The President Barack Obama Discussion Thread

[Bear Up North]

This thread is designed to be a bit of a "catch-all" for what we might call "water cooler talk" about the man who will be, in January, 2009, the next President of the United States. The thread will probably get the usual proclamations of divine intervention, sensible discussion of the issues facing his presidency, and a smattering of rants and raves. Go for it.
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This Bear will start, with a brief list of important issues that he will deal with, one way or another.....

The Employee Free Choice Act. Most likely this pro-union legislation will pass. Basically, it removes elections for a union from the workplace. If enough employees sign a card indicating they want a union the union is IN. A corporation will have little-to-no opportunity to make their case for not having a union.

Increased FMLA coverage. Smaller employers will find themselves being forced to comply with FMLA laws.

Extended paid leave will become a front-burner issue. This legislation will be strongly-welcomed by employees and a nightmare to employers.

There will be changes to discrimination laws. Those changes will loosen the strict time limits on filing certain types of discrimination suits. Example.....a Goodyear Tire employee.....a woman.....discovered that she was getting paid less than a male co-worker who was doing the same job. When she went to file a claim she was told that it had to be filed with 180 days of when she was hired at the lower rate, even though she did not discover it until much later.
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This Bear is not in favor of the union measure.....OK with the changes to FMLA, but well aware this will drive-up costs to consumers (and especially patients, because it will affect the smaller medical offices).....the paid leave issue will drive-up costs, perhaps significantly in the long-term, and could lead to more and more corporations switching to part-time employees.....totally in favor of the changes to the time limits on the discrimination cases.

We are hearing a lot about the BIG issue of the day.....the economy.....and how a Barack Obama administration will handle it. There are other issues that will also have lasting effects on the way we live. I have listed four.
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Your turn.

Bear

[Bear Up North]

This Bear has to wonder (as many of you probably also do).....why would anybody want to be President of the United States? President Barack Obama will face.....

This latest crisis in and around The Gaza Strip. This could lead to others jumping into the war pile.
The war rumblings between Pakistan and India.
Attempting to wind-down the involvement of the U.S.A. in Iraq.
Sabre-rattling from Iran. (Those sabres have nuclear tips.)
Sabre-rattling from North Korea. (Those sabres have nuclear tips.)
Horrific human rights violations in many corners of the world.
An economic tailspin.
The never-ending threat of terror.
Huge federal deficits.
"Baby Boomers" moving quickly and in large numbers into Socvial Security Land.
Global weather changes.
Unrealistic demands from every sort of group with a cause.

This list could go on and on.....

Bear

[boiker]

Employee Free Choice Act.

I'd like to expand on this. I initially thought that this act was right up a libertarians alley. The workers can decide freely whether or not to form a union. Now that I think about it a little more, the employer should be granted the rights to freely decline to employ union workers. I don't think many find unions to be necessary unless they are treated unfairly or compensated lower than what they expect for the job. Then the question is: are employees feeling a entitled to high wages/benefits or do they deserve it?

In basic principle, unions should not have to be ratified through the employer and I support that aspect of the act. But if there is not a provision that allows the employer to decline to employ or negotiate with collective bargining groups then the act is somewhat pointless.

[mgk920]

Anyone else notice that at his own request, he will be sworn in as 'Barack HUSSEIN Obama'? So you can put all of those yellow cards away now. (And besides, they clash with the colors of the holidays!)

See:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16406.html



Mike

[Whose Yur Planner]

Anyone else notice that at his own request, he will be sworn in as 'Barack HUSSEIN Obama'? So you can put all of those yellow cards away now. (And besides, they clash with the colors of the holidays!)

See:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16406.html



Mike

Sorry, I don't see what the issue is here. Would you have a problem with me using my full name tho my last name is German? After all, the Germans were responsible for 2 world wars the past century plus the holocost. Further, I probably had distant relatives fighting in both wars.

[mgk920]

Sorry, I don't see what the issue is here. Would you have a problem with me using my full name tho my last name is German? After all, the Germans were responsible for 2 world wars the past century plus the holocost. Further, I probably had distant relatives fighting in both wars.

The issue is that I was yellow carded and severely slapped down when I used his full name in political discussions in these forvms during the campaign, for no other reason than that I was using his full name. That's why I then used "(The Nameless One)" from then until just a couple of weeks ago.



Mike

[DetroitPlanner]

I don't have an issue with his middle name. BHO, GWB, WJC, JFK, its all the same to me. He could take the oath on the Koran and I'd be okay with it. After all we have the right of freedom from the persecution of religion. I am not sure in what context you mentioned Obama, but if it was in a way that persecuted him by insinuating his religion, then I'd have an issue with it.

[Brocktoon]

The issue is that I was yellow carded and severely slapped down when I used his full name in political discussions in these forvms during the campaign, for no other reason than that I was using his full name. That's why I then used "(The Nameless One)" from then until just a couple of weeks ago.



Mike

How many times did you refer to Senator McCain as John Sidney McCain? You intent was clear and it was not just to use his middle name, so why are you pretending the that by using all three names was benign, give the mods more credit than that!

[boiker]

The issue is that I was yellow carded and severely slapped down when I used his full name in political discussions in these forvms during the campaign, for no other reason than that I was using his full name. That's why I then used "(The Nameless One)" from then until just a couple of weeks ago. Mike Link to relevant thread? I imagine it was context or implication that caused the yellow flag rather than solely his name.

[Suburb Repairman]

Link to relevant thread? I imagine it was context or implication that caused the yellow flag rather than solely his name.

I'll do it for you: http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showp...&postcount=651 For context, page 26: http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showt...=15963&page=26 I, as a mod, naturally have an opinion on whether he was "severely slapped down". You are welcome to drift back through that thread to see the context. If you carry over to page 27, there is further discussion and explanation.

To the topic at hand... The last three presidents have used their middle names: George Herbert Walker Bush (quite a mouthful), William Jefferson Clinton and George Walker Bush. So did Franklin Delano Roosevelt and John Fitzgerald Kennedy. Obama is hardly unique in this regard.

I can just imagine... "Delano?!? Oh my god... the French are going to take over the country!!!" http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Delano-name-meaning.ashx

[michaelskis]

I have been thinking a lot on what an Obama presidency will bring and I have to tell you it is a mixed bag. While I will not agree with many of the policies that he makes, I will support him as the commander and chief of this great nation.

I fear that history is going to repeat is going to repeat its self and we will have another Cold War. The housing market has tanked, the government is taking over industries, Russia is invading other countries and reestablishing alliances with Cuba, and National Pride is rapidly decreasing. The value of the dollar is going to drop, gas prices will skyrocket as OPEC reduces oil supplies, and people will stop investing in the market causing it to crash.

Heck, there is a Russian who has been getting a lot of press as of late is predicting that it will get so bad over the next two years, that Civil War will break out and the county will break into pieces, two of which will get absorbed by Mexico and Canada. I don’t think that it will get that bad, but I worry that Obama’s policies will make things worse before they get any better.

During the election, 70% of the homes on my street had a sign out front... I did not because I did not like either candidate. But I did have an American Flag flying. Now that the election is done, my flag sill flies... and it is the only one on the street (about 5 blocks long). I think that it was great that people had pride and optimism in the election and were willing to express it everyway they could... but now that the election is done, why can’t people show support and pride in their Country? Why I am I the only one with an American Flag on my street?

I think that Obama has an amazing opportunity to accomplish his catch phrases... Hope, Pride, Change. I think that with the right help, he might be capable of doing phenomenal things and reestablishing this county as the panicle of success. But it will never be accomplished with far left wing agenda, partisan politics, or the intentions of Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reed and the destructive Congress that has been in place for the past two years. Since they took over, the housing market and the economy have crashed and the faith in government has plummeted to extremes. Congress for the past two years have had a far lower approval rating that Bush.

If he is to succeed and instill the utopic vision for the US, he will need to govern as an independent, non-partisan, charismatic leader who does not let opinion polls, interest groups, or party agendas dictate his decisions.

One thing that I think would be a quick win-win for people is to change the standard federal working week from five eight-hour days to four ten-hour days.

[michaelskis]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.

[Raf]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.

Sorry mike, but he still would have won...

GET OVER IT

[michaelskis]

Sorry mike, but he still would have won...

GET OVER IT

Wow, you have all the numbers already? That is impressive!

Come on; unless you have done the research or have seen some report, then there is no way that you could know that. In actual popular vote, it was not a landslide. He won the states, but at times by a close majority.

What is done is done and can't be undone. I just hope that he is more productive (in a positive way) than he was as a Senator from IL.

People have been bashing Bush for 8 years now, and it is ok because it is America. But I have noticed that some people (many in the media) freak out if someone questions Obama. I love how he had this grand economic plan that helped him win. He made it seem like an overnight sensation. But now he is saying it is going to take years for the economy to recover?

There is nothing to get over. The election might be done, but he starts making decisions as the President here very soon. If people can question and criticize Bush over the past several years, then I can question and criticize Obama when he does anything that I don’t agree with.

[btrage]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.

Who are all of these "more and more people" of which you speak? I've seen no new coverage of this topic at all since the election.

[michaelskis]

Who are all of these "more and more people" of which you speak? I've seen no new coverage of this topic at all since the election.

Since the election? Did you hear about it before the election?

NPR had different people around the country reporting on their thoughts on the election, and I was listening when at least 5 different people commented that they felt it was time that America had a Black President and that is why they are voting for him. Chris Rock has admitted it and has even incorporated the concept into his comedy routine noting that not only is it ok, it should be expected. After all the comment “Bros’ before Hos’” was used multiple times when Hillary was still running for nomination.

Your main stream media does not cover anything that could be potentially questionable when it comes to Obama… you think that they would cover something like this? I don’t know the numbers, and that is why I made the comment above. I wonder how it would be different. Perhaps it might only be 4 less votes. I don’t know the answer.

There have been multiple people who have made unquantifiable comments regarding Obama. There was one interview in which an Obama supporter and elected official commented that Obama is the smartest president to ever be elected. The interviewer asked what Obama’s IQ was and this guy did not know. He based it on his opinion of what he has seen and heard from Obama.

Does anyone know what the IQ of the past several presidents have been? I hear that Jimmy Carter has a very high IQ but I don’t know what the number is.

[Bear Up North]

Just reminding all that this thread is available, open, at-the-ready, and a nice choice for discussion about our new President. Perhaps a better choice than the Random Thoughts thread.

Bear

[CJC]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.

What percentage of the black vote did Kerry get? 88%?

[Maister]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? .

Mskis, I just can't fathom why all the damned liberals around here give you such a hard time. It baffles me.

[cellophane]

Employee Free Choice Act.

I'd like to expand on this. I initially thought that this act was right up a libertarians alley. The workers can decide freely whether or not to form a union. Now that I think about it a little more, the employer should be granted the rights to freely decline to employ union workers. I don't think many find unions to be necessary unless they are treated unfairly or compensated lower than what they expect for the job. Then the question is: are employees feeling a entitled to high wages/benefits or do they deserve it?

In basic principle, unions should not have to be ratified through the employer and I support that aspect of the act. But if there is not a provision that allows the employer to decline to employ or negotiate with collective bargining groups then the act is somewhat pointless.

i am in no way up on current labor laws and practices, but arent unions an antiquated 'technology' if you will? they had a definite benefit to workers 100 years ago when your boss could beat you with a stick if you didnt perform but given the changes to labor laws over the last 100 years i fail to see where a union is necessary anymore. this could in a lot of ways spill over to professional organizations like the AIA or the AICP - but those groups also help enforce the law and (theoretically) ensure a high standard of professional conduct and training.

[kjel]

I wonder how the election would have turned out if all the racist people who said that they only voted for Obama because he was black? It would be better if they said something like, “I like his policies” but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), because of the color of his skin.

I wonder how many people voted for McCain because he was white. Bottom line is that many people who vote do not do so out of rational choice.

Have any of you purchased a new refrigerator lately? Any suggestions?

1. Make sure you measure the space that the fridge goes in and write down all the dimensions: height, width, depth.

2. Consider which features you want in the fridge, consider ease of cleaning, and replacement cost of bulbs, water filters, etc.

3. I personally have had better and more knowledgeable service from local appliance stores than the big box stores especially when it comes to installation and disposal of the old appliance. It's often worth the extra few bucks.

[btrage]

Since the election? Did you hear about it before the election?

NPR had different people around the country reporting on their thoughts on the election, and I was listening when at least 5 different people commented that they felt it was time that America had a Black President and that is why they are voting for him. Chris Rock has admitted it and has even incorporated the concept into his comedy routine noting that not only is it ok, it should be expected. After all the comment “Bros’ before Hos’” was used multiple times when Hillary was still running for nomination.

Until you've walked in a black person's shoes, don't judge them. If I was enslaved for hundreds of years and denied basic civil rights up until a few decades ago, I might just vote for a white guy because he was white just as an F you to society. Focusing on shit like this only continues to divide and not bring people together. :- We're in the most serious recession in decades and you're still bringing up race.

And honestly, Chris Rock is a freakin actor/comedien. Please don't take him seriously. He's probably just trying to sell tickets.

[AnvilPartners]

and I'm bitter about it.

Sorry, but my bible slipped and fell on the keyboard before I could finish the post...

[boiker]

i am in no way up on current labor laws and practices, but arent unions an antiquated 'technology' if you will? they had a definite benefit to workers 100 years ago when your boss could beat you with a stick if you didnt perform but given the changes to labor laws over the last 100 years i fail to see where a union is necessary anymore. this could in a lot of ways spill over to professional organizations like the AIA or the AICP - but those groups also help enforce the law and (theoretically) ensure a high standard of professional conduct and training.

I'm not so sure they are antiquated. But they certainly have lost their purpose in some regards.

If unions disappeared overnight you can bet that many workers would end up with reduced benefits and pay in the morning. Some probably deserved.

Without doing the research, I'm going to make a lot of assumptions (someone please correct me). I bet unions help establish overtime, a regular work week, middle-class wages, health benefits, retirement benefits, OSHA regulations and many other things that have become "the norm." Without them, who knows how long it would have taken to get these protections and benefits for all employees and if they were gone, how quickly would many of these benefits and laws dissolve?

.... but more and more people (including Actor Chris Rock), [voted for him] because of the color of his skin.

But his complexion is superb! Maybe, it's Mabelyne?

There is nothing to get over. The election might be done, but he starts making decisions as the President here very soon. If people can question and criticize Bush over the past several years, then I can question and criticize Obama when he does anything that I don’t agree with.

I waited for W to start screwing stuff up before I was critical of him in '00. I even gave him he benefit of the doubt with his cabinet and the Florida chad situation. Please return the favor to Obama. I'll be happy to criticize him when he makes mistakes.

[Suburb Repairman]

Want to see the importance of unions? Our two civil service unions (PD & FD) have had meet & confer for the last two years, and voters just approved collective bargaining. Those two unions pretend like we don't exist, and upper administration reflects this because they know we don't have any real power. We have employees that are paid 20% below market, which has resulted in a revolving door. Meanwhile, PD & FD are easily the highest paid of our peer group in the area. When they leave, they even get their sick leave paid while we can't get our entire vacation build-up (only get paid for a total of 35 days).

I'm not one to be all up for unions, but when you witness the competitive advantage they get, even in a state like Texas, it changes things. I know several folks at our city are whispering about contacting Associations of Municipal Employees and AFSCME.

Everybody (including me) was fine, until one group of employees started getting major special treatment and a seat at the bargaining table, not considering those of us without that ability when they bargained exclusively for their best interest. They bargain like the city has a money tree. Yet when it comes time for the rest of us in the budget, we're standing out in the cold. All I ask is for us to get at least some scraps.