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Thread: Thoughts on school reputation re: employement

  1. #1

    Thoughts on school reputation re: employement

    Hi, first time poster, need some input if you'd be so kind...

    I've applied to and been accepted to 3 urban planning master's programs: UC Irvine, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, and Cal Poly Pomona, and I'm waiting to hear back from UCLA; feel pretty confident I'll be accepted.

    I got my bachelor's 15 years ago, this is about retraining for a new career so I want to get the most bang for my buck. I want the best education for my money, but I also want the best master's degree for the job market. That might mean the most expensive school or the cheapest, I don't know.

    Obviously UCLA is the most prestigious program/school on the list, and it's also the most expensive. I want to get into as little debt as possible so really the only reason I'd choose UCLA is if the extra cost was justified in terms of employment chances after I graduate. UCI is a bit less than UCLA but they want to give me my first quarter for free (saving $5k).

    I like Cal Poly's more practical, hands-on approach/curriculum, and they are both much cheaper than either UC school, but will a degree from either Cal Poly school look mediocre to an employer?

    So overall what I'm looking for is general input regarding how much the prestige of the school matters to employers (either in the public or private sector), any ideas about the reputation of the 4 schools (and their programs) I mentioned, and just any advice related to my dilemma would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    So apparently Cal Poly Pomona- which would be the cheapest and allow my wife to work at her current job- is ranked #2 for programs that don't offer a PHD by planetizen...

    But I've never seen much mention of the program. Anyone have an idea what kind of rep it has?

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
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    Hi there!

    I'm about three months away from graduating with my MCRP from Cal Poly - SLO so I'll shed some light on my experience here.

    First, Cal Poly - Pomona is ranked #2 for schools w/o a PhD program because Cal Poly - SLO is ranked #1. Just to give you some perspective.

    Second, while UCLA may be more brand-recognizable for employers outside of California, I can assure you that Cal Poly - SLO has just as much prestige within the state. As you said, it's a very practical, hands-on curriculum and the graduates tend to be ready for the planning world and can, for the most part, hit the ground running. I know this is certainly the case for me; however, I would assume a large part of that an internship I've had since starting the program in a nearby city. Either way, there has been a lot of overlap between my internship and school curriculum so I think that speaks to the practicality of the school.

    So, to answer your initial question, no, Cal Poly - SLO will not look mediocre to potential employers, specifically those in California. I've often heard that employers are eager to higher graduates from Cal Poly - SLO because they ARE so ready to jump in feet first. You can ask me in a couple months how true this is as I search for a job

    Third, like you said, the Cal Poly's are a little bit cheaper. Especially so as the UCs recently labeled planning as a professional degree and were able to tack on a couple thousand more dollars to tuition. I may be wrong on this but I remember hearing something along those lines about a year ago. I would say the cost of living in SLO would balance it out but given that your other options are in the LA metro I can't imagine that really has any clout as an argument against SLO.

    Fourth, I really have to hand it to the faculty at Cal Poly - SLO. They have the best interests of their students in mind and it has made my experience incredibly rewarding. Many of them are well-experienced and connected in the California planning realm; their knowledge, dedication, and current/prior works have benefited the classes and studios tremendously. I can't say enough good things about them. I would recommend a visit if you're having any concerns; any professor and/or current student would be happy to make time to meet with you.

    The ONLY downside, and really... I mean the only downside to SLO is its location. While it's definitely beautiful, I would prefer it to be located closer to a metro. Yes, it's pretty much equidistant from both LA and SF but I wouldn't mind being a little closer to either one. Having said that, I don't think that makes too much of a difference in the end. You're going to get hired based on your qualifications and personality more so than whether you went to program in an urban metro. In my opinion, at least. I just make sure to keep somewhat current in the planning issues surrounding LA and SF.

    I know there are some other Cal Poly - SLO students lurking around so perhaps they can shed some more insight on the issue. Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions!

  4. #4
    Cyburbian cng's avatar
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    I'm a Cal Poly SLO MCRP grad. I was a high school science teacher before I decided to go back to grad school and become a planner. I was also trying to get the best bang for my buck, and Cal Poly SLO certainly offered it. My plan implementation class was taught by the late and great Paul Crawford, the guy who basically wrote the book on form based codes. Other classes were taught by well-trained faculty. Not to make the current job searchers feel bad... but, I got a job at a local jurisdiction a month before I graduated and started the week after I got out of school (granted this was during better days). The MCRP from SLO is highly marketable among California jurisdictions and firms, since it is known for being hands-on. Ultimately, I think your degree will "qualify" you for a job. Actually "getting" the job will be dependent on your own marketed knowledge, abilities, and skills, your experience, and portfolio, if applicable. And this is true more so for the entry-level positions than others. Once you get your foot in the door, it's really just your experience that sells you. One last thing about SLO... while it's not in a metropolitan area, you can't beat living 2 years in wonderful weather and landscape.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian
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    My impression is that UCs will give a broader, less practical approach, while the Cal Polys are more practical, and I think they tend to emphasize things like zoning and land use much more.

    If you want to work for a municipal planning department, Cal Poly will train you to do exactly that. If you're interested in other types of planning-related work, I have a hunch that a UC would be a better choice (but that's just my opinion, not substantiated by any facts)

  6. #6
    Thanks all.

    I visited Cal Poly SLO and got a really good impression. I'd be ready to choose it except for the fact it would require me and my wife moving, and her finding a new job when we've went been through unemployment hell not too long ago.

    I understand SLO has a great rep- that's all I've been hearing- but I never hear anything about Pomona. It's ranked well but does it have a good rep like SLO or do people kind of just conflate to the two?

    whyxbotherx- I want to be broadly employable. I'd like my education/knowledge base to appeal to non-profits, consulting firms, municipals, whatever. Frankly I just don't know what that means as far as which program to go with.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    No, TimJ... as I understand it there is a difference in the reputation between Pomona and SLO. When meeting with a graduate advisor, I was specifically told to include "San Luis Obispo" after "California Polytechnic State University" on my resume. This may be due to elitism based on the graduate advisor's part but it hasn't been the first time I've heard to identify Cal Poly SLO to distinguish it from Pomona based on reputation. I think SLO is a little more highly regarded but perhaps someone else can speak to this? I'm from outside of California so perhaps I'm only being fed SLO propaganda

    Also, while SLO is certainly hands-on and a practical education, it very much prepares you for all sectors of planning. Many classes are oriented toward municipal planning (implementation, design review... there's even a class on public sector planning); however, many of the studios (specific plan, urban design, general plan) and numerous classes prepare you for work for a firm or regional planning agency as you work heavily in plan development.

    It's a well-rounded program that will prepare you for many areas and sectors of planning.

    So, having said that... it seems you are a bit hesitant to move to SLO. Completely understandable as you have others to consider. I haven't heard anything specifically bad about Pomona - as I understand it has the same practical application as SLO but with the benefit of the LA metro area. Regardless of the campus, I think either Cal Poly would be highly regarded in the California planning profession.

  8. #8
    Pomona was originally started as a satellite campus of Cal Poly SLO. So, in a sense, Cal Poly SLO is the "real" Cal Poly.

    I got my BSCRP from SLO, so of course, I am biased along with all the others. One thing you will notice about CPSLO alumns is that we are all biased towards it; something I feel is a telling thing. THere are downsides like any university and planning program, but I feel, after having been in the job market and seeing the capacities of other graduates from other universities, that we have as good an education in planning that can be acquired. Planning is nebulous enough by itself, so you don't need to do a program that emphasizes theory. You'll get that in the masters program, of course, but most of your time will be spent on practical knowledge. The community planning labs can be very intense, but rewarding. You'll get to do actual design, but you won't have a lot of time, so that is also intense as you learn the various programs. After every design quarter you'll put your designs up for hallway critiques... stressful but fun. As a grad student, you'll only do this one or two times. You'll have classes on the environment, a theory class, city management type stuff, land use law, policy, etc. (I think they were considering doing some kind of dual degree with the MPP department, which is where I got my masters after the BSCRP.)

    CPSLO has a very high reputation in California. I now work on the East Coast, but many people still know its high reputation out here, mainly due to it's top-ten architecture program.

    Several of my BSCRP colleagues are now doing their masters at UCLA and seem to like it. But then, they already have the practical, broad-based undergrad education from Cal Poly.

    I would say it depends on what you're looking for when it comes to the type of masters program and the type of place you'll be living. SLO is a small city in a relatively isolated area, 3-4 hours drive from LA or SF. The quality of life is high, but don't expect to be able to stick around after you graduate. There are limited planning opportunities on the central coast. You'll very, very likely have to go to either LA or the Bay Area.

    I do know that the CPSLO CRP Department is currently reducing their undergrad admission and increasing their graduate admissions. This is because they want to de-emphasize planning as a undergrad endeavor and shift over to a graduate emphasis. If you'd like more information on the faculty, send me a pm.
    Last edited by chocolatechip; 16 Mar 2011 at 7:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    I'd strongly consider the Cal Polys if you want the best bang for my buck. I have a pretty darn reputable undergrad school on my resume, so I figure I may be able to afford a lesser-reputable grad school on my resume. I just want to learn as much material as possible, be able to apply it in real life, and walk away with as little debt as possible (my school's private endowment funded 90% of my undergrad career...so I'm not about to get into debt now). I live in LA so I think Pomona will work out just fine. If SLO was closer, I'd definitely apply there but housing expenses alone will rack up after a couple years. If I stay in Pomona, I'll live at home and contribute to the household but not spend nearly as much as I would if I got my own place in SLO.

    DO ANY OF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FINANCIAL AID CAL POLY POMONA OR SLO MAY OFFER? Or, is it fully self-funded for the most part (especially with California's budget deficit)? I have accepted admission into Pomona this year, and when I asked regarding possible fellowships/work-study/grants/etc. they just directed me to a link for the financial aid office, but there isn't much to read on there as it's mostly targeted to undergraduate funding. ANYBODY CARE TO SHARE THEIR 2 CENTS ON FINANCIAL AID FOR THE CAL POLY'S AT THE GRADUATE LEVEL?

    P.S. I hear UC Irvine's program is too theoretical for many people's taste. If you're looking for hands on or applicable, steer away from Irvine. I know a few pursuing phds in psych and soc and they're taking classes that cross-track with the school of social ecology...and that's why I ran the other way.

  10. #10
    As soon as I hear from UCLA I'm gonna contact like the la city planning dept., SM mountains conservancy, and see if anyone there would like to give me their 2 cents. I've got a meeting set up w/ pomona next week... I wish Pomona was the original and SLO the offshoot...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally posted by socalmurp View post
    I'd strongly consider the Cal Polys if you want the best bang for my buck. I have a pretty darn reputable undergrad school on my resume, so I figure I may be able to afford a lesser-reputable grad school on my resume. I just want to learn as much material as possible, be able to apply it in real life, and walk away with as little debt as possible (my school's private endowment funded 90% of my undergrad career...so I'm not about to get into debt now). I live in LA so I think Pomona will work out just fine. If SLO was closer, I'd definitely apply there but housing expenses alone will rack up after a couple years. If I stay in Pomona, I'll live at home and contribute to the household but not spend nearly as much as I would if I got my own place in SLO.

    DO ANY OF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FINANCIAL AID CAL POLY POMONA OR SLO MAY OFFER? Or, is it fully self-funded for the most part (especially with California's budget deficit)? I have accepted admission into Pomona this year, and when I asked regarding possible fellowships/work-study/grants/etc. they just directed me to a link for the financial aid office, but there isn't much to read on there as it's mostly targeted to undergraduate funding. ANYBODY CARE TO SHARE THEIR 2 CENTS ON FINANCIAL AID FOR THE CAL POLY'S AT THE GRADUATE LEVEL?

    P.S. I hear UC Irvine's program is too theoretical for many people's taste. If you're looking for hands on or applicable, steer away from Irvine. I know a few pursuing phds in psych and soc and they're taking classes that cross-track with the school of social ecology...and that's why I ran the other way.
    Federal aid will be increased slightly at the grad level, but there are fewer scholarships, awards, etc given by the Department than at the undergrad level. However, with tuition and fees only being around 5-6k, and only two years of education, it's not a huge issue.

    Housing around SLO is expensive, but not if you're single with roommates. Rent has eased a bit since the crash.

    BTW, please DO NOT lump together the "Cal Polys", as there is only ONE Cal Poly. Is Pomona a top-ten architecture school? Didn't think so. Does Pomona have as many renowned engineering programs? Didn't think so. Does Pomona have as a successful CRP program or win as many awards? Didn't think so either.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally posted by TimJ View post
    As soon as I hear from UCLA I'm gonna contact like the la city planning dept., SM mountains conservancy, and see if anyone there would like to give me their 2 cents. I've got a meeting set up w/ pomona next week... I wish Pomona was the original and SLO the offshoot...
    Hi TimJ!

    I got accepted to Pomona as well and was wondering how your meeting went. I don't know too much about their program and was thinking of visiting too. Anything you can share with me that you learned on your visit would be really helpful. Do you know if they have an open house or anything?

    Coincidentally, we both applied to all the same schools. I still haven't heard back from SLO or UCLA yet. If you do get into UCLA, I would go there. If you'd like to work at a place like the SM Mountain Conservancy (or other similar nonprofit public entities), they would agree. One of the classes I took at UCLA was taught by the director of the conservancy and I think he would point you towards UCLA...either that or USC(his alma mater).

  13. #13
    I haven't met with anyone at pomona yet, it was slo I visited last week. I was real impressed with their program. Next week I'll be visiting pomona.

    I finally heard from UCLA and have been accepted, whether I accept or not will largely depend on if they offer any $$ or work study or something. It's just soooo expensive compared to the cal poly schools. Plus I really like the practical, hands-on curriculum at the cal-polys. I thought it was great they basically force you to learn sketchup and indesign and photoshop and do some design work in your first year.

    Frankly I'm very confused right now. I'd love to go to UCLA but now that I've got a grasp of what cal poly does I feel they're almost equal choices.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Ah......

    I'm just thinking out loud on this one.......
    Wouldn't UCLA have better recognition nationwide than that Poly school place everyone is talking about
    I mean just in case you ever work outside California.....
    Skilled Adoxographer

  15. #15
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    Name recognition? Yes. The question for the one who posted this thread is IS IT WORTH THE ADDED DEBT? I personally don't think it is. Especially for the salary range urban planners can expect. I don't think we should discount the role that networking has--regardless of what school you attend. Every job I've gotten I've been referred to by people I interact with on a daily basis.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    First and foremost, congratulations. It is a good accomplishment to be accepted into these fine schools.

    A lot of people have spoken up on this thread and I will preface that I am a graduate BSCRP from the "real" Cal Poly (CPSLO). With that said, this decision is not as easy as it may seem, because obviously you have many factors at play here because:

    1) This is a career change, so you are investing your money
    2) You need to make this decision with a spouse, which affects her
    3) You want to get a degree best for a job market
    4) What the heck do you want to do in planning

    Quote Originally posted by TimJ View post
    I want the best education for my money, but I also want the best master's degree for the job market. That might mean the most expensive school or the cheapest, I don't know.
    To be quite honest, a degree "from where" may matter when seeking an entry level position, but in reality this probably only plays a certain "percentage". Your real "marketability" will come from work experience, i.e. internships, projects you work on and lastly networking. As an employee involved in hiring in the private sector, we did make a preference for graduates from the "polys" (than again, most of my old firm were made up mostly from poly alumni), but in general you made more of a "wave" based on work experience and portfolio.

    With that being said, you probably have a hire a chance of landing an internship staying in Socal versus heading to the central coast due to the abduance of firms and munis there comparative to here. However this will all depend on the economy. Right now my muni has two interns, both from Cal Poly SLO. Both are fully functional planners and have been exposed to work that an assisant/associate planner does on an everyday basis from working the front counter to writing staff reports. One of them was essential in writing the the CEQA analysis for our Housing Element. School doesn't teach that stuff. This type of internship coupled with a quality hands on education make them extremely "marketable" in this economy.

    Again, will UCLA provide this? Maybe, maybe not. Since it is a UC, there aim is typically more "theory" based, in line with the intent of the UC system as a whole, where the CSU is more hands on, such as pumping out teachers, accountants, etc. That's the aim, hence the difference.

    Quote Originally posted by TimJ View post
    I'd be ready to choose it except for the fact it would require me and my wife moving, and her finding a new job when we've went been through unemployment hell not too long ago.
    This is tough. As a married dude, I definetly would follow my wife if she wanted to go to a school in a different area, simply because she has been by myside during my career decisions, especially when I landed a new job on the central coast. What does she do? Can she easily find employment here? Is she willing to move? These questions need to play a role. Do you want to start a family soon while your in school? The central coast is a great family town. Lots of things for couples to do, and it is quite possibly an overall great place to settle down and start roots in. My wife loves it here, our children love it here. It is easy to fall in love with this place, but as CC mentioned, finding good jobs are very hard to come by if you intend to stay and housing, well it ain't cheap (trust me, I know, I live in downtown for the quality of life, and accept living like a poor college student at times because of it). I pretty much crossed this place off when I left after graduating from here. I essentially gave myself a downgrade in job title to come back because my wife and I love the area, plus the job was something I wanted to do.

    Conversely, how will going to UCLA or Pomona affect you married life? Will you commute from your current location? If so, that can put a strain on a relationship. will you move closer to either campus? Westwood ain't cheap either.

    Final question is, what the heck do you see yourself doing with your degree? If you are thinking private sector, design side, than definitely either the Cal Poly SLO or Pomona. As other as mentioned, the cross education at Cal Poly SLO is great. This type of work will lead you into a potential job in the private sector.

    As other have mentioned, UCLA is theory based, but will teach you basics and the such, but the polys will teach you hands on, real world scenarios.

    If your thinking transportation planning, hands down UCLA. It's transportation program is well known. Same with international planning. Here, name recognition goes a way, but again, work experience goes longer.

    You really need to ask yourself what you want to do with this degree. Too many times I have seen people post on this forum complaining about the lack of job prospects today and to be frank, it is bleak, and will be for quite sometime. No matter where you choose it will all come down to work experience, work experience, and connections connections connections. Good Luck and feel free to PM me.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  17. #17
    Thanks for the response...

    I don't have a specific goal in regards to employment beyond getting a new career rather than another job. As it is I would like to work in some capacity on land use and environmental planning issues, but that's because that's what I'm invested in now and have been sort of working around the last year or so. I may find myself drawn to something different but as it is working for say, just as an example, the santa monica conservancy sounds cool.

    But I get the impression the land use/environmental planning field might be starved for cash at the municipal level as budgets continue to suck so ideally I'd like to have a skillset that could apply just about anywhere and/or that magical name on the resume that makes everyone think I'm real smart-like.

    I'm not very interested in transportation planning or international development. At least I don't think I am...

    You went to the "real" cal poly, so is that just kind of a joke or do you tend to think of a planning degree from pomona is less-than?

    The mrs. is no problem, she'd be happy to move but it of course would all hinge on her being able to find work. She's a graphic designer by trade, and I have a feeling there's plenty in SLO, and because of the recession she's employed as a travel-industry customer service agent. It's a small town, the odds seem fairly poor for her.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian cng's avatar
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    Tim, I think you'll do fine either way, no matter which school you go to. I was a school teacher in Los Angeles before I decided to go back to grad school for a career change into planning. I was also married at the time, but the wife didn't mind spending two years being poor and living on the central coast. Those were two very enjoyable years of my life--I was enrolled in the MCRP program, had time 15-20 hours a week for a paid internship, and had time go hang at the beach. Seven years later, I'm still enjoying what I studied for, and I find worth and value in my work. I think you'll find the same in your path.

  19. #19
    Found out today ucla doesn't wanna give me any money, I honestly don't see how I could possibly justify going there putting myself $40k into debt. I had 26k in debt from undergrad and it took me years to pay it off.

    Cripes.

    I'm getting the principal at the land-trust I work for to gather me some names of people I can talk to about school choice, I'm really hoping they all say "pomona is so awesome!" because it's the most doable. I would love a break from LA for a couple of years in slo but I don't know what my wife could do up there.

  20. #20

    Internship Questions

    Any recent SLO grads or current students who can shed light on internship opportunities in or around SLO?

    Some questions:

    Are there a lot of agencies/private firms looking for student interns?
    How common are the paid internships?
    My interest lies in housing development, both for profit and non-profit. Will there be firms around the area that I can get some ojt (on job training) related to development???

    Any information will be greatly appreciated!!!

  21. #21
    Cyburbian cng's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by SchoolsForFools View post
    Any recent SLO grads or current students who can shed light on internship opportunities in or around SLO?

    Some questions:

    Are there a lot of agencies/private firms looking for student interns?
    How common are the paid internships?
    My interest lies in housing development, both for profit and non-profit. Will there be firms around the area that I can get some ojt (on job training) related to development???

    Any information will be greatly appreciated!!!
    For non-profit housing development, give People's Self Help a call to see if they might take an intern. They're a pretty established organization.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally posted by cng View post
    For non-profit housing development, give People's Self Help a call to see if they might take an intern. They're a pretty established organization.
    Thanks for the info, I will look into it!

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Raf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by SchoolsForFools View post
    Any recent SLO grads or current students who can shed light on internship opportunities in or around SLO?

    Some questions:

    Are there a lot of agencies/private firms looking for student interns?
    How common are the paid internships?
    My interest lies in housing development, both for profit and non-profit. Will there be firms around the area that I can get some ojt (on job training) related to development???

    Any information will be greatly appreciated!!!
    No. There, agencies are limited in the area, primarily in SLO county (the cities and the county itself). Most if not all have interns (including mine). Most are paid. Private firms on occasion bring on interns, however from my friends still there, they are going to ensure enough workload for the staff currently employed, whether p/t or f/t. If there is not enough work for paid staff, then obviously the thought of hiring interns doesn't even come up.

    As CNG said People's Self Help. Also, Habitat for Humanity is big in the area. Also potentially contact the San Luis Obispo Housing Authority. They are the main point of contact for affordable housing.
    Men do dumb $hit... it is what they do to correct the problem that counts.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally posted by SchoolsForFools View post
    Any recent SLO grads or current students who can shed light on internship opportunities in or around SLO?

    Some questions:

    Are there a lot of agencies/private firms looking for student interns?
    How common are the paid internships?
    My interest lies in housing development, both for profit and non-profit. Will there be firms around the area that I can get some ojt (on job training) related to development???

    Any information will be greatly appreciated!!!
    The BSCRP program requires an internship, so there are a lot of places in SLO County that cycle interns in and out regularly. With that said, it is a small area, so most students go to southern California or the Bay Area to do an internship over the summer.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally posted by chocolatechip View post
    The BSCRP program requires an internship, so there are a lot of places in SLO County that cycle interns in and out regularly. With that said, it is a small area, so most students go to southern California or the Bay Area to do an internship over the summer.
    MCRP program requires an internship as well. My plan is to get my foot in the door as soon as I arrive, so I'm accessing the prospect of internships during the school year if I were to attend SLO. By the way, anyone have insight into the workload at SLO? Would it be possible to intern for 15-20hrs/wk and still have adequate time to complete school work?

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