Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Are the sun-belt cities into the Mexican look?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229

    Are the sun-belt cities into the Mexican look?

    Does anyone know why the sun-belt cities use alot of single story storefronts like this?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3817596...22596/sizes/o/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3817596...23692/sizes/o/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3817596...15347/sizes/m/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3817596...15341/sizes/o/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3817596...15335/sizes/o/

    But the non sun-belt cities did not like to use too much of this single story store-fronts.Also the sun-belt cities use alot of bungalow,ranch homes and apartments under 6 story .Well the non sun-belt cities use alot of 2 story homes also more apartments 15 to 20 story high or more.

    Was this the Mexican look? I know Los Angeles ,Phoenix and very much so Albuquerque is into this type of look.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,247
    I'm not surprised in the least. Considering most of these cities used to be in Mexico, what would you expect?
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Rygor's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Posts
    2,346
    I think it is just a refelction of the local histories of those places, and in some cases the architectural styles can be part of functional adaptations to the climate or a result of using locally plentiful building materials.
    "When life gives you lemons, just say 'No thanks'." - Henry Rollins

  4. #4
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,904
    Rygor is right. But be careful how you state things. In Albuquerque, you will catch a lot of flack if you call this a "Mexican" look. These styles first emerged during the Spanish colonial era in the southwest with regional variations as I think we have touched on in related threads (in Southern CA you are more likely to see tiled roofs whereas in New Mexico, it will be flat roof, Pueblo style, possibly with parapets and canales to move water runoff away from the building's walls). New Mexicans do not generally like their history conflated with Mexico's as they were only a Mexican Territory for 26 years. There is the pre-colonial period, the New Spain era and the American period and that is what most will focus on as the influential eras in development. Certainly the flow of migration during New Spain was north from Mexico City, but that was before "Mexico" existed and the territory of New Mexico was at the time very isolated and people pride themselves on their regional styles.

    In general, these styles use earth-based materials (adobe and later cinder block or other CMUs) and often flat roofs. Today, even a frame house is usually stuccoed to give the look of an earthen structure. Height is also a contentious issue here in Albuquerque. If you really want to rile up the local population, go into a neighborhood and tell them that you are going to increase density and see what happens. People are very afraid of multiple stories beyond 2. I think perhaps because historically it has not been the standard and also because the landscape itself is very horizontally oriented and people value a connection with that - they want to be able to see that wide open space even from their home or yard.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In a 480 square foot ex baseball nacho stand
    Posts
    7,692
    In Florida there was a predominant architectual style called Mediterainean Revival (or MedRev for short) in the 1920s thru 1940s. There is now a sense if revival (so to say) of that style in new construction. I would say that's hardly a "Mexican" look.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  6. #6
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2007
    Location
    more West now
    Posts
    3,249
    many parts of Florida were settled by the Spanish, many of the names of places, geographic features, etc reflect that heritage. Early architectural styles reflect locally available materials and needs. For example, before everyone had central air, houses were constructed so air flowed through them.
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  7. #7
    Cyburbia Administrator
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,658
    Blog entries
    3
    What everybody else said.

    Also, as Mexican-Americans and Mexican immigrants replace Anglos in sme neighborhoods in large cities in the American Southwest, some existing commercial buildings in those areas are altered. Brick is covered over with stucco or concrete, display windows replaced with smaller windows, and walls are repainted in bright primary colors.

    Even in areas that haven't experienced demographic changes, mercantile-style commercial buildings were altered through the years to appear more "Southwestern". There's more examples than I can count in Santa Fe and Las Cruces. Go to Las Cruces, and compare a 1970s-era shopping plaza with a newer shopping center; the old plazas will look like any other plaza in the Northeastern US, while the new shopping centers will be in-your-face Spanish, Pueblo or Territorial style.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  8. #8
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229
    Rygor is right. But be careful how you state things. In Albuquerque, you will catch a lot of flack if you call this a "Mexican" look. These styles first emerged during the Spanish colonial era in the southwest
    Is that do to Spain imperialism had Mexico under it control or with the US having Albuquerque under its control than Mexico ?


    with regional variations as I think we have touched on in related threads (in Southern CA you are more likely to see tiled roofs whereas in New Mexico, it will be flat roof, Pueblo style, possibly with parapets and canales to move water runoff away from the building's walls).
    Is the Spanish colonial look different than Mexico look? What about the Mexico look and California look?


    New Mexicans do not generally like their history conflated with Mexico's as they were only a Mexican Territory for 26 years. There is the pre-colonial period, the New Spain era and the American period and that is what most will focus on as the influential eras in development.
    How long did Albuquerque or the state of New Mexico was under Mexico control?

    Also, as Mexican-Americans and Mexican immigrants replace Anglos in sme neighborhoods in large cities in the American Southwest, some existing commercial buildings in those areas are altered. Brick is covered over with stucco or concrete, display windows replaced with smaller windows, and walls are repainted in bright primary colors.

    What are earthen structure? So the mercantile-style commercial buildings where more into people living above the store and Spanish, Pueblo or Territorial style where into the single story storefronts .

  9. #9
    Cyburbia Administrator
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,658
    Blog entries
    3
    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    Is the Spanish colonial look different than Mexico look? What about the Mexico look and California look?

    [snip]

    What are earthen structure? So the mercantile-style commercial buildings where more into people living above the store and Spanish, Pueblo or Territorial style where into the single story storefronts .
    Earthen structure: traditionally adobe, but now rammed earth and straw bale are becoming more common. Today, most new earthen structures are in exurban developments on larger acreage parcels. Closer to town, it's frame with an earthen appearance.

    From Mesilla, New Mexico, just outside of Las Cruces.




    A more "Western" mercantile-style building on the left.


    Includes a mercantile-style building.


    Territorial-style structure on right


    Territorial-style structure on left.


    Mercantile on right, adobe on left.





    Residential delopment in Las Cruces.


    Rammed earth or adobe.


    Contemporary New Mexico-style house with Pueblo and Mediterranean influences.


    Mix of styles typically found in Southern New Mexico.


    Pueblo-style apartment complex.


    More Mediterranean/California influenced design.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  10. #10
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
    Registered
    May 2005
    Location
    New Town
    Posts
    3,904
    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    Is that do to Spain imperialism had Mexico under it control or with the US having Albuquerque under its control than Mexico ?
    I'm not sure I understand your question. But the distinction between New Mexico Spanish folks and Mexicans is simply a point of regional pride that runs through many aspects of cultural expression. And its true, especially in the early colonial period, that New Mexico was a very isolated part of New Spain. It was remote, hard to access and architecturally had to use local resources almost exclusively. Later, when the railroad came and the area was a US Territory, for example, people had access to dimensional lumber and that had an impact on aspects of building style (window and door trim, for example, as well as new building approaches like framing).

    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    Is the Spanish colonial look different than Mexico look? What about the Mexico look and California look?
    None of these areas or eras had one "look," though the NM question is probably easiest to answer. This era was dominated by the Pueblo style of building - flat roofs with parapets and canales to manage water runoff. Roof trusses, such as they were, took the form of rough hewn logs called vigas which are visible inside the building and sometimes penetrate the outside as well. Walls were constructed of adobe bricks, locally made, and covered with a natural plaster that had to be removed and redone every year or every other year.

    But even within this general style, many forms can be found. For example, in areas prone to attack by native groups, the windows tended to go almost to the ground (so folks couldn't sneak up below the sill). Also, wealthier people might construct the structure in a U shape to create a central courtyard planted with vegetation and with doors opening onto it from all sides to promote natural cooling. Poorer folks generally made a single room and then added rooms as they had resources to do so, making for more of a piecemeal approach to housing construction.

    But this is all just in the colonial period. Since then, so many influences have come in, blended and been revived that one cannot identify any one style. Dan's awesome images, from southern New Mexico (where one will see more Mexican influence), shows this mix very well. You can see styles and materials that came from the east with railroad, older approaches, new techniques etc. all mixed together. I see a lot of Texas in those plaza buildings in particular. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that Mesilla's plaza is setup on the Texas courthouse square model.

    I will also note that while some of the housing images appear to be adobe, or rammed earth, or something similar, they may in fact be framed (faux-dobe) and just plastered to look like an earthen home. That is a style that predominates and is actually in the 1950s zoning code for Santa Fe that defines all structures in that town. By law, almost everything is plastered.

    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    How long did Albuquerque or the state of New Mexico was under Mexico control?
    26 lawless and confused years.

    Quote Originally posted by nec209 View post
    What are earthen structure? So the mercantile-style commercial buildings where more into people living above the store and Spanish, Pueblo or Territorial style where into the single story storefronts .
    Adobe bricks are constructed of clay-rich soil made into blocks and dried in the sun. Its really just dirt. I abstracted this sense of a heavy massed wall to be "earthen" which probably isn't accurate, but I was referring to adobe, brick and cinder block as opposed to frame structures.

    I think you are trying too hard to create definitive categories of styles in this part of the country. The area was influenced by many approaches. It was the wild west and many entrepreneurial and enterprising folks tried many things, influenced by wherever they happened to come from. A look at the Santa Fe plaza buildings will reveal the same diverse mix of styles you see in Mesilla. Its a crazy, mixed up place.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  11. #11
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229
    You see those building styles are into the flat look and spread out look.

    Also if you know of any books that talk about these styles or any building styles please post it.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229
    I just uploaded some pictures in the gallery of pictures of stores in LA. I'm not sure what building type this is or if there are 2 or 3 building styles .Has you can see in google street view I took most of these buildings are 1 story and only some 2 story

    It is mostly a norm that 99% of the stores people live above the store in Toronto here and the building look older here than those pictures .

    The pictures are in..
    Home Cities and Places United States California - Los Angeles / Long Beach / Inland Empire

    http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/show...y.php/cat/6209


    I'm not sure why they built like that or when they built that .The thing is we don't see buildings like that in Toronto.

    Was this built in the 30's and 40's? For some reason Toronto did not want 1 story buildings like this .


    Note when you look at those pictures it may be the Los Angeles streetcar suburb is why they built like that..
    Last edited by nec209; 20 Nov 2010 at 2:14 PM.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian mike gurnee's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 1998
    Location
    Greensburg, Kansas
    Posts
    2,988
    nec, that style is so common place in the states. From the 1920s to today.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian chupacabra's avatar
    Registered
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    274
    I always thought that cheap land values plus lots of growth in the age of the auto was the reason behind the predominance of single story buildings.
    You can grow ideas in the garden of your mind.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally posted by mike gurnee View post
    nec, that style is so common place in the states. From the 1920s to today.
    They do in Canada and in the US but Toronto and Quebec City seem to have banned that time of building .People live above store or there is office above store and streets are small and the building look older.

    It more common in the sun belt cities those 1 story buildings.

    This is what you get in Toronto http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfitzg/...049045/detail/
    And
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfitzg/...detail/?page=2

  16. #16
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    229
    This may be why a lack of skyscrapers and people living above stores in LA .

    The flat spread out look.



    The first height limit ordnance in Los Angeles was enacted following the completion of the 13-story Continental Building, located at the southeast corner of 4th and Spring streets. The purpose of the height limit was to limit the density of the city. There was great hostility to skyscrapers in many cities in these years, mainly due to the congestion they could bring to the streets, and height limit ordinances were a common way of dealing with the problem. In 1911, the city passed an updated height limit ordinance, establishing a specific limit of 150 feet (46 m). Exceptions were granted for decorative towers such as those later built on the Eastern Columbia Building and United Artists Theatre, as well as the now-demolished Richfield Tower.[citation needed]

    Though it is commonly believed that the height limits were imposed due to the risk of earthquakes, such limits were actually enacted to allow California's natural sunlight to penetrate to sidewalk level, avoiding the "urban canyon" effects of New York and Chicago. It is notable that the first limit was imposed in 1904,[45] two years before the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, and that even after that seismic event it was believed that Southern California was not subject to such violent temblors, despite evidence to the contrary.

    The 1911 ordinance was repealed in 1957. The first private building to exceed the old limit was the 18-story California Bank Building, located at the southeast corner of 6th and Spring streets

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Los_Angeles









    Also the downtown area is far away from the lake !! And most people want to live my the lake or hills.Along with the Mexican look.I mean if you go to Mexico they are into the flat spread out look very open for sun and blue sky.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Hello from the corn Belt
    Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 4
    Last post: 23 May 2011, 1:45 PM
  2. Buffalo's Bungalow Belt
    Cities and Places
    Replies: 8
    Last post: 21 Nov 2007, 6:38 PM
  3. Replies: 47
    Last post: 03 Aug 2006, 6:30 PM
  4. Mexican Planning
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 3
    Last post: 24 Jun 2005, 2:58 AM
  5. Best Mexican Eats
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 31
    Last post: 18 Feb 2005, 2:22 PM