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Thread: Article: Professors to get a pass on AICP

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Article: Professors to get a pass on AICP

    AIB NJ Cyburbian

    Article from that other site: No-Exam Bylaws Amendment for Planning Faculty Will Cheapen AICP Certification

    I agree this will cheapen the value.
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    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    I agree. There is no reason faculty should be treated differently. The authors are correct in stating that AICP is a designation for practicing planners and that most faculty have never been in the practice.

    I do not have a copy of my November Interact. Can somebody post the link to where we can reply to this proposal?
    Last edited by Cardinal; 29 Nov 2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Added request for link
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  3. #3
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    I believe this link will get you there to comment:

    http://www.planning.org/aicp/faculty...rServiceID=531

    No other profession that I'm aware of gives tenured faculty a bye for a certification. Not engineers. Not architects.

    There are a lot of planning professors out there that despite having Piled it High and Deep, couldn't pass the AICP certification exam because they lack the practical experience necessary to know how to properly apply what they preach.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  4. #4
    It's not the end of the world that the article author says it would be.

    It's just a dumb idea.

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    From the APA site. Note the December 1 deadline for comments. If you're not AICP accredited, and have no access to the comment form, I suggest writing to aicp (at) planning (dot) org.

    Tenured Faculty Membership Program

    Under the terms of the Tenured Faculty Membership Program, AICP will invite currently tenured faculty in planning programs accredited by the Planning Accreditation Board to apply to join if they are not already AICP members. In the future, faculty who are granted tenure at PAB-accredited programs will be invited to apply for AICP membership. As with individuals who pass the Comprehensive Planning Examination, their membership in AICP will take effect when they pay APA, chapter, and AICP dues in full.
    Responding to changes in the planning academy

    AICP developed the Tenured Faculty Membership Program in response to extensive changes in U.S. planning programs. Thirty-five years ago, academic planning departments were "recognized" by the American Institute of Planners. Today, planning programs are accredited by the Planning Accreditation Board, a body established by APA and its professional institute, AICP, in concert with the Association of Collegiate Schools of Planning. Increasingly, the PAB considers outcomes such as pass rates on the AICP exam when it evaluates a program.

    In the early 1970s, many planning faculty were recruited directly from the field of practice and arrived on campus with an AIP credential awarded after an oral interview that served as the threshold exam. Few had doctorates. In 2011, doctoral degrees are common among individuals who join planning faculties at accredited university programs. Research and publication are expected and are key criteria for the grant of tenure. Achieving tenure typically requires an extensive, written application that must be approved at several academic levels such as department, school, and university.

    The AICP Commission invites feedback

    The AICP Commission would like to hear from members before finalizing the program. Please read the questions and answers below and use the "Contact Us" section that follows to submit additional comments or questions about the Tenured Faculty Membership Program, no later than December 1, 2011.

    Q: Who is eligible for the Tenured Faculty Membership Program?
    A: Faculty of planning programs accredited by the Planning Accreditation Board are eligible. Any faculty member in a PAB-accredited planning program may apply once he or she is granted tenure. Faculty members of non PAB-accredited programs are not eligible at this time.

    Q: Is passing the Comprehensive Planning Examination required?
    A: No. A university's grant of tenure requires an extensive written application that must be approved through a rigorous process that includes votes of approval at several stages. This will be considered as an alternative that is a written examination.

    Q: Do these members have to pay AICP dues?
    A: Yes. Like all AICP members, they must pay APA, chapter, and AICP dues.

    Q: Do these members have to fulfill Certification Maintenance requirements?
    A: Yes. Like all AICP members, they must fulfill CM requirements: 32 CM credits every two years, 1.5 of which meet the law requirement and 1.5 of which meet the ethics requirement.

    Q: Is the reinstatement process any different for these members?
    A: No. Like all AICP members, they must comply with AICP's reinstatement policy. If an individual's membership lapses for more than four years, he or she must follow the application procedures for new AICP membership, which includes passing the Comprehensive Planning Exam.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  6. #6
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Evidently the AICP Commission wants more professors/academics to have the AICP credentials, but this seems to be a poor policy response to that problem.

    Dan: Can we forward the Cyburbian comments to the Commission?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    No-Exam Bylaws Amendment for Planning Faculty

    The AICP Commission wants to expand the institute's outreach to the planning academy by offering an alternative path to AICP membership to tenured faculty in programs accredited by the Planning Accreditation Board.

    The Commission has developed a Tenured Faculty Membership Program that will accept a university's grant of tenure as an alternative to the Comprehensive Planning Examination as a demonstration of the knowledge and skills required for the AICP credential. Academic tenure is granted only after a faculty member completes a rigorous multi-part, multi-level review process that requires extensive written materials that document the applicant's accomplishments.

    More information about the Tenured Faculty Membership Program is on our website. The Commission invites AICP member feedback before finalizing the program. Please submit comments online no later than December 1. http://planning.org/interact/aicp/2011/nov.htm ; http://www.planning.org/aicp/faculty...rServiceID=531.

    I do not agree that Faculty should not be required to take the test.

    Moderator note:
    merged with existing thread in Make No Small Plans. Left a 3 day redirect to make sure people still find this thread from the Career subforum

    SR
    Last edited by Suburb Repairman; 29 Nov 2011 at 11:37 AM.
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  8. #8
    Cyburbian
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    A lot of programs teach for the AICP exam anyways so one would assume the faculty would know enough to be able to successfully pass the test themselves. In reality, I know that isn't the case. Many times the professors have their own little niche in the profession and are largely ignorant of what their colleagues are doing.

    I'm honestly kind of conflicted on this one. Tenured professors have no reason to ever expand outside their little research niche so I see no harm in certifying them. On the other hand, they should have a sufficient knowledge base to actually know what is happening in the profession they're supposed to be teaching for. It's not like it'd be that hard for them to study for the exam either.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Mods: We should merge the two threads we have going on this discussion:

    http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showt...a-pass-on-AICP

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Tobinn's avatar
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    AICP pulling a fast one

    Let's face it, AICP has been pulling a fast one since introducing the continuing education credit program. They made the system difficult and "onerous" (word used a few years ago by my local FAPA chapter - Suncoast) to become a credit provider and have pretty much made it so that only they and APA (is there really a difference) are the only ones (for all intents and purposes) who can provide the very credits AICP requires. I have no problem with the requirement to keep learning and improve oneself but to hold a virtual monopoly on the provision of those credits is underhanded and dishonest. Yes, there are opportunities to get free credits. That's about the best I can do as my employer has set budget aside for my attendance at State or National APA conferences.

    Can there be any surprise that AICP board is looking to quietly eliminate the testing requirement that the rest of us "little people" had to go through in what really amounts to cronyism. Look, if they can't pass the test then perhaps they shouldn't be teaching the subject. Just a thought. What are they afraid of?

    Boy, if this sort of thing doesn't put a bee in my bonnet.
    Last edited by Tobinn; 29 Nov 2011 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Well, I went online and left my comments. Not that it'll do any good but what the heck.
    At times like this, you have to ask yourself, "WWJDD?"
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  11. #11
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Suburb Repairman View post
    No other profession that I'm aware of gives tenured faculty a bye for a certification. Not engineers. Not architects.
    IMHO this is yet another reason why this 'certification' is not taken seriously on the ground.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    I also think this is a horrible policy.

    In my undergraduate program, the planning portion of the program was horrible and was led by a professor who had no real world experience as a planner. This individual consistently made the claim that "planning is not political." LMAO. Yeah, he deserved AICP for his wisdom alone.

    Furthermore, the test already allows university professors to count their teaching experience towards the requirements. Why shouldn't they have to take the test?

    Hell, if ANYONE should have to take that test, it should be the very folks who are responsible for creating the next generation of planners.

    I wonder how long it will be until there is another organization that can take over for APA's incompetence. I know in California, AEP is pretty darn close to taking that mantle... but that's just California (California's AEP I believe is larger than all other AEP chapters combined, if I'm not mistaken).
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Any word on the reputation of CNU-A accreditation?
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    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    I've submitted my objection to the proposal. I'll drop my objection when I'm granted a PhD for my years of professional practice and the fact that I'm AICP. BTW, isn't a bit unfair that they're going to be expected to pay dues too?

    Footnote: At the time that the AICP certification was developed, those members who had a certain number of years of professional experience were "grandfathered" into AICP. I lacked about a year of experience and was not granted certification but was eligible to take the exam. I find it ironic that, as those who were grandfathered in are now retiring or expiring out of the profession, there is a movement to bring another crop of "untested" AICP into the fold.
    Last edited by ofos; 29 Nov 2011 at 1:53 PM.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

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    Cyburbian
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    well this wins todays bullshit award

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    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Am I understaning this right? Will this cheapen my AICP credential? If so, why the hell am I paying $350 annually plus having to take lots of classes on top of it? Will professors need to take the classes to maintain their AICP? Why would a Prof need an AICP anyway?

    Will the Profs that now have thier AICPs be miffed that they had to work harder for it?
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Good to see the APA Watchdog site again again with the news.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Good to see the APA Watchdog site again again with the news.
    They proudly state Cyburbia site of the day from 2007...maybe it's time to re-up that?
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

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    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    They proudly state Cyburbia site of the day from 2007...maybe it's time to re-up that?
    Might be good timing... maybe they'll scratch our back a little in return...

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  20. #20
    Cyburbian Tobinn's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Good to see the APA Watchdog site again again with the news.
    Dan, you beat me to the post. I just got an email from the APA Watchdog. I emailed the APA president and my regional commissioner - not that I have any hopes but I did what I can.
    At times like this, you have to ask yourself, "WWJDD?"
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  21. #21
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Email to APA members. Reading between the lines, the message I get is "We received a lot of email expressing opposition to the idea, and we're still going forward with it."

    Quote Originally posted by Anna Breinich, AICP
    Tenured Faculty Membership Program Proposal

    Over the past week, I have personally heard from over a hundred AICP members interested in the proposal before the Commission to create a membership program for tenured faculty at PAB-accredited planning programs. That's in addition to those members that read the online materials posted on November 11 and submitted comments through the website. I must say that my fellow Commissioners and I appreciate the dialog.

    The Commission is considering a proposal to invite tenured faculty of PAB-accredited programs to apply for AICP membership. If qualified, the member would then be accepted without taking the exam. The grant of tenure, which requires extensive written materials and, typically, three or more levels of approval, is being considered as an acceptable alternative to the written Comprehensive Planning Exam. National and chapter leaders discussed the proposal on several occasions at APA's 2011 fall leadership meetings held in September in Washington, D.C. The proposal was also discussed with the American Collegiate Schools of Planning at their annual meetings in October. The Commission then decided to post the proposal for AICP member comment which was done through the November 11, 2011 edition of APA Interact for Certified Planners.

    In developing the draft Tenured Faculty Membership Program proposal, the Commission struggled with many of the concerns raised by members. The eight AICP Commissioners are professional planners, elected from among AICP membership, trying to address a long-standing, difficult challenge of reaching out effectively to planning educators without undermining the value of the AICP credential. We feel this is one way to strengthen our profession and connectivity to those educating future planners.

    We do look forward to a continued, more respectful and substantive dialogue with members on this issue and your thoughtful suggestions for improvement. I strongly encourage you to read the detailed information available online about the proposal, along with the form for submitting comments. After reviewing comments, we will offer an additional comment period on a more finalized draft.

    Sincerely,

    Anna Breinich, AICP
    President of AICP
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  22. #22
    Cyburbian Tarf's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Email to APA members. Reading between the lines, the message I get is "We received a lot of email expressing opposition to the idea, and we're still going forward with it."

    I like how the last paragraph references the need for more "respectful...dialogue." By that, I'm interpreting that they got some comments alright, and they weren't exactly in support of the proposal OR "respectful"

    We should start a Cyburbia campaign to oust the AICP board if they go through with the proposal. (Do they allow recall campaigns? ).

    Of course, what do I care, I'm not even AICP, since it takes APA 2 months to read a test score
    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. (Douglas Adams)

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Even on the PAB website there are just a few public comments against this.
    http://www.planningaccreditationboar...dex.php?id=146
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  24. #24
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Email to APA members. Reading between the lines, the message I get is "We received a lot of email expressing opposition to the idea, and we're still going forward with it."
    That was pretty much the same reaction I had. It's kind of funny in a sad way that this is happening at the same time that APA is doing the series on improving communication. Aren't planners supposed to engage with the public early in the process and before making plans? Do as we say, not as we do.

    Perhaps we could grant them honorary AICP certs, that should be the status equivalent of an honorary PhD.
    Last edited by ofos; 30 Nov 2011 at 11:47 PM.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  25. #25
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    I sent in my opposition and got several others to do the same.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

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