.J.’s has coveted and what has always been a lie is that we can get a subsidized market free. "

    I do find it amusing that the "ads by Google" box at the top of this page has TWO ads trying to sell me subsidized FHA loans (up to $729,000! $0 down!)
    Last edited by Cismontane; 14 Oct 2010 at 3:50 PM.

  22. #22
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Ok, maybe the Canadian system would be better, but the question (politically) is did the Canadians ever have a system similar to ours?

    If not, they never had a chance to know otherwise, whereas the USA has the system deeply established in our national, state, and local economies and the national pysche. The battle to drastically change the system (at least take away the tax deductions) will be Armageddon.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

  23. #23
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Ok, maybe the Canadian system would be better, but the question (politically) is did the Canadians ever have a system similar to ours?
    I would assume that there are lots of pitfalls to home ownership in Canada as well. The Canadian system would have you renting your tankless water heater from the utility.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  24. #24
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    I would assume that there are lots of pitfalls to home ownership in Canada as well. The Canadian system would have you renting your tankless water heater from the utility.
    I'm sure there are, but as far as I can tell, their system (and their country) is still solvent.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian
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    interesting graphic from VisualEconomics


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