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Thread: Brave Patriots don't want bike lanes on public ROWs

  1. #1
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Brave Patriots don't want bike lanes on public ROWs

    I'm telling you, I'm seeing a business opportunity here - what would I name this service...

    “It's hard to get an idea in edgewise when you're working with that mentality,”

    Tea party activists interrupt regional planning meeting in Santa Rosa
    By JULIE JOHNSON
    THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
    Published: Monday, January 9, 2012 at 3:00 a.m.

    Tensions flared Monday evening during discussions about a long-range plan for land use as well as roads, trains and other transportation systems in Sonoma County and the Bay Area.

    Representatives of the Association of Bay Area Governments and Metropolitan Transportation Commission held the meeting at Santa Rosa's Finley Community Center to discuss what the region could look like in 2040 and to get input on transportation, housing and other land uses.

    A vocal group of about 20 tea party activists interrupted the speakers and audience with charges that the government can't be trusted.

    A woman pushed a sign that read “protect property rights” close to Santa Rosa Councilman Gary Wysocky, who was in audience.

    “Get out of my face,” Wysocky said.

    “Get out of my council,” she said...

    “We're tired of being pushed around,” said Mary Anne Black of Petaluma. “They want to force us, but I don't want a bike path in front of my property.”...
    Organizers shortened their presentation about the plan at the start of the meeting after people protested that there wasn't enough time for public comment, said Joan Chaplick, principal with MIG, a Berkeley-based planning firm involved in the project.

    “It's been lively,” Chaplick said.

    Many comments show people don't understand who holds power over land use decisions, said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Commission.

    “I'm glad it's generated this level of interest, but it's unfortunate that there's clearly a great deal of misinformation about the plan,” Goodwin said.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    I’ve been to many planning workshops and most, if not all, were characterized by differences of opinion and heated debate. However contentious the issue, people still treated each other with the respect that is typically afforded others in a free society. The Tea Party moonbats show no modicum of respect for anyone that doesn’t share their delusional worldview. They enter the room in order to disrupt civil discourse, not to contribute anything meaningful to it. I take comfort in the fact that most people are rational and level-headed, and able see through the Tea Party agenda for what it really is: nothing more than a series of preposterous and hateful conspiracy theories.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    If I had Bill Gates money I would go to these towns and show people how gov't really does protect private property. I'd revoke all zoning (you know, smaller government) and then buy the land around their house and put in a hog confinement.

    But the thing that gets me fired up is that people say the gov't is taking away their freedoms. Name three things you want to do but can't because of the government (not three things you don't want to do that the government forces you to do i.e. pay taxes).
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    I’ve been to many planning workshops and most, if not all, were characterized by differences of opinion and heated debate. However contentious the issue, people still treated each other with the respect that is typically afforded others in a free society. The Tea Party moonbats show no modicum of respect for anyone that doesn’t share their delusional worldview. They enter the room in order to disrupt civil discourse, not to contribute anything meaningful to it. I take comfort in the fact that most people are rational and level-headed, and able see through the Tea Party agenda for what it really is: nothing more than a series of preposterous and hateful conspiracy theories.
    Wow! That is a very nice rant!

    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    If I had Bill Gates money I would go to these towns and show people how gov't really does protect private property. I'd revoke all zoning (you know, smaller government) and then buy the land around their house and put in a hog confinement.
    .
    I worked on one of the campaigns a few years ago against one of the Koch-backed anti-zoning...erm....private property rights initiatives, we went to all the public meetings, rallies, etc. It was shellacked at the polls, like all the others save for AZ as it piggy-backed on an anti-Kelo bill.

    At any rate, it was very easy to have folks understand the impact of its passage, as we'd describe this very scenario, with the liquid waste flowing over their petunias and they would have to sue in court to have it stop. Amazing how quickly people realize that zoning protects their property rights. And very simple to do, all you need is maybe 6-7-8 sentences maximum, using the hog farm, or giant casino, or NASCAR raceway, or girlie bar, or or or.

    I wonder if the solution for these lunatic fringe dwellers is to forcefully tell them to wait their turn, and if they won't have the cops show them the door. Rural areas this could be a problem, but have a patrol car on alert around 7:00...
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Random Traffic Guy's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Bt the thing that gets me fired up is that people say the gov't is taking away their freedoms. Name three things you want to do but can't because of the government (not three things you don't want to do that the government forces you to do i.e. pay taxes).
    This is really headed for the FAC, but are you serious? Look through the zoning and code enforcement discussions here, much less the mutliple levels of regulatory authority affecting more and more parts of private life.
    Operate an office or retail shop in a residential area.
    Renting out a room in a house.
    Build a fence, shed, or pond on private land, or even modify a house (historical protections in addition to general permitting for renovations).
    Have more than X unrelated people living in a house.
    Perform engineering, medical services, hair dressing, or interior decoration without a predefined education and license.
    Trade time and effort for money without being represented by a union.
    Gay marriage, or even types of consensual activity in some places.
    Sexual services for money.
    Production, trade, and ingestion of drugs and alcohol.
    Buy laundry or dishwashing detergent with phosphates.
    Food with trans-fats in NYC.
    Smoking in restaurants.
    Run a chain restaurant without displaying caloric values on menus.


    As ColoGI says, most of the restrictions were presumably applied with proper procedure and were widely accepted at least at the time of imposition. But don't pretend they aren't restrictions!

  6. #6
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    Name three things you want to do but can't because of the government (not three things you don't want to do that the government forces you to do i.e. pay taxes).
    Murder... rape... and have a HUGE drug-op in my basement. Oh, did I say that out loud?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Random Traffic Guy View post
    This is really headed for the FAC, but are you serious? Look through the zoning and code enforcement discussions here, much less the mutliple levels of regulatory authority affecting more and more parts of private life.
    Operate an office or retail shop in a residential area.
    Renting out a room in a house.
    Build a fence, shed, or pond on private land, or even modify a house (historical protections in addition to general permitting for renovations).
    Have more than X unrelated people living in a house.
    Perform engineering, medical services, hair dressing, or interior decoration without a predefined education and license.
    Trade time and effort for money without being represented by a union.
    Gay marriage, or even types of consensual activity in some places.
    Sexual services for money.
    Production, trade, and ingestion of drugs and alcohol.
    Buy laundry or dishwashing detergent with phosphates.
    Food with trans-fats in NYC.
    Smoking in restaurants.
    Run a chain restaurant without displaying caloric values on menus.


    As ColoGI says, most of the restrictions were presumably applied with proper procedure and were widely accepted at least at the time of imposition. But don't pretend they aren't restrictions!
    Perhaps to modify Stroskey's comment about zoning protecting people's rights, its worth mentioning that these "restrictions" placed on one party are there because they are determined to "infringe" on another's. The zoning process, for example, is largely there to ensure that land use activities do not cause these harms. Its not (or at least should not be) about making people do unfair things. Building a shed in your 15 foot front yard setback? Yeah, that's gonna negatively impact your neighbor. Smoking in public places around non-smokers, including children now that we understand the risks? Yes, the rationale is that this "freedom" actually impinges on another's. But no one is telling people they can't smoke on their own property.

    We can quibble about some of these, and I would concede that the Gay marriage issue is a huge one for me. That is something government is preventing people from doing that infringes on personal rights and civil liberties. That seems plain as day to me and I believe the laws will change soon to reflect that. But the system is not perfect and that is why we have the ooption for redress of girevances - to change things that are unfair.

    My objection to the obstructionist nature of some (and I include the whole political spectrum here) who come to complain and stop actions without engaging in the process by explaining how they feel this infringes not only their rights but the rights of others. To object to a bike lane in front of one's house when its in the public right of way and enhances movement of said public without explaining why this creates a hardship for the homeowner just comes off as selfish. Community involves comprimise and the ability to put yourself in other peoples' positions. I'm not happy with the two story garage behind me across the alley, but they went through the proper procedure and I can't say it really negatively impacts my property. I just think its ugly. But bad taste is not a crime. I deal with it. What's the big deal?
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by stroskey View post
    But the thing that gets me fired up is that people say the gov't is taking away their freedoms. Name three things you want to do but can't because of the government (not three things you don't want to do that the government forces you to do i.e. pay taxes).
    Ooh, I'll play!

    1. Buy clove cigarettes - I used to smoke them very occasionally, usually for special occasions. The Obama administration made the illegal. Apparently, the companies got around it by calling them clove cigars, which jacked up the price.
    2. Make bourbon - I've toured a couple distilleries and it doesn't look that hard. Unfortunatly, the goverment would miss their taxes, and I'd go to jail for my illegal still.
    3. Run my own radio station - I have an amateur radio license. I think it would be cool to get the equipment and start broadcasting, and it isn't that hard to do. Unfortunatly, the FCC disagrees.
    Back home just in time for hockey season!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Coragus View post
    Ooh, I'll play!

    1. Buy clove cigarettes - I used to smoke them very occasionally, usually for special occasions. The Obama administration made the illegal. Apparently, the companies got around it by calling them clove cigars, which jacked up the price.
    2. Make bourbon - I've toured a couple distilleries and it doesn't look that hard. Unfortunatly, the goverment would miss their taxes, and I'd go to jail for my illegal still.
    3. Run my own radio station - I have an amateur radio license. I think it would be cool to get the equipment and start broadcasting, and it isn't that hard to do. Unfortunatly, the FCC disagrees.
    Perfect! Well done.

    Me:

    1) Grow hemp for fiber and 1a) phytoremediation in place of cotton.
    2) Walk through an airport with my bike bottle full of water.
    3) Raze my house and put up greenhouses in its place, for year-round food production.

    Very, very simple things.

    What about others? Any simple freedoms curtailed due to antiquated or ossified ideas?
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Hmmmm... I might (hypothetically):
    1) Run a high-stakes poker game out of my apartment, or bring in a craps table for that matter;
    2) Grow some hydroponic weed in my closet. I don't smoke, but I'm sure I wouldn't have much difficulty finding a buyer for my crop (plus, I already have a bunch of indoor house plants and tending to a pot plant would really be "stepping it up a notch", horticulturally speaking).
    3) Remove the muffler on my truck (just for the heck of it)

  11. #11
    Cyburbian mgk920's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Coragus View post
    Ooh, I'll play!

    3. Run my own radio station - I have an amateur radio license. I think it would be cool to get the equipment and start broadcasting, and it isn't that hard to do. Unfortunatly, the FCC disagrees.
    If you really do hold a ham license, you'll know about Part 15 of the FCC regs that cover low-power broadcasting. How do you think the 'Talking House' transmitters that the real estate guys use are regulated? Get one on get on the air!

    In fact, in north suburban Atlanta, GA, there is a network of 'Part 15' transmitters that operate as 'Radio Sandy Springs'.

    Mike

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