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Thread: Occupy Wall Street

  1. #1
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    Occupy Wall Street

    Today is day 11 of Occupy Wall Street. For those not yet in the know, here you go:

    Photos
    website
    Occupy Your Brain!

  2. #2
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    It really tells us a lot about who is in control of the government and the media that this and other similar populist movements are scarcely reported on, yet a gathering of smaller groups of "tea partiers" are widely covered and followed.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    I like the concept, but what is truly disappointing about the ordeal is that this form of protest has barely any effect anymore. The people that need to be at these events in order to make an impact are the average Jane and Joe, but the average Jane and Joe cannot afford to be there, much less get time off from work without going homeless for such a demonstration. Though I admire the effort, movements based on physical presence are a thing of the past. Real change seems to only be achievable through electronic media and legislation, and legislation has been bought and paid for.

    We desperately need a third party, a central and moderate party. Judging from history, things will need to get a lot worse before a critical mass is reached to achieve such a resolution.

    Tea-party supports and liberals are both discontent with the way things are going, yet use ridiculously opposite philosophies for solutions. If both sides could sit down and work out a compromise, real change might happen. That will take people giving up their superiority complexes though... and for people to quit assuming they know everything.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  4. #4
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    Tea-party supports and liberals are both discontent with the way things are going, yet use ridiculously opposite philosophies for solutions.
    Unfortunately if they did sit doown as you suggest, the reality is they would begin by calling each other names, refuse to budge, and make the divisiveness worse.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  5. #5
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    We desperately need a third party, a central and moderate party. Judging from history, things will need to get a lot worse before a critical mass is reached to achieve such a resolution.
    I keep hoping that some rich person will just say screw it, I am going to fund a third party (hello Mr. Bloomberg). Because really that is what is missing, is the funding to begin setting up the framework for a third party.

    I would guess if someone could get $100 million, they would be able to set up what is necessary. Fundraising is different now, and with free social media blasts, a party that takes advantage of this is equal to the establishment.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  6. #6
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    I keep hoping that some rich person will just say screw it, I am going to fund a third party (hello Mr. Bloomberg). Because really that is what is missing, is the funding to begin setting up the framework for a third party.

    I would guess if someone could get $100 million, they would be able to set up what is necessary. Fundraising is different now, and with free social media blasts, a party that takes advantage of this is equal to the establishment.
    I don't know enough about Bloomberg, but I agree.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Brocktoon's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    It really tells us a lot about who is in control of the government and the media that this and other similar populist movements are scarcely reported on, yet a gathering of smaller groups of "tea partiers" are widely covered and followed.
    Damn bias from the lamestream media...even Ron Paul is getting more media coverage.

    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    I keep hoping that some rich person will just say screw it, I am going to fund a third party (hello Mr. Bloomberg). Because really that is what is missing, is the funding to begin setting up the framework for a third party.

    I would guess if someone could get $100 million, they would be able to set up what is necessary. Fundraising is different now, and with free social media blasts, a party that takes advantage of this is equal to the establishment.
    I have always wondered why any third party movement has not spent more efforts to grow a party organicly at the state and congressional level first rather than just try to hit a home run by winning the presidency. If a third party won 5-7 seats in the Senate they would be able to have a great amount of influence in that body.
    "If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" General Eric Shinseki

  8. #8
    Cyburbian MacheteJames's avatar
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    This is what you get when a generation of students are coming out of school with no job prospects and crippling student loan debt. I've been down there and am heading back this weekend. This is the start of something real - don't let the cynics convince you otherwise. Yeah, it's messy and disorganized and has yet to coalesce into a set of concrete demands, but given the American Idol-ization of civic life in the US, it's like a person rediscovering muscles that they forgot that they even had.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian dw914er's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Hink_Planner View post
    I keep hoping that some rich person will just say screw it, I am going to fund a third party (hello Mr. Bloomberg). Because really that is what is missing, is the funding to begin setting up the framework for a third party.

    I would guess if someone could get $100 million, they would be able to set up what is necessary. Fundraising is different now, and with free social media blasts, a party that takes advantage of this is equal to the establishment.
    Like Koch and the Tea Party?

  10. #10
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Brocktoon View post
    Damn bias from the lamestream media...even Ron Paul is getting more media coverage.
    I'm not trying to say that the media is biased towards conservatives, but that the media is biased towards corporate and banking interests and the status quo of the power and wealth structure. That's one reason why Ron Paul continually gets shafted by the media - because a lot of his positions are threatening to the existing power structure (the other reason is because he's a loony-toon).



    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient
    Real change seems to only be achievable through electronic media and legislation, and legislation has been bought and paid for.
    The authorities are cracking down on social and electronic media. Not only the recent attempts at corporate control over the internet, but in many cities cell phone carriers are cooperating with government officials to cut off service in order to disrupt peaceful protests.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MacheteJames View post
    This is what you get when a generation of students are coming out of school with no job prospects and crippling student loan debt. I've been down there and am heading back this weekend. This is the start of something real - don't let the cynics convince you otherwise. Yeah, it's messy and disorganized and has yet to coalesce into a set of concrete demands, but given the American Idol-ization of civic life in the US, it's like a person rediscovering muscles that they forgot that they even had.
    My little brother is flying in from LA for the event and was hoping to network with some people to get a demonstration started in that city as well. I'll tell him to look for a guy named James who carries a Machete
    Occupy Your Brain!

  12. #12
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    We desperately need a third party, a central and moderate party. Judging from history, things will need to get a lot worse before a critical mass is reached to achieve such a resolution.

    Tea-party supports and liberals are both discontent with the way things are going, yet use ridiculously opposite philosophies for solutions. If both sides could sit down and work out a compromise, real change might happen. That will take people giving up their superiority complexes though... and for people to quit assuming they know everything.
    Back when I taught new manager classes, I always told my students that there were two ways to build teams. One to was to have a common goal and the other was to have a common enemy. Finding a common enemy is much faster than building a common goal but building a team around a common goal is much longer lasting.

    The problem with creating a viable 3rd party is that they tend to form around a common enemy so they form quickly and die quickly when the people realize that they don't have much else in common. .

    The reason that 3rd parties are difficult to form around a common goal is that the established parties are adept co-opting the issues and diluting the support.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  13. #13
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dw914er View post
    Like Koch and the Tea Party?
    More like George Soros and the Democrats.

    Mike

  14. #14
    Cyburbian dw914er's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by mgk920 View post
    More like George Soros and the Democrats.

    Mike
    I was choosing a more recent example which represented the creation of a new third party. But that's another good example of the "I encourage and support a political ideology which is best for America, but which will also make me alot more money!" kind of financial backer.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian The District's avatar
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    See link below. Regardless of your political and social views, it's hard to deny that what's happening with Occupy Wall Street looks more and more like the seeds of unrest elsewhere in the world--young people experiencing the painful realization of few prospects for a good future.

    http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

  16. #16
    Cyburbian safege's avatar
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    The reason they are there.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

    (hope this link works)

    Capitalism can circulate money, it can, but not lately.
    Psychotics are consistently inconsistent. The essence of sanity is to be inconsistently inconsistent.
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  17. #17
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Now that this is finally getting more press it's interesting to hear the reaction of the ruling class - that the bankers aren't to blame and are struggling to feed themselves, and that the common people are as much to blame for the economic situation than the banking and investment class. Bloomberg especially has been extremely tone-deaf and arrogant in his comments. I would say that this is not going to help the situation.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    The Dodd-Frank law has really put the brakes on lending activity, too, and in turn is making any hope for a genuine private-sector economic recovery all the more remote.

    <sigh...>

    Mike

  19. #19
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    I really admire those 'occupying' Wall Street and other cities around the US. For me it illustrates that 1-cities are becoming more important as economic generators for this county and not just the corporations that are located in those cities, but the people who live in cities and 2-that the prolonged economic downtown that began with the banking and real estate industries becoming greedy has had a big impact on today's youth (under thirty-fivers).

    Think about it, you go to college, have no real job prospects and its only the middle class and lower that hurting the most, meanwhile the people that caused this mess are still making money.

    Its ok that there isn't one message or that its not particularly organized, that will come with time...its a social revolution.
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  20. #20
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Those "occupying Wall Street" obviously don't have jobs and families to be able to sit there for weeks. That's what gets me about protests - they are done by people who don't have a foot in the "real world". This actually makes me wish I would have pushed off working to travel or something.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    I understand the anger but I don't understand why it's all targeted at the financial institutions. How can one percenters like George Soros and Michael Moore who support the protests not be seen as part of the problem? Don't they keep their money in financial institutions?
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  22. #22
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Those "occupying Wall Street" obviously don't have jobs and families to be able to sit there for weeks. That's what gets me about protests - they are done by people who don't have a foot in the "real world".
    Isn't that the point, it's the people who can't get work and/or can't start families because of the economy. Personally, while I am working my boyfriend is not which is preventing us from doing lots of things and I'm not the only one of my friends in this situation. We are not getting married, having children, buying a house, buying a new car, investing as much as we should in our future...if this county is not willing to invest in its future (the youth) then where are we heading?
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  23. #23
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    Isn't that the point, it's the people who can't get work and/or can't start families because of the economy. Personally, while I am working my boyfriend is not which is preventing us from doing lots of things and I'm not the only one of my friends in this situation. We are not getting married, having children, buying a house, buying a new car, investing as much as we should in our future...if this county is not willing to invest in its future (the youth) then where are we heading?
    All the reports I've read say there is no cohesive goal between the people - it just happens to be people who are disgruntled or mad about the economy. I think if there is one specific goal protests are much more likely to work. If they want to end corporate welfare then why don't they vote for people that will do that? If they argue banks are bad and they favor unions, then why don't they get the unions to pull their pensions funds out of these huge brokerage firms? I'm not saying these protests are "bad" but my mind is set up differently than people who protest - I've always thought change is better affected from the inside than outside.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian MacheteJames's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    All the reports I've read say there is no cohesive goal between the people - it just happens to be people who are disgruntled or mad about the economy. I think if there is one specific goal protests are much more likely to work. If they want to end corporate welfare then why don't they vote for people that will do that? If they argue banks are bad and they favor unions, then why don't they get the unions to pull their pensions funds out of these huge brokerage firms? I'm not saying these protests are "bad" but my mind is set up differently than people who protest - I've always thought change is better affected from the inside than outside.
    Sounds like your mind is that of a technocrat. The technocratic solutions put forth over the last 3 years have accomplished nothing, a generation of twenty-somethings are leaving school with suffocating debt and no work prospects, and hence they've taken to the streets. It really is that simple.

    BTW, I spent some time down there this past weekend and there are people from all walks of life demonstrating. Saw a number of folks in suits, which kind of undermines the meme of the demonstrators as just hippies with dreadlocks.

    http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

  25. #25
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MacheteJames View post
    Sounds like your mind is that of a technocrat. The technocratic solutions put forth over the last 3 years have accomplished nothing
    Nor have the populous solutions.

    The stories about medical problems on that website are pretty sad.
    Last edited by stroskey; 04 Oct 2011 at 11:58 AM.
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

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