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Thread: Prohibit parking on new collector?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian transguy's avatar
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    Prohibit parking on new collector?

    We're having a discussion in our office and I'd like to see what you guys think. We've in the process of constructing a connector road between two areas. This road will be a 38 foot wide collector roadway and is forecast to carry ~8,000 vpd. The primary role of this road will be to provide access to a major commercial area. There is some residential currently built along the roadway with some office, residential, and retail planned for the future. This is a suburban development.

    The big debate right now is whether to prohibit, prohibit in some areas, or allow parking along the new roadway. This new road is simply a connection between two roads; it does not continue on either side of the project. Speed limit will be 35 mph.

    I've been looking through the AASHTO Greenbook for some information to sway the decision either way. I don't really care which way it goes, I'm more concerned with having a logical and defensible set of actions. The problem I see with the greenbook is that it seems to cover urban and rural without a discussion of a suburban context (this is one of my larger complaints).

    There is one group that is advocating to allow parking as we have the width to handle it. The other side is saying that parking should be prohibited because we don't have to have it (new development provides sufficient off-street parking). Both sides have some merit. Oh, there is also a large City park a few blocks away that has little parking (intentionally). Not sure if this location would be ideal for parking for that purpose on a daily basis, but it would be utilized during special events.

    So, thoughts on if parking should be allowed?
    Much work remains to be done before we can announce our total failure to make any progress.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian mike gurnee's avatar
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    No parking on any collector. A collector is for movement of vehicles, bikes, and pedestrians. On street parking interrupts that movement. Local streets are to provide access to fronting properties.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian boiker's avatar
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    It depends on the context and established roadway and development character. It sounds suburban, so it should not allow parking. The width may need to be narrowed. A 38-ft wide roadway may encourage speeds and traffic movements that are unsafe on a collector roadway.
    Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    This is a raceway waiting to happen. So are you OK with cars zipping through at 50 MPH or do you want them to slow down? An ADT of 8000 is not really all that heavy, despite the perceptions of most people who are accustomed to low density, single use suburban development.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  5. #5
    Cyburbian transguy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    This is a raceway waiting to happen. So are you OK with cars zipping through at 50 MPH or do you want them to slow down? An ADT of 8000 is not really all that heavy, despite the perceptions of most people who are accustomed to low density, single use suburban development.
    Building raceways is what we do here

    I'm not sure how the paved width was determined but I do know it's set in stone (or rather concrete). Construction has begun and now we (not me actually, I was justed asked my opinion but I have no real voice) are trying to figure out whether to allow parking or not. I'm guessing that parking won't be allowed and it will become a revenue generator for the City...
    Much work remains to be done before we can announce our total failure to make any progress.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    How long is this road? What is the speed? 50 mph is way too fast for a collector where I live. Collectors here are probably between 25 and 35. At 8k, you would expect that during your peak hour use of slightly more than one car per minute, not exactly an insignificant anount, but not really one that would cause too many issues should the road be built correctly.

    You give some information on land uses, but not much is known on curb cuts and intersections.

    38' is not very wide. You can have 2 travel lanes with some additional space that could be used for either parking or a center turn lane. If you have a lot of driveways you're probably going to need a CTL in order to keep traffic moving and provide a safe environment.

    Is the parking needed or is it just a 'would be nice'? If it falls into the later, then you have to decide if it is better to have the parking over safety and mobility because it will mean doing away with the CTL.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    Oct 2004
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    New Orleans, LA
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    I'd prefer angle parking on alternating sides to force the travel route out of straightness, as well as to leave odd shapes to put things to psychologically narrow the road. That way you can try to have your lower speed limit not be completely ignored by people who see a wide straight drag strip. Alternately, put a park strip in the middle with hedgy stuff to squish the lanes when you don't need it for turning; you can always claim that it's reserved for future expansion, but in the meanwhile it'll help get people to slow the heck down, and it'll help property value. Plus, if you chose the greenery right, you might be able to sell it as a traffic safety feature.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian transguy's avatar
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    The road is about 3/4 of a mile long and is hilly and curvy. The formal decision will be made today to prohibit parking on the roadway. It's a short segment of roadway to connect two areas and reduce congestion (primarily percieved - but I do like the project quite a bit) at another intersection. Who knows, maybe this will generate some revenue for the City

    I worked on a lot of the planning stages for this to justify spending the money on the roadway. I've been doing this for about 5 years now and this is my first project that I took from the beginning that's being built (where there was nothing previously). We don't build a lot of new roads, so the process has been really cool.

    Thanks for the replies.
    Much work remains to be done before we can announce our total failure to make any progress.

  9. #9
    It wouldn't be reasonable to allow parking on a collector roadway. With that pavement width, you could stripe for bike lanes, turn lanes, bus pull-over spots, etc. Also, aesthetic features could be installed now or later to add to the view of the roadway.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Mar 2004
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    Appleton, Wisconsin
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    I agree - no parking. That street is meant to carry traffic and nothing else. I would certainly dress it up with curbing, sidewalks, trees in the terraces, a 'boulevard' style median (with trees in it) and so forth to slow the traffic a bit. Will any of the properties along it have rights of direct access to it? If not, that's another reason to not have on-street parking on it.

    Mike

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