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Thread: Hazing

  1. #1
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Hazing

    Although there’s something inherently funny about humiliating group initiation rituals (think of the classic “thank you sir- may I have another?” paddling scene from Animal House), hazing seems to be one topic that’s approached “not cool to joke about” territory in recent years due to some pretty horrible incidents involving young people abusing each other in one form or another. For whatever reason, hazing seems to be one of those things where “lines get crossed”, as they say. An innocent idea for a prank can turn into something far crueler, and with today’s social media and smartphone technology it’s much harder for anything to remain a secret. The worst and most-publicized cases of hazing abuse have led many organizations to adopt strict anti-hazing policies to prohibit even the most lighthearted of pranks. Still, there are some people who defend hazing as being essential to building a sense of camaraderie, presumably as long as “the line doesn’t get crossed”, however that may be interpreted. What is your opinion of hazing? Have you ever been subjected to a hazing ritual?

  2. #2
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    I have been hazed. It was not fun. I didn't find it to be anything other than an initiation rite... something "everyone" went through. I don't really think it is necessary in sports. I was lucky enough to have it happen by a future NFL offensive lineman.

    I think those who defend it do so for the "tradition". Personally, a tradition of playing Parcheesi would work too. I think hazing also puts younger players in their place. I think there is some basis for that... but hazing just goes to far too often. Carrying pads, or doing laundry is one thing. Getting soccer balls kicked at your naked body, or being wedgied until you bleed is another completely. Unfortunately it seems that the line is often too easily crossed.
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  3. #3
    Cyburbian stroskey's avatar
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    I was in a frat for 2 years (ugh) and we didn't have any hazing. I've never been into that kind of thing (probably why I don't have many male friends - also why I didn't like the frat) so I don't buy it as a "team builder". Why can't the teams do something constructive do build camaraderie?
    I burned down the church to atone for my transgressions.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian mike gurnee's avatar
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    If only the FAICP dudes were allowed to talk about their initiation.

  5. #5
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    I was in a fraternity way back when, so yes... Ours wasn't very hardcore, but it did bring the pledge class together. In all, I remember it as a fun experience. Now, we also got a chance to watch the guys next door haze their pledges, due to some holes in a blacked out basement window. If someone had tried to get me to "elephant walk" or some of the other really demeaning activities, I'd have left. After all, why would I want a brother who would want to do that crap to me?
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  6. #6
    Cyburbian HomerJ's avatar
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    I really dislike the idea of hazing when it comes to joining a sports team. I could understand if the coach does some sort of "hell-week" to seperate out better athletes or something similar in nature, but other than that I don't see what good could come of it.

    If someone simply wants to join a frat or sorority and s/he is willing to endure the hazing, I say let 'em. More entertainment for me to hear about the ridiculous things people will do just to be part of a club.

    As a sidenote, some hazing rituals I'd probably be willing to do (because some do sound pretty funny), it's the fact that you pay to join a frat. Seems an awful lot like buying your friends...
    Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Plus JNA's avatar
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    When I
    worked in the oilfield I was baptized on a drilling rig by a drilling mud shower - mud underpressure blowing out.
    was on the volunteer fire dept there was no hazing when I joined or was promoted.
    Oddball
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  8. #8
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    In some ways Marine boot camp is little more than a 13 week long hazing ritual. Yes, it's much more than that and a whole lot of information/acculturation is absorbed during this interval, but the hazing portion itself - that is, all the ridicule and humiliation part, represents a pretty big chunk of the experience. An officer explained to me after boot camp that it's intended to be the most trying experience most people get outside of combat. They are trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. How successful they are is perhaps debatable but that is their rationale.

    What defense can possibly be made for hazing? I suppose shared suffering often brings people together and can improve group cohesion (i.e. "I got through that hazing experience I can pretty much take anything so-and-so can dish out.") Know that the people within the group are committed strongly enough to want to belong that they also willingly sacrificed their dignity when they faced the same trials/humiliation others in the group did conveys something about their commitment to the group.
    Last edited by Maister; 09 Jan 2012 at 4:02 PM.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I was in a fraternity and a drum line and there was 'initiation' but it was so far from hazing it could be called silly. Looking back on it, in both cases it was fun, adventurous, and I don't think that any laws were broken in the process. Hell week +1 in drum line was far more likely to be classified as hazing. It was some of the hardest times of my life, but some of the best memories. It also established a very tight bond and I think was extremely valuable as I transitioned from HS to college.

    The fraternity was not what I expected it to be, so I bailed on that very quickly.

    I think that there is a fine line between between what is and is not hazing. I would say that without question, anything that involves heavy pressure to consume alcohol, drugs, or to participate in activities that would be severely detrimental to one's health, as a way to 'fit in' to a particular group is without question hazing. However, I am reminded of a scene in one of the Van Wilder movies where a bunch of fraternity pledges are standing on chairs, blindfolded, and only wearing their underwear while someone is walking around with a hammer and a bucket of broken glass. The pledges are then to jump off the chairs and land on what is actually Doritos. It is a physiological thing that has no physical harm.

    However, I think that sometimes people get too worked up about these things. I don't think it is too much for a blindfolded freshman in a drum line to play a massive game of Simon says using the typical marching commands while others are yelling out different commands and shooting people with small hand held squirt guns.... but that situation was called 'hazing' by some school down south.
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  10. #10
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    Like Maister, some would probably call my experiences in Marine Corps boot camp to be hazing. Although, having gone through the process quite a few years after Maister, he might not consider the pampered treatment we received in comparison to him as hazing.

    Once I was out in the Fleet, there were always stories of folks getting hazed (earning their Blood Stripe, having their jump wings or chevrons pinned on, etc.) and there were always talks from command talking about how hazing would not be tolerated. In 6 years of active service, I was never hazed when being promoted or coming into a new unit or anything. I also never heard from a single friend who ever experienced any hazing. Yet everybody knew somebody who knew somebody who was hazed...

    Flash forward a few years... My current employer has been hazing us by lowering our pay each year for the past few years and I expect said hazing to continue for a couple more.
    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - 1980 Republican presidential candidate Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    Like Maister, some would probably call my experiences in Marine Corps boot camp to be hazing. Although, having gone through the process quite a few years after Maister, he might not consider the pampered treatment we received in comparison to him as hazing.
    Yes, well I served back in the Old Corps. None of the pampered resort-like experience you "endured". You probably looked at pictures of an obstacle course, and maybe had a group discussion of what it would be like to rappel off a 100' tower. And your DI's were required to say 'please' and 'thank you'. Incidently, the 'Old Corps' ended the day before you joined (whatever day that was)

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    "hazing" in my time were more of adventures. Nothing physical could take place (some campus-wide rule).

    For the frat pledges were gather at the house then put in a car blindfolded and dropped off in the boonies. My big-brother whispered in my ear "walk one mile north, you'll know where you are." so we got there, borrowed a quarter and called someone to get us. The trick was only one pledge ever got told when dropeed off, so the others had to trust the one. I didn't know that at the time, but found out later. Another night was we were taken to an abandoned dilapidated schoolhouse and a few brothers jumped out of the shadows to scare us.

    For soccer team, freshmen clothes were "stolen" on a road trip and we'd have to ride back to campus with just the wet towel we used to dry off after showering. About half way home we were given a "game worn" jersey and shorts (smelly / stinky) and when we got back to campus our clothes magically were found.
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  13. #13
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    I think hazing is completely unnecessary, stupid, and immature. Fortunately, I have never been involved in hazing in any way, either as a victim or a perpetrator, but I know it's out there in many groups. And it's wrong. In college, I led an organization that was (and remains) one of the most powerful organizations on campus, routinely producing student body presidents and student trustees, and today, many elected officials and successful professionals in a diverse array of fields ranging from law to personal finance to restaurant ownership to real estate to accounting to military contracting to public administration. And I tell you, our organization's network is massive, our family-like bonds are alive and well, and these connections remain more powerful than that of most fraternities on our campus. In addition, the chapter has been (and remains) the most powerful chapter in the state and one of the most respected in the country.

    We established our group based on the things organizations are supposed to be built on: common principles & beliefs, common interests, friendship, leadership, respect, involvement, and a tremendous amount of fun and camaraderie. New members were welcomed and initiated by their continual involvement in all aspects of the organization, not by anything that was forceful, violent, or humiliating. It was basically, you show up enough to events and meetings, you work hard in the organization, you get along well with us, you treat people with respect, and you uphold good values and principles, and you will continue to be accepted and appreciated. Just like in any business or anything else in life.

    We have lots of traditions that we try to make sure are upheld, but none of them involve forced humiliation or physical abuse. Sure, some of them are unhealthy traditons, like heavy drinking and smoking, but none of these things are ever forced upon anyone, and there are plenty of respected people in the organization that don't engage in these things. In addition, new members are always welcome, and current leadership is always respected, including new ideas and traditions they bring to the table to move the group forward and make it better.

    Today, we have a large yet tightly-knit group that goes back 15+ years that routinely gets together for social and organizational events. I continue to provide guidance to the current students leading the group and continue to receive guidance from older members of the group that came before me.

    Bottom line...hazing is completely unnecessary. My group, which did not engage in hazing, is a prime example of how an organization can be extremely successful, powerful, and full of camaraderie and tradition without engaging in hazing.
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  14. #14
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
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    hazing you say...

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...assistant.html



    This is so unprofessional.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
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  15. #15
    Cyburbian Plus JNA's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    hazing you say...

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...assistant.html



    This is so unprofessional.
    and stupid.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  16. #16
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner View post
    I think hazing is completely unnecessary, stupid, and immature. Fortunately, I have never been involved in hazing in any way, either as a victim or a perpetrator, but I know it's out there in many groups. And it's wrong. In college, I led an organization that was (and remains) one of the most powerful organizations on campus, routinely producing student body presidents and student trustees, and today, many elected officials and successful professionals in a diverse array of fields ranging from law to personal finance to restaurant ownership to real estate to accounting to military contracting to public administration. And I tell you, our organization's network is massive, our family-like bonds are alive and well, and these connections remain more powerful than that of most fraternities on our campus. In addition, the chapter has been (and remains) the most powerful chapter in the state and one of the most respected in the country.

    We established our group based on the things organizations are supposed to be built on: common principles & beliefs, common interests, friendship, leadership, respect, involvement, and a tremendous amount of fun and camaraderie. New members were welcomed and initiated by their continual involvement in all aspects of the organization, not by anything that was forceful, violent, or humiliating. It was basically, you show up enough to events and meetings, you work hard in the organization, you get along well with us, you treat people with respect, and you uphold good values and principles, and you will continue to be accepted and appreciated. Just like in any business or anything else in life.

    We have lots of traditions that we try to make sure are upheld, but none of them involve forced humiliation or physical abuse. Sure, some of them are unhealthy traditons, like heavy drinking and smoking, but none of these things are ever forced upon anyone, and there are plenty of respected people in the organization that don't engage in these things. In addition, new members are always welcome, and current leadership is always respected, including new ideas and traditions they bring to the table to move the group forward and make it better.

    Today, we have a large yet tightly-knit group that goes back 15+ years that routinely gets together for social and organizational events. I continue to provide guidance to the current students leading the group and continue to receive guidance from older members of the group that came before me.

    Bottom line...hazing is completely unnecessary. My group, which did not engage in hazing, is a prime example of how an organization can be extremely successful, powerful, and full of camaraderie and tradition without engaging in hazing.
    I never cease to be amazed at how you turn every topic into a essay. Of course, I usually quit reading somewhere in the middle of the first paragraph.
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  17. #17
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    This thread is incomplete without at truly disgusting and horrible hazing example, so here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1253073.html

    Gives a new meaning to "Breakfast of Champions", huh?

  18. #18
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    -Flash forward a few years... My current employer has been hazing us by lowering our pay each year for the past few years and I expect said hazing to continue for a couple more.
    Wow your boss made it sound like it was Fat City there. A politico that tells half-truths? Is that possible?
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