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Thread: Dirt cheap housing markets

  1. #1
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Dirt cheap housing markets

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/...ets/index.html

    Did your community make the list?


    It seems that Ohio has 4 of the top 10 housing markets that are "dirt cheap". I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but it seems that Ohio is making all kinds of recession lists right now.

    I am surprised that more areas that were boom cities aren't on the list. I mean Youngstown was never expensive in the first place. I would imagine it is all relative in terms of "cheap" as well.

    I bet I can get a pretty good deal on real estate in Vegas. Just maybe not a $40k house like in Toledo. Any thoughts?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #2
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    I don't know anything about Vegas, but I have been finding $50k houses in Florida -- some of which are only a block or so from the ocean. You can't even buy a parking space near the ocean for that price in Hawaii.

  3. #3
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    I wonder what the size of those median priced homes is compared to those in other communities. The Buffalo metro regularly ends up on lists of of affordable housing markets, based on the median priced home, but the vast majority of the region's housing stock was built before 1980. Also, much that housing stock was built with a blue collar homebuyer in mind. There are entire suburbs where it would be difficult to find a house that is larger than 1,500 square feet or pricier than $130,000. The median priced house in the Buffalo area is probably going to be several hundred square feet smaller than in a growing market outside of the Rust Belt.

    My guess: that median-priced house in Youngstown is going to be much smaller than one in ... oh, Denver, because it was built in the 1950s with a factory worker in mind, not a middle-level white collar worker.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
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    Most of these picks are so obvious. "The economy tanked, the city has double-digit unemployment, and the foreclosure rate is sky-high, so real estate is DIRT CHEAP!" Well, duh! Wouldn't it be more interesting and informative to list inexpensive housing markets in areas that are also thriving, or at least aren't struggling?? It's like kicking someone when they're down.

  5. #5
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Mud Princess View post
    Most of these picks are so obvious. "The economy tanked, the city has double-digit unemployment, and the foreclosure rate is sky-high, so real estate is DIRT CHEAP!" Well, duh! Wouldn't it be more interesting and informative to list inexpensive housing markets in areas that are also thriving, or at least aren't struggling?? It's like kicking someone when they're down.
    Yea but this is a "positive". Look at how affordable these places are....
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

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    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    Yea but this is a "positive". Look at how affordable these places are....
    If it makes people purchase the available housing stock quicker, then I'm all for the free advertising. The less houses on the market, the more in demand my house will be.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Linda_D's avatar
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    Here's a site that allows you to compare housing and other costs of where you live now to other places. I found out that I could maintain my life-style with only about 85% of my income if I moved to Toledo, Ohio or 90% of my income if I moved to Greenville, Tennessee -- and I don't live in a "high rent" city to begin with.

    City Comparisons

  8. #8
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    I recently had to move due to safety reasons (my house kept getting broken into). I was shocked at how low I could buy a house for in a very nice suburb. Even when you factor in the condo fees its still cheaper than my old monthly payments.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    If it makes people purchase the available housing stock quicker, then I'm all for the free advertising. The less houses on the market, the more in demand my house will be.
    Well, that's the thing: there's no demand, so the prices are dirt cheap. The houses aren't magically going to sell if there is no reason to live in these markets (jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, family/friends, jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, retirement, jobs).

  10. #10
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    Well, that's the thing: there's no demand, so the prices are dirt cheap. The houses aren't magically going to sell if there is no reason to live in these markets (jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, family/friends, jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, retirement, jobs).
    Unfortunately I agree. The Dayton, Ohio area for instance is pretty well dead. The "demand" for this housing stock is not high. They even show a house that is in one of the suburbs that isn't as bad, instead of showing a typical home in the City.

    If there was demand at all, the prices in Dayton, Toledo, or Akron (I don't know as much about Youngstown) would be higher.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  11. #11
    I find it interesting when people say that area x is too expensive, therefore no one wants to live there..

    How can we help revive these low cost areas?

  12. #12
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gotta Speakup View post
    How can we help revive these low cost areas?
    This is a simple matter of a supply of good paying jobs. Most rust belt areas are known for manufacturing and changes in technology as well as the off-shoring of jobs have decimated the job pool. Its not as if these places do not have a lot going for them otherwise, just too many houses/infastructure.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  13. #13
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    Well, that's the thing: there's no demand, so the prices are dirt cheap. The houses aren't magically going to sell if there is no reason to live in these markets (jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, family/friends, jobs, amenities, jobs, jobs, retirement, jobs).
    I disagree, in part. The foreclosure crisis is artifically keeping housing prices low. If you remove all of the foreclosures, then housing prices would go up. Not back to pre-recession levels, but they would pick up decent gains, regardless of jobs, jobs, jobs.

    Now maybe this wouldn't help houses sell (because of stricter lending), but it would help housing values and help people refinance their mortgages, and help with the millions of people that are underwater on their houses.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  14. #14
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gotta Speakup View post
    How can we help revive these low cost areas?
    Open the flood gates on immigration.

    If you don't have a violent criminal record in your place of origin...come on in!

    And I am dead serious.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    The ends can justify the means.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I disagree, in part. The foreclosure crisis is artifically keeping housing prices low. If you remove all of the foreclosures, then housing prices would go up. Not back to pre-recession levels, but they would pick up decent gains, regardless of jobs, jobs, jobs.

    Now maybe this wouldn't help houses sell (because of stricter lending), but it would help housing values and help people refinance their mortgages, and help with the millions of people that are underwater on their houses.
    The bubble lifted prices artificially high, in my view. There were several things in our society that enabled this bubble (and other past bubbles, and our future bubbles), but the foreclosure levels are an indicator of the issue, not the cause.

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    Cyburbian Linda_D's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Open the flood gates on immigration.

    If you don't have a violent criminal record in your place of origin...come on in!

    And I am dead serious.
    I'm with you, mendelman. We, as a nation, are rapidly aging, and we need young people, especially ambitious ones. Immigrants are that, in spades. Contrary to the squeals of the anti-immigration crowd, people don't pick up their families and move thousands of miles to a new country to collect welfare. They want what most of our ancestors wanted when they boarded those boats in the "Old World": better lives for themselves and their children.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Open the flood gates on immigration.

    If you don't have a violent criminal record in your place of origin...come on in!

    And I am dead serious.
    Thirded.

    At the very least, we should be rolling out the red carpet for any immigrant going to college here, already working here, or actively interviewing for jobs here.
    Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but three lefts do.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Mud Princess's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Thirded.

    At the very least, we should be rolling out the red carpet for any immigrant going to college here, already working here, actively interviewing for jobs here, or with a plan to create a company here.
    Absolutely!

    I read a really good blog post about this issue recently... now if I could just remember which of the 95??? blogs I follow had the post...

  19. #19
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    The bubble lifted prices artificially high, in my view. There were several things in our society that enabled this bubble (and other past bubbles, and our future bubbles), but the foreclosure levels are an indicator of the issue, not the cause.
    I agree - subsidies and other government-caused market distortions (including local zoning restrictions) kept the market artificially and absurdly high at least since WWII and the recent and ongoing crash was the inevitable result of that. One thing that often comes to my mind when discussing this subject with others, particularly recently, is 'tulip bulbs'.

    BTW, as long as they are coming for the right reasons, I also have no problem with immigration. If I had my way, it would be much easier to come in legally (cut the time, red tape and endless pitfalls for citizenship tracks for legal immigrants. especially) and much harder to come in illegally. I would be working to negotiate a North American version of the 'Schengen' agreement, too.

    Mike

  20. #20
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post

    BTW, as long as they are coming for the right reasons, I also have no problem with immigration.
    Most of them ARE coming for the right reason: their opportunities to break the cycle of dirt-cheap poverty are few and far between, so they leave for a place with more opportunity.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Linda_D's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    BTW, as long as they are coming for the right reasons, I also have no problem with immigration. If I had my way, it would be much easier to come in legally (cut the time, red tape and endless pitfalls for citizenship tracks for legal immigrants. especially) and much harder to come in illegally. I would be working to negotiate a North American version of the 'Schengen' agreement, too.

    Mike
    If it was "much easier to come in legally", there would be much less illegal immigration. People get tired of waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ...

  22. #22
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    Immigration

    The problem with 'immigration' being the solution is that immigrants move to places where jobs are - which tend to be places with higher home values. While immigration is certainly a net positive for the USA, it doesn't solve regional economic decline. Ed Glaeser has published a series of illuminating articles in the New York Times about agglomeration economies, clustering, and so on that really hammer this point home.

    Some interesting recent proposals have centered on providing immigrants green cards with the condition that they maintain residency in, say, Detroit, for a few years. In a strange way, this parallels the "charter city" concept, in which dysfunctional countries turn over land to other countries in the hope that the new, functional "charter cities" jumpstart systemic reform.

    Whether regional economic decline can be fixed by compelling immigrants to reside there is a fascinating question that I'd love to see answered. Does an ineffable "immigrant spirit" transcend regional pathologies, or do depressed regions require much more than that (e.g. massive capital investment) to set off a chain reaction of economic regeneration?

  23. #23
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Vanderlyn View post
    The problem with 'immigration' being the solution is that immigrants move to places where jobs are - which tend to be places with higher home values. While immigration is certainly a net positive for the USA, it doesn't solve regional economic decline. Ed Glaeser has published a series of illuminating articles in the New York Times about agglomeration economies, clustering, and so on that really hammer this point home.

    Some interesting recent proposals have centered on providing immigrants green cards with the condition that they maintain residency in, say, Detroit, for a few years. In a strange way, this parallels the "charter city" concept, in which dysfunctional countries turn over land to other countries in the hope that the new, functional "charter cities" jumpstart systemic reform.

    Whether regional economic decline can be fixed by compelling immigrants to reside there is a fascinating question that I'd love to see answered. Does an ineffable "immigrant spirit" transcend regional pathologies, or do depressed regions require much more than that (e.g. massive capital investment) to set off a chain reaction of economic regeneration?
    Not sure if you're referring to the recent immigration talks in Michigan with your mention of Detroit, but it's certainly a hot-button issue. The governor just held a conference at Wayne State University (in Detroit) discussing many of the issues already in this thread.

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