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Thread: America's most forgotten cities

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    America's most forgotten cities

    There's many cities on the map that, in reality, are practically invisible. They have a much lower stature among American cities than their size would suggest, almost to the point where they're forgotten. They almost never make the news, they have no iconic institutions, and many people in the country might not even know that the place actually exists. There are places where a fugitive might run to, because nobody would even think of looking for someone there.

    A few that come to mind:

    Wichita Falls, Texas. Among the fourth-tier Texas cities of Abeline, Waco, Tyler, College Station, and Beaumont, Wichita Falls is ... well, I don't know. The entire time I lived in Austin, I never heard the place mentioned once.

    Farmington, New Mexico. It's one of the largest cities in the state, behind Albuquerque, Las Cruces and Santa Fe, but even New Mexicans seem unaware of its existence. It's tucked away in the far northwestern part of the state, hours away from the Interstate system and any cities of a similar or larger size.

    Medford, Oregon. I don't know what else to say about it. When you think about cities in Oregon, lots of places come to mind: Portland, Bend, Salem, Eugene, and Corvallis. Medford is larger than many of the places I just mentioned, but I never think of it when thinking of Oregon. I've never heard anyone else mention it, either.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    When I Hear the name Wichita Falls I immediately associate it with the massive tornado that struck there, many moons ago.

    Some others.....

    Juneau, AK
    Panhandle capitol, off the beaten path, eclipsed by Anchorage and (lately) Wasilla.

    Bethlehem, PA
    As the steel-producing industry has changed so has hearing this city's name uttered. Exit stature.

    Superior, WI
    Duluth, MN dominates most conversations. We say "Twin Ports" but really mean just Duluth. Definitely "in the shadow".

    Last year this list would have included Lima, OH. But the city's name is oft-spoke because it is the home of fictional William McKinley High School......brought to fame via the very successfull TV program Glee. The comments about Lima that are made on the program don't help Lima's image, though.

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    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Decatur, Illinois - A fairly large city with over 80,000 people, yet a city that nobody seems to care about. It is outshined by other downstate cities like the college towns (Bloomington, Champaign), the capital (Springfield), and Peoria. The HQ for agribusiness Archer Daniels Midland is here, but you probably wouldn't know that unless I told you.

    Dothan, Alabama - A pretty big city in Alabama and there's not a whole lot of nearby cities in that part of the state to compete with, yet even though it is larger than places like Auburn and Florence, it seems to take a backseat to these places.

    Pine Bluff, Arkansas - Sort of gets lost in the shuffle due to being so close to Little Rock and since it isn't touristy like Hot Springs, nobody seems to pay it any attention.
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    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Winston-Salem, NC-Despite being in the top five of population in NC, no one ever seems to mention it. We never have to go there for workshops, events, anything...its weird.

    Lakeland, FL-A sizable population and smack dab inbetween Orlando and Tampa. One would think people would talk about it more...but they don't.
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    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    Lakeland, FL-A sizable population and smack dab inbetween Orlando and Tampa. One would think people would talk about it more...but they don't.
    Lakeland is oft in my vocabulary. A good friend lives there AND it is the long-time home of spring training for my Detroit Tigers.

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    Winston-Salem, NC-Despite being in the top five of population in NC, no one ever seems to mention it. We never have to go there for workshops, events, anything...its weird.
    Add nearby Greensboro. Here in Buffalo, where it seems like North Carolina is the favorite destination of ex-pats, I've never heard the Triad area mentioned. It's Charlotte, Raleigh, Charlotte, Cary, Charlotte, Asheville, Charlotte, Fayetteville, Charlotte, Wilmington and Charlotte. W-S and Greensboro seem like the largest of the forgotten cities.

    FWIW, I once drove through Greensboro. The built environment seemed far more "Southern" -- e.g. no shortage of billboards and tall signs -- than Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham.

    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Dothan, Alabama - A pretty big city in Alabama and there's not a whole lot of nearby cities in that part of the state to compete with, yet even though it is larger than places like Auburn and Florence, it seems to take a backseat to these places.
    Dothan is somewhat famous among Jews because there's a standing offer to pay $50,000 to Jewish families that move to the city.

    My Dad was there once for some kind of tobacco conference. One time, he said "Why don't you move to Dothan?", and I thought "Where the hell is that?" Otherwise, yeah, it's a forgotten city.

    Another forgotten fourth-tier Texas city: Longview. Looking at Google Maps, it seems like a massive "town next door", full of businesses related to trucks, construction equipment, and other RUGGED! pursuits. On the ground, it looks like a mess even by Texas standards. As with Wichita Falls, I never heard anyone mention Longview the entire time I lived in Austin.

    For Canadian cities, I'd say that at least among Americans, it's the smaller second-tier cities in Quebec that are largely forgotten, Sherbrooke, Trois-Rivieres, Drummondville and Saguenay. More Americans probably know about places like Saskatoon, Barrie, Sudbury and Lethbridge than the Quebec equivalents.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Springfield, MO. Overshadowed by St. Louis, Kansas City, Columbia/Jefferson City, Hannibal (due to Mark Twain and M*A*S*H*''s Col. Potter), even Joplin (thanks to its mention in the song "Get Your Kicks on Route 66" and the show Trick My Truck) on the national scale of Missouri cities, and it's probably the 3rd "Springfield" that would step into ones' mind after the fictional one in The Simpsons and either Springfield, IL or Springfield, MA (depending on where you live).

    Roanoke, VA. Aside from the DC area and larger cities like Richmond and the scattering in the Hampton Roads, people are more likely to be familiar with Lynchburg (due to its association with evangelicals). Even as far as regional Appalachian towns it's overshadowed in terms of national exposure by Asheville, NC.

    Macon, GA. Everyone knows Atlanta, Augusta (due to the Masters), Savannah (due to its historical layout and architecture), Athens (due to the music scene), Columbus (due to Fort Benning), and the Albany/Americus (thanks to Jimmy Carter & family). Nobody ever hears mention of Macon outside of GA.

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    Related article -
    American Cities That Are Running Out Of People

    Flint, MI
    Cleveland, OH
    Buffalo, NY
    Dayton, OH
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Rochester, NY
    Oddball
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    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    I have a slightly different take on this.

    I see the examples so far but I don't think they are so forgotten as other places in this country. Many of the listed places have active communities and are still regional leaders in their economies.

    Forgotten cities is more like the list JNA showed (I saw that article today as well). With the exception of NOLA you have the true forgotten (and almost discarded) cities in America. Flint, Rochester, from that list, and I will also say Youngstown OH, Scranton PA, Wheeling WV, Buffalo, Detroit even. But this is just the who's who of the Rust Belt.

    So what SW/SE and Midwest cities are the forgotten ones?

    Roanoke Rapids, NC is a struggling city as many along the 95 corridor from Richmond, VA through Savannah, GA are (save Fayetteville, NC). Camden, NJ is also a city that has been on many poverty and crime lists for the past 30 years since it is in the shadows of Philadelphia and Trenton (which could also be put in this discussion).

    So what is it that makes a city forgotten? Is it a composition of declining population, increasing poverty and unemployment, all mixed with no real "it" to have pride in or anchor its citizenship around?

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    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Add nearby Greensboro. Here in Buffalo, where it seems like North Carolina is the favorite destination of ex-pats, I've never heard the Triad area mentioned. It's Charlotte, Raleigh, Charlotte, Cary, Charlotte, Asheville, Charlotte, Fayetteville, Charlotte, Wilmington and Charlotte. W-S and Greensboro seem like the largest of the forgotten cities.

    FWIW, I once drove through Greensboro. The built environment seemed far more "Southern" -- e.g. no shortage of billboards and tall signs -- than Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham.
    When I posted Winston Salem, I was thinking about the Triad in general...out of the three cities that make up the Triad...Greensboro is probably the most successful and has the brightest future. They have a growing public university, pretty innovative planning, particularly in the redevelopment arena and its centrally located in the state. Its common for us to head to Greensboro for events, trainings and the NC APA conference was there 2 years ago. Its only 1.25 hour drive from the Western part of the Triangle to Greensboro.

    In general the Triad gets overshadowed by the Triangle and Charlotte-Mec as far as people knowing the different regions/polycentric urban areas.
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    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Regarding Greensboro, Van Halen kicked off their last two tours there, so I guess it can't be that forgotten. For North Carolina, I'd probably say some place like Greenville, Goldsboro, or Wilson is more forgotten. Especially Greenville having to compete with the South Carolina city of the same name.

    With Springfield, MO, one of my college roommates was from there, so I heard about it all the time. However, it's true it is overshined by STL and KC, and particularly nearby Branson, which only has a couple thousand people but is well-known as a tourist mecca. I think Springfield is certainly more well-known than Joplin, Cape Girardeau, and St. Joseph though.

    As for the Rust Belt cities, most of those places are talked about regularly, if for no other reason than because they're so world-famous for being hit hard by tough economic times. Heck, Billy Joel wrote a song about "Allentown". And everyone knows about Flint and Detroit. So while they are losing population, they are certainly not forgotten.
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    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    For North Carolina, I'd probably say some place like Greenville, Goldsboro, or Wilson is more forgotten. Especially Greenville having to compete with the South Carolina city of the same name.
    Greenville is the home of East Carolina University and the Pitt Medical Center both of which are the pride of Eastern NC so I would disagree with that assumption. Goldsboro is just a drive through on US70 from Raleigh to the beach unless you are in the Air Force. Wilson is also just off the beaten path but I don't know that much about the town. Most Eastern Carolina towns can be thrown in this category unfortunetly; Elizabeth City, Washington, Moorehead City, Kinston, Smithfield, Clinton, etc. etc.

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    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    Lakeland, FL-A sizable population and smack dab inbetween Orlando and Tampa. One would think people would talk about it more...but they don't.
    I lived in Lakeland for a while when I was a planner working for the county there. I agree with the inclusion of Lakeland on this list... something was just missing.

    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North View post
    Lakeland is oft in my vocabulary. A good friend lives there AND it is the long-time home of spring training for my Detroit Tigers.
    I did enjoy some Tigers. On Wednesdays (or maybe it was Thursday) the Lakeland Tigers had 1$ beer night (with 5$ tix). It was a regular event on my calendar!
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

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    Cyburbian Rygor's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    Regarding Greensboro, Van Halen kicked off their last two tours there, so I guess it can't be that forgotten. For North Carolina, I'd probably say some place like Greenville, Goldsboro, or Wilson is more forgotten. Especially Greenville having to compete with the South Carolina city of the same name.

    With Springfield, MO, one of my college roommates was from there, so I heard about it all the time. However, it's true it is overshined by STL and KC, and particularly nearby Branson, which only has a couple thousand people but is well-known as a tourist mecca. I think Springfield is certainly more well-known than Joplin, Cape Girardeau, and St. Joseph though.

    As for the Rust Belt cities, most of those places are talked about regularly, if for no other reason than because they're so world-famous for being hit hard by tough economic times. Heck, Billy Joel wrote a song about "Allentown". And everyone knows about Flint and Detroit. So while they are losing population, they are certainly not forgotten.
    I hear quite a lot about Springfield, Mo, as well, as I good friend of mine is from there. But it's also quite proximate to Branson, as a "Gateway to the Ozarks", and is known as the hometown of Brad Pitt.

    I'd actually say that Jefferson City, Mo is more forgotten. Aside from it being the often-not-remembered state capital of Missouri, I've never heard anything bout it. Ever.

    I saw that Decatur, IL was mentioned earlier, but being the home of ADM, one of the biggest corporations of the world and the center of all agri-business gives it a definite distinction. It also got a lot of attention from the recent Matt Damon movie, "The Informant".

    When I think of forgotten cities, there are places like the Quad Cities which hardly anyone hears about nationally despite them being a metro area of about 400,000 people and fairly well off in these tough economic times because of the stability of it's major employers (John Deere being the biggest).

    A few others:
    LaCrosse, WI (no major college or university, not a capital of anything)

    Chattanooga, TN (bigger Appalachian city you never hear about except from the old song "Chattanooga Choo-choo")

    York, PA (used to be known as "Muscletown USA", but those days are long gone)

    Pueblo, CO (way off in the southern edge of the state away from the major Front Range cities like Denver and Fort Collins)

    Bismark, ND (overshadowed by Fargo, thanks to the Coen Brothers movie, despite the fact it's the state capital)

    Medford, OR (I agree with Dan on that one)

    Salina, KS (overshadowed by Dodge City, Wichita, KC, Manhattan, and Lawrence)
    "When life gives you lemons, just say 'No thanks'." - Henry Rollins

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    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Oh yeah.....

    Rangely Colorado- Only Zman and The One are aware of its existence.
    Rugby North Dakota
    Buffalo South Dakota
    Cheyenne Wyoming- I've always liked this City and like the fact it stays under the radar for some reason???
    Any City in Delaware
    El Paso Texas
    Bakersfield California
    Fresno California
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    Rangely Colorado- Only Zman and The One are aware of its existence.
    Cheyenne Wyoming- I've always liked this City and like the fact it stays under the radar for some reason???
    Any City in Delaware
    Fresno California
    Hey now I know about Rangely, CO - remember I lived in CO for 10 yrs.
    Agreed on the other listings.
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  17. #17
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Rygor View post
    Pueblo, CO (way off in the southern edge of the state away from the major Front Range cities like Denver and Fort Collins)
    The feel of Pueblo is also much different than the other Front Range cities. It's more of a high desert environment, and the built environment has none of the polish and refinement that is a trademark of places like Colorado Springs, Denver, its suburbs, Boulder, Fort Collins, and so on. Tons of huge signs, billboards, and the like; which are very rare elsewhere in the Front Range. Downtown Pueblo is large for a city its size, but it was almost completely abandoned as of 10 years ago. Pueblo seemed more like a mini-El Paso than anything else.

    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    El Paso Texas
    Texans were aware of El Paso, but more in the context of it being far removed from anyplace else in the state. I don't think Texans saw El Paso as being "real Texas", unlike other isolated, remote cities such as Lubbock, Amarillo, Midland or Odessa. El Paso is a city whose built environment is very Texan (tall signs, billboards, frontage roads, wide streets, brick houses, lots of concrete, street names like "Jim B. Beauregard Jr. Parkway"), but culturally it's more like a (relatively) affluent suburb of Juarez with a few displaced Anglos and some bits of token Texas culture thrown in, like a steakhouse or Whataburger here and there. When I lived in nearby Las Cruces, we called it "Hell Paso" or "El Peso".

    I always thought El Paso and Buffalo have a lot in common. Both are border towns, both are industrial, both have a large-ish working-class population, both are largely Catholic, both are strongly "ethnic" (El Paso - Mexican, Buffalo - Polish, Italian, Irish), and both are seen as not fitting in to the state they're in. The big difference: Buffalo is filled with colleges and universities, where El Paso just has UTEP. Buffalo is also an emerging financial and medical research center. Buffalo also doesn't feel like an outpost of civilization.
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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Appreciate the mention of Wichita Falls, TX. I was born in this depressed city, which draws most of what little identity it has from nearby Shepherd AFB. It has spent nearly three decades in an economic funk and can't seem to get a break. Honestly, I thought it should have received the Toyota Tundra manufacturing facility over San Antonio earlier in the decade--that would have been the first bright spot in Wichita Falls in a long time.

    BUN mentioned the tornado there... My parents moved out of an apartment and into a house only a month or two before the tornado hit. The apartment they were in was completely levelled with nothing but a few plumbing pipes left.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

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    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Buffalo also doesn't feel like an outpost of civilization.
    Not going to lie, part of El Paso's allure to a lot of folks is that very feeling. It's very much Old West, only a modern incarnation.

    (There's also some surprisingly life-filled streets in parts of downtown and surrounding neighborhoods)

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    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Sure....

    Quote Originally posted by TexanOkie View post
    (There's also some surprisingly life-filled streets in parts of downtown and surrounding neighborhoods)
    Life? Are you sure that isn't fear and despair?
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    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    Life? Are you sure that isn't fear and despair?
    Not on El Paso or Stanton Streets. El Paso Street even won one of the the APA "Great Street" awards a year or two ago. It's not gentrified, yuppie, SWPL or hipster life by any stretch of the imagination, but it definitely is life, and nobody seemed fearful and few seemed in despair. The Texas Chapter APA conference was held in El Paso in February 2009, and aside from passing around a chest cold with my coworkers, I thoroughly enjoyed the town.

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    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    I will throw in some Pacific Ocean perspective.

    Hilo, Hawaii - Once a bustling center for cultural and economic activity. This cute, quaint little city hardly gets mention from visitors or locals. A few nasty tsunami have deteriorated the infrastructure and tourists aren't fond of vacationing in rain, so at about 140" of rain per year, Hilo's economy isn't doing well.

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    Cyburbian Rygor's avatar
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    El Paso always reminds me of the quintessential "Old West" along with Tucson, AZ. Plus there is always that association with salsa "Pass, pass, pass the Old El Paso"

    Wichita Falls for me is very much on the map, but granted I fall into an odd demographic of people who care about strength sports. Wichita Falls Athletic Club is there and is owned by one of the biggest names in strength training, Mark Rippetoe. Hence it's become a sort of "mecca" for powerlifters and olympic weightlifters. I bet fewer than 1% of people know that, though.
    "When life gives you lemons, just say 'No thanks'." - Henry Rollins

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    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    As for larger USA cities, I've always looked upon Tulsa and Oklahoma City, OK as being stuck in a sort of 'empty quarter' of the USA. I wonder what percentage of NBA fans even realize that there is now a team in Oklahoma City, and of the percentage who do, how many even have any idea where it is on a map of the USA.

    Mike

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    In New York state, Rochester has a much lower profile than Buffalo, despite having a metropolitan area that's about the same size, an economic output that is slightly higher, and the presence of Kodak, Xerox and Bosch & Lomb. Why? My guesses:

    1) Up until the 1950s, the Buffalo metro area was much larger than that of Rochester. Consider that many small towns in Upstate New York have a Buffalo Street. Rochester Streets are much rarer.

    2) No Big 4 professional sports teams.

    3) Rochester has several well-regarded small-to-medium sized institutions of higher learning, but no large research or public schools (RIT has about 17,000 students; UB is approaching 30,000).

    4) Rochester never made headlines for industrial decline and urban blight until very recently. It used to be known as a very well-off but also very boring city, as opposed to blue-collar but fun Buffalo. Even today, Rochester's suburbs are much more affluent than those around Buffalo. Upscale national retail and restaurant chains usually open locations in Rochester long before they hit Buffalo.

    5) No iconic skyline or building. Rochester has a very generic 1970s-era skyline that could just as well be Dayton or Akron.

    6) North of the border, far more cable systems carry television stations from Buffalo than from Rochester.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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