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Thread: Letting your inner conservative out

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally posted by Tarf View post
    Sure do, and morality has nothing to do with it. One's relation to the status quo has no bearing on one's morality.
    Morality is the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives.

    EXAMPLE:

    Drugged up, unbathed hippie free love vs. good ol' Christian abstinence!

  2. #27
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner

    I find it funny because I am so conservative when it comes to fiscal issues, and so liberal when it comes to social issues.
    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    Me too. Let's start our own party. We'll call it the Smart People Party (SPP for short because planners loves acronyms)

    My IC comes out whenever I pay taxes. It isn't the paying of taxes that makes my IC come out. It is the amount of taxes I pay and what most of my tax dollars are paying for. Give me protection of health, safety, blahblahblah, but keep useless programs out of it and quit giving tax breaks for things that people don't need tax breaks for. All that does is make everyone have to pay more. Which makes me grumpy. Most of the time, people are going to do what they are going to do because they want to do it, not because there is some random tax break. [/removing grumpy IC hat now]
    They do have a party, it is called libertarian. Less spending, less government interference in our lives, more personal freedom and personal responsibility.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  3. #28
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    Except fiscal conservatives don't necessarily have an issue with the size and scope of government like libertarians do. Many would be perfectly happy if the government would simply take in enough revenue to provide the services that the government already does.

  4. #29
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Except fiscal conservatives don't necessarily have an issue with the size and scope of government like libertarians do. Many would be perfectly happy if the government would simply take in enough revenue to provide the services that the government already does.
    I would say that for the most part, you are very correct as the last several presidents, regardless of political party, have increased the size of the Federal Government. However, that was the biggest sticking point with the super committee. The R's wanted to cut programs (reduce the size of government) and the D's wanted to raise taxes (maintain size of government).

    I personally want a drastically smaller Federal Government, to pay less in taxes, and more personal freedoms.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  5. #30
    Cyburbian kalimotxo's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I personally want a drastically smaller Federal Government, to pay less in taxes, and more personal freedoms.
    What freedoms that you currently lack would you gain through a reduction in the size of the Federal government?
    Process and dismissal. Shelter and location. Everybody wants somewhere.

  6. #31
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    It's kind of funny that we've seen a large shift from deficit spending to fiscal conservatism, yet both parties still can't agree on revenue versus cuts. Seems like there should be some obvious middle ground here but we're not seeing it from this congress.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by kalimotxo View post
    What freedoms that you currently lack would you gain through a reduction in the size of the Federal government?
    The right to arm bears?
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  8. #33
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    However, that was the biggest sticking point with the super committee. The R's wanted to cut programs (reduce the size of government) and the D's wanted to raise taxes (maintain size of government).

    No... the Democrats wanted to raise taxes (on the wealthy only) AND cut spending.

    The Republicans only wanted to cut spending, which would kill the economic recovery.

    IMO, the democrats had it right... slash spending and raise taxes to close the gap.
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  9. #34
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by kalimotxo View post
    What freedoms that you currently lack would you gain through a reduction in the size of the Federal government?
    Here is my short list...
    • The right to only allow the federal government to regulate those powers granted to it in the Constitution, (Uphold the 10th Amendment)
    • The right to retain my income and not be taxed at the federal level the right to live in a society with an understandable tax code that is free of loopholes (need to repeal 16th Amendment and eliminate IRS)
    • The right to let alternative energy companies compete evenly on the free market (eliminate Dept of Energy & Dept. of Commerce)
    • The right to process money that is not a violation of the constitution, (Eliminate Federal Reserve & IRS)
    • The right to have my state legislature appoint the members of the Senate (repeal 17th Amendment)
    • The right to teach my child in a way that I feel is appropriate and not dictated by federal mandates (eliminate Dept. of Edu.)
    • The right to choose my healthcare and not be mandated by the federal government (repeal Obama Care)
    • The right to allow the free market and capitalism to run its course without government interference ( restructure HUD, and eliminate Dept. of Commerce & Dept. of Energy. Restrict Congress…)
    • The right to have performance to be more of a factor than union membership for employment status (Eliminate Dept. of Commerce)
    • The right to have national defense within our country and not have militaristic interference in other parts of the world (Consolidate and restructure the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, ATF, DEA, State Department, Branches of the Military, and many others)
    • The right to not only own and carry a weapon of my choice, but also have the ammunition to load into it (Repeal Brady Bill restructure departments noted above)
    • The right to not wonder if the government is reading my e-mails or listening to my phone calls (repeal the Patriot Act)
    • The right not to have commercial or unions influence in terms of lobbyists. (ummm EVERYONE)


    Quote Originally posted by Tarf View post
    No... the Democrats wanted to raise taxes (on the wealthy only) AND cut spending.

    The Republicans only wanted to cut spending, which would kill the economic recovery.

    IMO, the democrats had it right... slash spending and raise taxes to close the gap.
    Can you send me a link that has the text for the bill proposed by the democrats? From what I found, while it cut some programs, there was also several items that increased spending for others. Without the increased taxes on the EVIL wealthy people, it would have been no net decrease in total spending.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  10. #35
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    They do have a party, it is called libertarian. Less spending, less government interference in our lives, more personal freedom and personal responsibility.
    Off-topic:
    After viewing your post above this, it is somewhat pointless, as you are more libertarian then me, but here is the difference between where I stand and a libertarian.

    I don't believe in two main tenants of libertarianism - I don't believe in removing all regulation or letting the "market" work itself out. I think there is a place and a time for government - Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, Department of Education, etc. These agencies protect the lowerst denominator and create a baseline of support for our country. I like knowing that my food has been checked. I like knowing that my children have at least learned about chemistry and math. I like knowing that my ideas will be protected by laws.

    I agree with the idea that the government shouldn't be involved in religion, or sexual preference, or warmongering. I don't think the government should be able to spend money it doesn't have. But with that said - the government has a place, and it should be a prominent place in the country. That is by necessity of services.

    Where does a guy, who thinks that we should cut tax rates and focus primarily on our debt, but supports the freedom of religion and gay rights go to? The Republican party has put the kibosh on anyone who isn't socially conservative. Christianity HAS to be a focus. These are things that I can't support. The democratic party has made an effort to ignore the reality that entitlements won't last. We need a middle party. One that cares only about fiscal issues, and stays out of our homes and bedrooms. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  11. #36
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Where does a guy, who thinks that we should cut tax rates and focus primarily on our debt, but supports the freedom of religion and gay rights go to? The Republican party has put the kibosh on anyone who isn't socially conservative. Christianity HAS to be a focus. These are things that I can't support. The democratic party has made an effort to ignore the reality that entitlements won't last. We need a middle party. One that cares only about fiscal issues, and stays out of our homes and bedrooms. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  12. #37
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    And a new liberty that is now gone. The new national defense authorization more or less eliminates the protections of the 5th Amendment while the Patriot Act is in violation of the 4th Amendment. It was a bipartisan bill that passed and the President is 'excited' to sign it.

    So, let's say you are part of a neighborhood group, and a member of that group commits an act of treason or act of terror, the military can detain you for an unlimited period of time without phone call or any rights, just because of association. So, Bill Ayers did all these bad things, and now they can arrest the President for his association with him.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  13. #38
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    And a new liberty that is now gone. The new national defense authorization more or less eliminates the protections of the 5th Amendment while the Patriot Act is in violation of the 4th Amendment. It was a bipartisan bill that passed and the President is 'excited' to sign it.

    So, let's say you are part of a neighborhood group, and a member of that group commits an act of treason or act of terror, the military can detain you for an unlimited period of time without phone call or any rights, just because of association. So, Bill Ayers did all these bad things, and now they can arrest the President for his association with him.
    I agree that this is cause for alarm, but what no one is acknowledging is that the current situation is actually worse. The pending legislation you are referring to actually improves much greater injustices. So there are no new liberties gone. They have been gone for quite sometime, but for some reason people are just now noticing.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  14. #39
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    The Republican party has put the kibosh on anyone who isn't socially conservative. Christianity HAS to be a focus.
    Saturday Night Live's Tim Tebow Satire Raises Ire Of Pro-Christianity Voices
    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish...m-tebow-sketch

    Well wouldn't you know? Isn't this freedom of religion to be able to make fun of religion? Or only other religions that aren't Christianity?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  15. #40
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Saturday Night Live's Tim Tebow Satire Raises Ire Of Pro-Christianity Voices
    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish...m-tebow-sketch

    Well wouldn't you know? Isn't this freedom of religion to be able to make fun of religion? Or only other religions that aren't Christianity?
    Well, you know the difference, Hink. The 700 Club is not the US government, therefore those blowhards have as much right to rail against SNL's lazy comedy as SNL has the right to make fun of an overtly religious public figure.

    Anyways, SNL is a bunch of ultra East Coast elitist left-wing zygote killers and the 700 Club is a bunch of holier-than-thou "can cast the first stone" extreme right-wingers...and all worthy of ridicule.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

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  16. #41
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    Saturday Night Live's Tim Tebow Satire Raises Ire Of Pro-Christianity Voices
    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish...m-tebow-sketch

    Well wouldn't you know? Isn't this freedom of religion to be able to make fun of religion? Or only other religions that aren't Christianity?
    I personally thought it was funny. I can see Tebow being a cameo appearance guest during weekend update or even the host of the show after the season is over.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  17. #42
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    The 700 Club is not the US government, therefore those blowhards have as much right to rail against SNL's lazy comedy as SNL has the right to make fun of an overtly religious public figure.
    I agree. I was more referring to Fox News and Bob Bechol, etc. Pat Robertson is not relevant to today's world, so his opinions (which are very bigoted and uninformed) do not surprise or disappoint me.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Here is my short list...
    • The right to only allow the federal government to regulate those powers granted to it in the Constitution, (Uphold the 10th Amendment)
    • The right to retain my income and not be taxed at the federal level the right to live in a society with an understandable tax code that is free of loopholes (need to repeal 16th Amendment and eliminate IRS)
    • The right to let alternative energy companies compete evenly on the free market (eliminate Dept of Energy & Dept. of Commerce)
    • The right to process money that is not a violation of the constitution, (Eliminate Federal Reserve & IRS)
    • The right to have my state legislature appoint the members of the Senate (repeal 17th Amendment)
    • The right to teach my child in a way that I feel is appropriate and not dictated by federal mandates (eliminate Dept. of Edu.)
    • The right to choose my healthcare and not be mandated by the federal government (repeal Obama Care)
    • The right to allow the free market and capitalism to run its course without government interference ( restructure HUD, and eliminate Dept. of Commerce & Dept. of Energy. Restrict Congress…)
    • The right to have performance to be more of a factor than union membership for employment status (Eliminate Dept. of Commerce)
    • The right to have national defense within our country and not have militaristic interference in other parts of the world (Consolidate and restructure the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, ATF, DEA, State Department, Branches of the Military, and many others)
    • The right to not only own and carry a weapon of my choice, but also have the ammunition to load into it (Repeal Brady Bill restructure departments noted above)
    • The right to not wonder if the government is reading my e-mails or listening to my phone calls (repeal the Patriot Act)
    • The right not to have commercial or unions influence in terms of lobbyists. (ummm EVERYONE)
    Don't forget, all laws passed by Congress shall be applied to those members in Congress the same as they are applied to their constituents (us).

  19. #44
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by shell_waster View post
    Don't forget, all laws passed by Congress shall be applied to those members in Congress the same as they are applied to their constituents (us).
    You are right, I forgot that one! Great catch!
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  20. #45
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    I definitely to the right of most people here already, but here is one situation recently that made me so mad.

    At the place I work right now, I have a co-worker who is purposely being a terrible employee (tardiness, leaving early, skipping days, working very slowly, etc) just to get fired so he could go on unemployment, and then some forms of welfare. I know this because he outright told the rest of us employees. What made it sad was that most of the employees cheered him on for sticking it the man. Sigh. He also has apparently doen this with every job he's every had and he's close to 40 now.

    Then it gets a bit worse. He goes to weddings of people he knows, tells the kitchen staff that he's taking the leftovers to a soup kitchen, and then just takes it home to pig out for a few weeks.

    some people just...

  21. #46
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ddomin4360 View post
    I definitely to the right of most people here already, but here is one situation recently that made me so mad.

    At the place I work right now, I have a co-worker who is purposely being a terrible employee (tardiness, leaving early, skipping days, working very slowly, etc) just to get fired so he could go on unemployment, and then some forms of welfare. I know this because he outright told the rest of us employees. What made it sad was that most of the employees cheered him on for sticking it the man. Sigh. He also has apparently doen this with every job he's every had and he's close to 40 now.

    Then it gets a bit worse. He goes to weddings of people he knows, tells the kitchen staff that he's taking the leftovers to a soup kitchen, and then just takes it home to pig out for a few weeks.

    some people just...

    In TX, you can be denied unemployment if you're fired for cause.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  22. #47
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ddomin4360 View post
    I definitely to the right of most people here already, but here is one situation recently that made me so mad.

    At the place I work right now, I have a co-worker who is purposely being a terrible employee (tardiness, leaving early, skipping days, working very slowly, etc) just to get fired so he could go on unemployment, and then some forms of welfare. I know this because he outright told the rest of us employees. What made it sad was that most of the employees cheered him on for sticking it the man. Sigh. He also has apparently doen this with every job he's every had and he's close to 40 now.

    Then it gets a bit worse. He goes to weddings of people he knows, tells the kitchen staff that he's taking the leftovers to a soup kitchen, and then just takes it home to pig out for a few weeks.

    some people just...

    Most states (actually I thought all??) disqualify you from unemployment if you are fired.

    Edit: Looks like it is the same in new Jersey also. You can't get unemployment if you are fired. http://unemploymenthandbook.com/stat...-you-get-fired
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  23. #48
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    In Hawaii you only get unemployment if you are laid off or fired for no fault of your own. I think most states are that way.

    Not that it is a very kind thing to do ddomin4360, but then again neither is intentionally getting fired so the rest of us have to pick up his slack, so I would document what he said and hand it up to the boss. Then he can be fired through fault of his own and suck a lemon.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    In TX, you can be denied unemployment if you're fired for cause.
    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Most states (actually I thought all??) disqualify you from unemployment if you are fired.

    Edit: Looks like it is the same in new Jersey also. You can't get unemployment if you are fired. http://unemploymenthandbook.com/stat...-you-get-fired
    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    In Hawaii you only get unemployment if you are laid off or fired for no fault of your own. I think most states are that way.

    Not that it is a very kind thing to do ddomin4360, but then again neither is intentionally getting fired so the rest of us have to pick up his slack, so I would document what he said and hand it up to the boss. Then he can be fired through fault of his own and suck a lemon.
    I am actually quitting (beginning my Master's program) in a few weeks, so when I give notice in a week I will let them know. Also, I'm just saying what he told us during break.

    I just remember that he paid a "crackhead" $40 bucks to use his Foodstamp card for the month. So he's been living large with Lobster and what not, off the other person's foodstamp money. He actually showed us the card and everything, so this is definitely true.

  25. #50
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    I don't have my inner conservative. He believed in capital punishment, so I executed him.
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