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Thread: North Oak Creek (AIB De Noc)

  1. #1
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Warning: If you are bothered by fictional cities, don’t read.

    North Oak Creek

    Welcome to North Oak Creek, Population 47,000, “where history and progress unite.”

    This “Amish” Sim City is located in North Central Illinois between Chicago and Rockford. However Boone County and DeKalb County have pretty much been obliterated to make way for Oak County. All the towns in this area have been moved around, because of the location of this pretend city and its suburbs. Don’t worry, DeKalb and Belvidere are still here, just in different places.

    North Oak Creek is a more prosperous town located just north of Oak Creek, a city I have yet to make.

    North Oak Creek is like many edge cities. It has it all. It’s like Schaumburg or Gurnee, IL. Retail, restaurants, office parks, hotels, family amusements, charming historic downtown, different styles of residential, a glorious river and creek, and adjacent parkways. Much more information is yet to come.

    Thank you Bear for inspiring me with De Noc to post my Amish Sim City here. I don't think I'll ever get my city as big as De Noc, but I love my city nonetheless and will always strive to make it the best I can.

    I've been working on this on-and-off for 10 years (since I was 8). I've gone pretty slow, as my city shows actual parking spots and turn lanes. However, the downside is that my city is not fully to scale and the houses are all a bunch of tiny boxes, rather than varying shapes that are to scale with the rest of the town. Oh, and the city consists of about thirty-something pieces of white sketchpad paper taped together. It definitely takes up a good chunk of floor space.

    The details are to come…

    OK, I told you the rough location of North Oak Creek, but if you want to know where it is exactly, get out your Illinois map or turn to the Illinois map of your Road Atlas. Do you see Boone County and DeKalb County?? OK, now pretend that everything south of I-90 and north of I-88 in those two counties is turned to a clean slate. North Oak Creek would be just south of where the present-day town of Kingston is, as well as the surrounding areas. Oak Creek, the bigger yet-undesigned city and the other fictional city of Barclay are located where present-day DeKalb and Sycamore are. DeKalb and Sycamore are redesigned and are relocated just about where present-day Kirkland is. Genoa, Kingston, and Kirkland have all been relocated to the outskirts of this mini-metro.

    The Oak River and the Oak Creek run on a similar course to the present-day Kishwaukee River. The existing interstates in the area exist (and there are a lot more added as well), but the secondary roads and railroads are all changed around.

    OK, well while I show you around the city, you are probably going to want to book a hotel room. Where to stay, you might ask??

    Well, we have a lot of major hotel chains, scattered fairly evenly throughout the village. They are usually somewhat close to the freeways. Some are big, some are small. We also have a fine selection of bed & breakfasts as well as a fine downtown hotel. I would highly recommend them all, except for maybe the Amerihost, which is located in front of Wal-Mart.

    The hotels are ordered by size:
    Holiday Inn
    Hilton
    Radisson
    Best Western
    Ramada
    Amerihost
    Days Inn
    Majestic Valley Hotel (downtown)
    Creekside Bed & Breakfast
    Anne’s Garden Bed & Breakfast
    Town Square Bed & Breakfast

    Hungry?

    Alright, let's go get a bite to eat. If North Oak Creek isn't restaurant capital, then I don't know what is.

    Here's the fine selection of dining establishments. Please note that most strip center places (i.e. sub shops, bagel shops, pizza places, Chinese, ice cream, etc.) aren't included.

    McDonald’s (4)
    Burger King (2)
    Taco Bell (3)
    Arby’s (2)
    Wendy’s (3)
    KFC
    North Oak Creek Restaurant
    Culvers
    Ruby Tuesday
    California Pizza Kitchen
    Pizza Hut (2)
    IHOP
    Applebee’s
    Fazoli’s
    Brown’s Chicken
    The Rio Grande Tex-Mex
    Corner Bakery
    Town Pizza Parlor
    Papouli’s Family Restaurant
    Little Italy
    The Beijing Garden
    Seaside Palace
    Village Squire
    Colonial Restaurant & Ice Cream Parlor
    Nick’s Pizza & Pub
    Hardee’s
    Bennigan’s
    Denny’s
    Popeye’s
    White Castle
    Schlotzky’s Deli
    Boston Market
    Baker’s Square
    Steak & Shake
    Famous Dave’s BBQ
    Raleigh Roadhouse
    Portillo’s
    Joe’s Crab Shack
    Buffalo Wild Wings
    On the Border
    Red Robin
    Claddagh Irish Pub
    Lone Star Steakhouse
    Krispy Kreme
    Big Bowl Asian Kitchen
    Maggiano’s
    Panera Bread
    Hooters
    TGI Friday’s
    Olive Garden
    Red Lobster
    Outback Steakhouse
    Cracker Barrel
    Wildfire
    Giordano’s
    Chili’s
    Dunkin’ Donuts/Baskin Robbins (2)
    Max & Erma’s
    Red Star Tavern
    Houlihan’s
    Cheeseburger in Paradise
    Silver Spoon Cafe
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 19 Sep 2005 at 4:41 PM.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Hey, your city has a motto.....I gotta make one (1) for De Noc.

    Comments and questions about your restaurants:

    The number and content seem high and upscale, considering the population. Good justification if some interchange sprawl with the interestates. Good justification if North Oak Creek demographics indicate high personal incomes. (Sounds like North Oak Creek is the place that all the "movers and shakers" of Oak Creek go home to at night.)

    Is there someplace to research data such as number of restaurants per/capita? So we could compare North Oak Creek with De Noc with Davenport with Chicago with Minneapolis with etc. etc. etc. As part of my planning and justification for metro De Noc I ran across the following information (but I don't recall the source):

    National average for large metros: 5938 restaurants within 30 miles of central business district......Minneapolis has 3822 restaurants within 30 miles of central business district.
    _____

    When you locate a restaurant such as Mickey MacDonalds in your Amish Sim, how do you keep track of how close one (1) store is to another? When I first started De Noc I screwed this one (1) up, and located some same things too close (but on different plats.....sheets of paper) to each other. To solve this I have a simple map that has all the plat numbers, no other detail. For all businesses with multiple locations I simply highlight a single plat.....that tells me how many miles away each store is from another.
    _____

    You have some restaurants and hotels that I don't have in De Noc. Drats! Now I have to get to work.

    Good info, good info. Keep it coming.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  3. #3
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    In the mood for a little recreation. What's there to do, you might ask?

    Before you read, you should take note that the Oak River runs north and south through the village, and nearly bisects east and west.

    The north branch of the Oak Creek runs northwestward from the downtown areas and into the western sections of my village. These river valleys are the focus of many rereational opportunities in my village.

    Located just north of downtown is the state-of-the-art park district facilities North Oak Creek Community Recreation Center and locally renown Swordfish Ponds Aquatic Center. The recreation center features two large gymnasiums, with running tracks above, a giant fitness center, event rooms, classrooms, a spa, and a public theater that seats 2,000. The aquatic center features a multitude of waterslides, waterfalls, and other features, located in two giant connected pools, in addition to a zero-depth entrance, a quality snack bar, and large patio areas, with lush landscaping.

    North Oak Creek has a large number of neighborhood and community parks, some small, some large. The number of parks is near 40 or 50. Some of the more significant parks include:

    Riverside Community Park located downtown and holding a number of events throughout the year including “North Valley Days” held in the middle of July, and the village fireworks.

    North Oak Creek State Park is a large state-run ground located in the far western section of the village. It is located near the Oak Valley Freeway and commercial establishments are hungry for the land, but it will never be given up. The north branch of the Oak Creek runs through this beautiful park, lush with dense forest, splotches of prairie, and a decent amount of wildlife. A fence has been built along the Freeway, but the other borders along nearby roads are kept open as not to hinder animal migratory routes along the Oak Creek. This has created some significant roadkill problems on Farmer Rd. and State Park Rd. However, this park is a haven for wildlife enthusiasts, hikers, bikers, and picnickers. There is even cross-country skiing here in the winter.

    Other significant parks are Edge River Park, Graystone Bluffs Park, and Stonehedge Park, gigantic parks all located along the banks of the Oak River, in the northern sections of the village. There are boat launch sites at Edge River and Stonehedge. Fishing sites are also here.

    A bike trail runs the entire length of the Oak River going through all of the above parks. It is a very convenient way for one who wants to travel from downtown to the shopping and dining attractions to the north. 4 upscale eateries have patios that abut the Oak River. There is also a riverwalk downtown.

    There is also a nice park called Prairie Creek Park located in a neighborhood along the north branch of the Oak Creek.

    Boating is widely popular and you will often find many boats crusing the wide Oak River. There are 3 boat launch sites in the village, as well as an inlet downtown which serves as a harbor for many boats.

    Bluff Lakes Country Club is probably the most beautiful and most upscale golf course in all of Northern Illinois (excluding Chicagoland). It is an 18-hole course located in a massive $400,000+ home subdivision on the scenic bluffs of the Oak River. The Club is private membership, but is open to anyone willing to pay the high fees. Neighborhood residents get automatic membership though.

    Northwood Golf Course is an 18-hole public golf course run by the park district, located in the southern part of the village, just west of downtown.

    Cedar Ridge Golf Center (9-Hole and Driving Range) is located centrally in the village and is also public, but not run by the park district. It is used highly by beginners.

    All the golf courses feature nice banquet centers convenient for business meetings, social clubs, and banquet events like wedding receptions. Bluff Lakes is by far the largest and the nicest though.

    The Hamilton Homestead is a historic focal point for the village. It features a refurbished home with historical artifacts, a barn, and a workshop. There is also a petting zoo here occasionally. It is located immediately west of downtown along the railroad, and provides a historical tour of what life was like in North Oak Creek around its founding 150 years ago. It is run by a private organization, financed by donations.

    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    Hey, your city has a motto.....I gotta make one (1) for De Noc.

    Comments and questions about your restaurants:

    The number and content seem high and upscale, considering the population. Good justification if some interchange sprawl with the interestates. Good justification if North Oak Creek demographics indicate high personal incomes. (Sounds like North Oak Creek is the place that all the "movers and shakers" of Oak Creek go home to at night.)

    Is there someplace to research data such as number of restaurants per/capita? So we could compare North Oak Creek with De Noc with Davenport with Chicago with Minneapolis with etc. etc. etc. As part of my planning and justification for metro De Noc I ran across the following information (but I don't recall the source):

    National average for large metros: 5938 restaurants within 30 miles of central business district......Minneapolis has 3822 restaurants within 30 miles of central business district.
    _____

    When you locate a restaurant such as Mickey MacDonalds in your Amish Sim, how do you keep track of how close one (1) store is to another? When I first started De Noc I screwed this one (1) up, and located some same things too close (but on different plats.....sheets of paper) to each other. To solve this I have a simple map that has all the plat numbers, no other detail. For all businesses with multiple locations I simply highlight a single plat.....that tells me how many miles away each store is from another.
    _____

    You have some restaurants and hotels that I don't have in De Noc. Drats! Now I have to get to work.

    Good info, good info. Keep it coming.

    Bear
    Oh yes, I have lots of restaurants!! My village has a rapidly growing office park sector and a significant amount of other population generators (convention center, arena, community college), and we are also the premier shopping destination in north central Illinois. And yes, I do have significant interstate development. I usually have clusters or rows of about 4-5 restaurants in an area, not always directly off the Interstate though. Oh yeah, and the people are generally upper-middle class wealthy. We'll get in to all that fun stuff later.

    The people around here are indeed movers and shakers. Not only do they work in Oak Creek, but they work in Rockford, Naperville, and Elgin as well. But an increasingly significant number of residents are both living and working in North Oak Creek. We've had a giant industrial and office boom in the past 15 years.

    I don't know how to research the number of restaurants for a certain area, but I think it would be hard to do since some cities have more jobs and entertainment venues than others.

    As far as not putting the McDonalds so close to each other, my city is just the right size as I can spread the entire thing out on my bedroom floor, and spot everything in my city. It just so happens that my 4 McDonalds are all spaced out pretty evenly among the 4 cardinal directions.

    However, I have had an increasingly difficult time placing strip mall stores, and thus more than half my strip malls are empty...not really, I just haven't put the names of the tenants in yet. This is because I do not want to have 43 cleaners on one side of town, and 27 Subways on the other side of town. These businesses are a lot harder to see, and there are a lot of different brand names that do the same service that you want to spread around, and not have them all in the same area.

    Haha...I better post my big-box store list, because I have a ton, and I bet there's some stores on there that DeNoc could use, just like the restaurants.

    Here are my big and medium-box retailers. Most of them are in power centers, neighborhood grocery centers, and a few are in my mall and lifestyle center.

    Walgreen’s (3)
    Ace Hardware (2)
    La-Z Boy Furniture
    Blockbuster Video (2)
    Babies ‘R’ Us
    Toys ‘R’ Us
    K-Mart
    Jewel-Osco (3)
    Dominick’s (2)
    Marshall’s
    Circuit City
    Petsmart
    Sports Authority
    Lowe’s
    Woodman’s Market
    Walter E. Smithe Custom Furniture
    Wal-Mart Supercenter
    Sam’s Club
    Cost Co
    Dress Barn
    Michael’s
    Kohl’s
    Famous Footwear
    Layne Bryant
    Maurice’s
    Gateway outlet
    Pier 1 Imports
    Factory Card Outlet
    Men’s Wearhouse
    Fed Ex Kinko’s
    Bedding Experts
    MC Sports
    Dollar Tree
    Play it Again Sports
    Barnes & Noble (2)
    Ethan Allen
    Cost Plus World Market
    DSW Shoe Warehouse
    Aldi
    Staples
    F.I.M.
    Linens N Things
    TJ Maxx
    Tweeter
    Sherwin Williams
    Wicke’s Furniture
    Ulta
    The Baby’s Room
    Comp USA
    Gander Mountain
    Trader Joe’s
    Border’s
    Bed Bath & Beyond
    Dick’s Sporting Goods
    Old Navy
    Avenue
    The Container Store
    Nordstrom Rack
    Meijer
    Menards
    Nordstrom’s
    Carson Pirie Scott
    JC Penney
    Marshall Field’s
    Sears
    Payless Shoe Source
    Home Goods
    Pet Co
    Verlo Mattress
    Hobby Lobby
    Fashion Bug
    Burlington Coat Factory
    Best Buy
    Home Depot
    Super Target
    Hollywood Video
    True Value
    Cub Foods
    Office Depot
    American Mattress
    Taylor Stevens Salon & Day Spa
    John M. Smith’s Homemaker’s
    Big Lots
    Office Max
    Party City
    Harlem Furniture
    Sears Hardware
    Jo-Ann Fabrics

    Also, I am in need of a (1) 20,000 sq ft tenant, (3) 10,000-15,000 sq ft tenants, and (1) 8,000 sq ft tenant. Any help from the Throbbing Brain would be appreciated!!
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 19 Sep 2005 at 4:42 PM.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  4. #4
    Cyburbian jsk1983's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by illinoisplanner
    Also, I am in need of a (1) 20,000 sq ft tenant, (3) 10,000-15,000 sq ft tenants, and (1) 8,000 sq ft tenant. Any help from the Throbbing Brain would be appreciated!!
    It seems to me your a little short on drug stores. The town I'm from, just as an example has all within a few blocks a Rite Aid, a CVS, a supermarket with pharmacy inside, and plans are underway for Walgreens at the same intersection as the CVS and supermarket. The four Buffalo area chains are Walgreens, CVS, Eckerd, and Rite Aid. I'm not sure what they are in IL.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jsk1983
    It seems to me your a little short on drug stores. The town I'm from, just as an example has all within a few blocks a Rite Aid, a CVS, a supermarket with pharmacy inside, and plans are underway for Walgreens at the same intersection as the CVS and supermarket. The four Buffalo area chains are Walgreens, CVS, Eckerd, and Rite Aid. I'm not sure what they are in IL.
    While Walgreens and Osco dominate (note I have 3 of each), there are a few CVS around. I think a CVS would be good. I would have to accomodate for that though, since they are usually in stand-alone corner buildings. Thanks for that though, I'll be sure to add one!!

    I'm still in need of power center stores in the 10,000-20,000 sq ft range, though.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  6. #6
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I hear that Stan would like to open an Irish pub in the CBD. But that is all dependant if there is an alcohol licence open.
    "A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine Common Sense.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis
    I hear that Stan would like to open an Irish pub in the CBD. But that is all dependant if there is an alcohol licence open.
    Sounds good to me...I think I have a vacancy and a need in downtown. What shall it be called??

    North Oak Creek residents value their children's education system highly, and as a result, property taxes are a little higher than normal so as to provide youngsters with quality education. The most recent addition is a second high school, Chestnut High School. North Oak County Community College is also fairly new.

    John F. Kennedy Elementary School
    Thomas Jefferson Elementary School
    Abraham Lincoln Elementary School
    Ronald Reagan Elementary School
    George Washington Elementary School
    Woodrow Wilson Elementary School
    Theodore Roosevelt Elementary School
    Harry Truman Elementary School
    St. Andrew’s Catholic School (K-8)
    Eleanor Roosevelt Middle School
    Abigail Adams Middle School
    Barbara Bush Middle School
    North Oak Creek High School
    Chestnut Grove High School
    School District 397 Administration & Transportation Building
    North Oak County Community College

    North Oak Creek has a rapidly-growing business sector, with brand new office buildings sprouting up all along the North Oak Creek Freeway, on the village's eastern end, and a significant amount of manufacturing and industrial activity occurring in the Northwestern sections.

    Motorola Satellite Facility
    Rand McNally Corporate HQ
    Coca Cola Regional Center
    Rubbermaid Corporate HQ
    CB Richard Ellis Regional Center
    ITW Distribution Center
    Dean Foods Distribution Center
    Abbott Laboratories Manufacturing Facility
    Snap-On Manufacturing Facility
    Northern Illinois Trucking
    Jewel Foods Distribution Center
    The village has a significant amount of small professional buildings and a variety of small business and service-type facilities in its industrial section.
    Approximately 7 large un-named office buildings (Throbbing Brain of Cyburbia: here’s your chance to help build North Oak Creek by giving me some good tenants…looking for corporate HQ and regional facilities)

    Centegra North Oak Creek Memorial Hospital is located dead-center in the village. It is a Trauma Center that serves nearly all life-threatening injuries. It is the place in North Central Illinois to send patients in critical condition. As a result, residents will often hear Flight-For-Life helicopters buzzing up and down the Oak River Valley or from accident sites to treat patients here. But on the plus-side, North Oak Creek residents have an enormous breadth of medical options located right in their own town, and there is also a significant number of medical professionals living in town, boosting our demographics.

    There are two major medical centers/professional buildings with a significant number of doctor offices and medical specialists. On the east side, there is Centegra Medical Building, and on the west side is Medical Pointe. There are also plans for a building on the north side of town, as health demands increase.

    Here are a few odds and ends items for North Oak Creek that I grouped together...

    Gas Stations...oh dear, you will think I am the oil devil for having 2 dozen gas stations. But keep in mind that most of the gas stations aren't gigantic, and that my village is very sprawled out and has lots of interstate interchanges and busy corners...as well as a larger population due to the business presence.
    BP (4)
    Mobil (3)
    7-11/Citgo (3)
    Marathon (3)
    Shell (3)
    Phillips 66
    Clark
    Thornton's
    Speedway
    Meijer gas
    Wal-Mart gas
    Dominick's gas

    N.O.C. has a decent number of banks (a dozen). Most are national, as well as a few popular local chains. I probably could use a few more, I'm not sure though.
    North Oak Creek Bank (3)
    Home State Bank (2)
    Harris Bank (2)
    Bank of America
    Bank One
    National City Bank
    LaSalle Bank
    Fifth/Third Bank

    North Oak Creek has two major cineplexes.
    One is called the Showtime Cineplex (10-screen), on the west side of town.
    On the northern edge of town, in the lifestyle center, is an AMC 16-screen movie theater.
    Efforts are currently underway to restore an old 2-screen movie theater downtown.

    Finally, are the North Oak Creek car dealerships. Unlike many cities, which have a major strip of ugly car dealerships along a 4-lane highway, N.O.C.'s are spread out, and there is usually clusters of 1-3 in an area.
    Rockway Honda
    Don Harris Chevrolet
    Roger Buck Ford
    Mapleview Jeep & Pontiac
    Jenkins Ford
    Masterson Toyota
    North Oak Valley Dodge/Chrysler
    Richardson Chevrolet
    Oak Valley Import Auto Showcase
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    There is a technique that is used by hobby-famous model railroaders that may be of use here, with the cities of De Noc and North Oak Creek. Some of the more famous model railroad empires (usually written about numerous times in the national magazines) have "connections" between their pikes.

    For instance.....a model railroader in Albany (New York Short Line RR) and a model railroader in Dayton (Ohio Southern RR) will agree to "interchange" their rolling stock. Even though there is no real physical connection between these two (2) "fake" railroads, they each place decorated rolling stock from the other guy's pike on their pike. It enhances the believability of both model railroads.

    I suggest, Illinoisplanner (and anybody else who is playing along) that we can do the same. For instance, I could pass to you some names of national corporations (as in De Noc headquartered) that could.....in your North Oak Creek world.....be added in. I could do the same, placing something unique from N-O-C into De Noc (or suburbs).
    _____

    You have submitted a lot of detail and names for your community. I am impressed. Your community appears to be very well off and thriving.

    More questions:

    As you grow your community, perhaps linking another community with North Oak Creek, will there be areas that are less-than-robust? Trailer parks? Suburban ghettos? And, how do you feel about regional government? It hasn't worked well in Metropolitan De Noc. My city is very much like Minneapolis / St. Paul.....major community surrounded by dozens and dozens of suburbs of all sizes and types and demographics.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    There is a technique that is used by hobby-famous model railroaders that may be of use here, with the cities of De Noc and North Oak Creek. Some of the more famous model railroad empires (usually written about numerous times in the national magazines) have "connections" between their pikes.

    For instance.....a model railroader in Albany (New York Short Line RR) and a model railroader in Dayton (Ohio Southern RR) will agree to "interchange" their rolling stock. Even though there is no real physical connection between these two (2) "fake" railroads, they each place decorated rolling stock from the other guy's pike on their pike. It enhances the believability of both model railroads.

    I suggest, Illinoisplanner (and anybody else who is playing along) that we can do the same. For instance, I could pass to you some names of national corporations (as in De Noc headquartered) that could.....in your North Oak Creek world.....be added in. I could do the same, placing something unique from N-O-C into De Noc (or suburbs).
    _____

    You have submitted a lot of detail and names for your community. I am impressed. Your community appears to be very well off and thriving.

    More questions:

    As you grow your community, perhaps linking another community with North Oak Creek, will there be areas that are less-than-robust? Trailer parks? Suburban ghettos? And, how do you feel about regional government? It hasn't worked well in Metropolitan De Noc. My city is very much like Minneapolis / St. Paul.....major community surrounded by dozens and dozens of suburbs of all sizes and types and demographics.

    Bear
    Yeah sure, by all means...I want the exchange of ideas and places!!! Part of the reason I listed a lot of things is for others to get some ideas. I'm also seeking some as well.

    My community is pretty thriving, yes. But, my city will have problems I forsee as much of the housing stock is the same age. Suburban ghettos and a few splotchy condominium ghettos are likely. But luckily I don't forsee a trailer park problem. Most are pretty far away.

    Regional government in Oak County is pretty good, but intergovernmental relations with the Rockford area could be improved. In addition, North Oak Creek is kind of a hog if you will in that it fosters the greatest amount of retail and restaurants in the area, considering its size. But Oak Creek has a fair amount as well. And DeKalb and Sycamore (which aren't as retail-heavy here as they are in real life) could use some improvement.

    But North Oak Creek bridges the gap between Oak Creek and Rockford, so it's kind of in a good place.

    Here are a some of the large-scale entertainment draws for North Oak Creek. Most of them draw from throughout North Central Illinois.

    Motorola Arena is a 12,000-seat indoor venue that plays host to a number of concerts, motor shows, rodeos, carnivals, ice shows, family events, and sporting events. It is the premier spot for events in North Central Illinois, attracting people from the greater Oak Creek and Rockford areas, as well as the far western suburbs of Chicago. It also draws a significant number of people from southern Wisconsin.

    North Valley Convention Center is a multi-level exhibition center serving the northern parts of the greater Oak Creek area as well as the Rockford area. A number of business and public exhibitions and conventions are held here, as are a large number of meetings. The South Valley Convention Center, in Oak Creek, is a smaller-scale complement to this center.

    Oak River Aquarium is a gorgeous, medium-sized aquarium located on the beautiful Oak River. The aquarium features a significant amount of native water species from the Midwest, particularly those found in the freshwater Great Lakes, river basins, and other smaller lakes. There are also public shows with dolphins, manatees, and other ocean animals from time to time.

    Fun Castle Amusement Park is North Central Illinois’ hottest theme park. It features a massive indoor “castle” at the center of the park, in which there are a host of arcade-type games, bowling, indoor golf, carnival games, food, and other such activities. There is a train running the perimeter of the park, which allows visitors to see everything in the park and drop them off conveniently where they want to go. There are a number of kiddie-rides, a merry-go-round, other carnival games, horse-carriages, vendors, and larger rides including three roller coasters and a water ride.

    Creekside Casino is a casino located along the banks of the north branch of the Oak Creek, near the Holiday Inn, N.O.C.’s largest hotel. This casino features immaculate Victorian décor, and a number of fun casino games including roulette, black jack, poker, craps, and plenty of slots. There is also an off-track betting center for the Oak Valley Downs, located in Oak Creek.

    Gameworks is a popular chain gaming center located near the center of town. Popular among youths and adults alike, it features a significant amount of arcade-style games.

    Grand Slam USA is an indoor batting cage center popular among baseball and softball enthusiasts. There is also an indoor putting green and basketball/hockey courts.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 20 Sep 2005 at 8:48 AM.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  10. #10
    Cyburbian ICT/316's avatar
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    Just an Idea okay? You have to have law and order in your fair city. May be you can use this as an guide for your North Oak Creek Police Department.

    According to a 2002 FBI Uniformed Crime Report (The World Almanac and Book of Facts, 2005, pg. 162), The Midwest averaged 2.8 full time officers per 1,000 persons. So with a population of 47,000 people, you should have around 131 officers. Of course this seem very high so will compare other “real” law enforcement agencies in the area, serving similar populations.

    1. Crystal Lake, Ill. Pop. 40,000+. 62 full time officers (http://www.crystallake.org/)

    2. Hoffman Estates, Ill. Pop. 50,000+. 98 full time officers (http://www.hoffmanestates.org/police/police_facts.shtml)

    3. Glenview, Ill. Pop. 44,000. 78 full time officers (http://www.glenview.il.us/revize/gle...ice/police.htm)

    4. Tinley Park, Ill. Pop. 53,000. 78 full time officers (http://www.tinleypark.org/votp.asp?c...ce/content.htm)

    You can clearly see a difference in the number of officers serving a given population, even though they are suburban Chicago agencies.

    Take into account that this is all rank and file officers. Hey we have 131 officers on the street! No you don’t. Most departments are top heavy if you know what I mean. There’s Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, Captains, Lieutenants, Detectives ect. Ect, that take away from the real numbers. When it comes down to it, perhaps 60%-70% are actually on the street. Then there’s, time off, vacation, sick left, call offs, budget cuts, lay offs, injuries and retirements. Add to it that there usually is 4 shifts and hiring and retaining good officers with the amount of pay in other work sectors, you’re divided even lower.

    So if North Oak Creek had the ideal 131 officers and we’ll say 65% are on the streets. That’s 85 patrol officers. Now divided that by 4 shifts. That’s 21 patrol officers on any given day. Take into account sick leave, vacation, injury , DAYS OFF and on most nights your running about 16 officers for 47,000 people.
    THAT IS ONE OFFICER PER 3,000 RESIDENTS OR .33 PER 1,000. Pretty sad.
    Also note, that this does not include other agencies that can aid your department in law enforcement duties. Such agencies may be neighboring city agencies, county Sheriff’s department, District Court Officers, University Police Departments, Airport Police, Rail Road Special Police agents, State Forest Preserve Officers, State Highway Patrols, Many Federal agencies, FBI, DEA, and ATF. The list goes on and on.

    Here is an hypothetical “Organization Command Structure” for the North Oak Creek Police Department.
    (note: with the maxim and ideal numbers of officers)

    Chief of Police (1)
    Assistant Police Chief (1)

    Captain Of Operations (1)

    Patrol A Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol B Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol C Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol D Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Captain of Investigations (1)
    Lieutenant of
    Crimes Against
    Persons (1)
    Investigators (5)

    Lieutenant of
    Juvenile Crimes (1)
    Investigators (3)

    Lieutenant of
    Crimes Against
    Property (1)
    Investigators (6)

    Narcotics Investigations
    Sergeant (1)
    Investigators (3)

    Captain
    of Support Services (1)
    Lieutenant of
    Support Services (1)
    School Resource
    Officers (7) (SRO)


    Details of SRO’s in North Oak Creek Schools

    SRO (1) (Split time between schools)
    John F. Kennedy Elementary School
    Thomas Jefferson Elementary School
    Abraham Lincoln Elementary School
    Ronald Reagan Elementary School

    SRO (1) (Split time between schools)
    George Washington Elementary School
    Woodrow Wilson Elementary School
    Theodore Roosevelt Elementary School
    Harry Truman Elementary School


    SRO (1) Eleanor Roosevelt Middle School
    SRO (1) Abigail Adams Middle School
    SRO (1) Barbara Bush Middle School

    SRO (1) North Oak Creek High School
    SRO (1) Chestnut Grove High School

    Crime Lab Officer (1)

    Evidence and Property Officer (1)

    Traffic Officers Shifts A,B,C,D (4)

    Public Affairs/ Media Officer (1)

    Special Operations and Tactics officers (SWAT) (7)

    Total Full Time Officers: 131

    Now generally speaking, most cities are divided into “Beats” or Patrol area’s of 5,000 people per “Beat”. So North Oak Creek would have about 9 “Beats”. Some times due to a shortages as mentioned above, not all “Beats” can be covered, so they are patrolled in an “Overlapping” fashion. Patrol Beats are also determined by “Calls to Service”. An area that has high crime can demand more police attention or “Saturation Patrol”. Also, due to the fact that population densities may vary greatly in a city, some “Beats” will cover several square miles, while others may be only a square mile or two.
    Also, your Police Department would probably have a “Substation” in a troubled part of town. There would be minimum staffing there due to the size of your department. The hours may be limited to certain times.
    Well, I hope this adds some detail you never really thought about in your city!!

    Bill

    _____________

    “I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly..“


    - Ron Burgundy
    Last edited by ICT/316; 21 Sep 2005 at 6:18 AM.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    And a warm "thank you" to ICT/316 for his great information on the population of a community police force.

    My fake city, De Noc, has a project list with over one hundred (100) different items. One (1) is to develop sub-stations. My central city is over two hundred (200) square miles with a population of 1,174,000 (2000 Census). I only have the main police station in downtown De Noc.

    Goodie.....add more info to my project list details.

    Bear Hi-Jacking North Oak Creek Thread For A Few Nightstick Minutes
    (We don't.....we don't.....we don't mace around.)

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  12. #12
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ICT/316
    Just an Idea okay? You have to have law and order in your fair city. May be you can use this as an guide for your North Oak Creek Police Department.

    According to a 2002 FBI Uniformed Crime Report (The World Almanac and Book of Facts, 2005, pg. 162), The Midwest averaged 2.8 full time officers per 1,000 persons. So with a population of 47,000 people, you should have around 131 officers. Of course this seem very high so will compare other “real” law enforcement agencies in the area, serving similar populations.

    1. Crystal Lake, Ill. Pop. 40,000+. 62 full time officers (http://www.crystallake.org/)

    2. Hoffman Estates, Ill. Pop. 50,000+. 98 full time officers (http://www.hoffmanestates.org/police/police_facts.shtml)

    3. Glenview, Ill. Pop. 44,000. 78 full time officers (http://www.glenview.il.us/revize/gle...ice/police.htm)

    4. Tinley Park, Ill. Pop. 53,000. 78 full time officers (http://www.tinleypark.org/votp.asp?c...ce/content.htm)

    You can clearly see a difference in the number of officers serving a given population, even though they are suburban Chicago agencies.

    Take into account that this is all rank and file officers. Hey we have 131 officers on the street! No you don’t. Most departments are top heavy if you know what I mean. There’s Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, Captains, Lieutenants, Detectives ect. Ect, that take away from the real numbers. When it comes down to it, perhaps 60%-70% are actually on the street. Then there’s, time off, vacation, sick left, call offs, budget cuts, lay offs, injuries and retirements. Add to it that there usually is 4 shifts and hiring and retaining good officers with the amount of pay in other work sectors, you’re divided even lower.

    So if North Oak Creek had the ideal 131 officers and we’ll say 65% are on the streets. That’s 85 patrol officers. Now divided that by 4 shifts. That’s 21 patrol officers on any given day. Take into account sick leave, vacation, injury , DAYS OFF and on most nights your running about 16 officers for 47,000 people.
    THAT IS ONE OFFICER PER 3,000 RESIDENTS OR .33 PER 1,000. Pretty sad.
    Also note, that this does not include other agencies that can aid your department in law enforcement duties. Such agencies may be neighboring city agencies, county Sheriff’s department, District Court Officers, University Police Departments, Airport Police, Rail Road Special Police agents, State Forest Preserve Officers, State Highway Patrols, Many Federal agencies, FBI, DEA, and ATF. The list goes on and on.

    Here is an hypothetical “Organization Command Structure” for the North Oak Creek Police Department.
    (note: with the maxim and ideal numbers of officers)

    Chief of Police (1)
    Assistant Police Chief (1)

    Captain Of Operations (1)

    Patrol A Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol B Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol C Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Patrol D Shift
    Shift Lieutenant (1)
    Shift Sergeants (3)
    Corporals (4)
    Patrol Officers (11)

    Captain of Investigations (1)
    Lieutenant of
    Crimes Against
    Persons (1)
    Investigators (5)

    Lieutenant of
    Juvenile Crimes (1)
    Investigators (3)

    Lieutenant of
    Crimes Against
    Property (1)
    Investigators (6)

    Narcotics Investigations
    Sergeant (1)
    Investigators (3)

    Captain
    of Support Services (1)
    Lieutenant of
    Support Services (1)
    School Resource
    Officers (7) (SRO)


    Details of SRO’s in North Oak Creek Schools

    SRO (1) (Split time between schools)
    John F. Kennedy Elementary School
    Thomas Jefferson Elementary School
    Abraham Lincoln Elementary School
    Ronald Reagan Elementary School

    SRO (1) (Split time between schools)
    George Washington Elementary School
    Woodrow Wilson Elementary School
    Theodore Roosevelt Elementary School
    Harry Truman Elementary School


    SRO (1) Eleanor Roosevelt Middle School
    SRO (1) Abigail Adams Middle School
    SRO (1) Barbara Bush Middle School

    SRO (1) North Oak Creek High School
    SRO (1) Chestnut Grove High School

    Crime Lab Officer (1)

    Evidence and Property Officer (1)

    Traffic Officers Shifts A,B,C,D (4)

    Public Affairs/ Media Officer (1)

    Special Operations and Tactics officers (SWAT) (7)

    Total Full Time Officers: 131

    Now generally speaking, most cities are divided into “Beats” or Patrol area’s of 5,000 people per “Beat”. So North Oak Creek would have about 9 “Beats”. Some times due to a shortages as mentioned above, not all “Beats” can be covered, so they are patrolled in an “Overlapping” fashion. Patrol Beats are also determined by “Calls to Service”. An area that has high crime can demand more police attention or “Saturation Patrol”. Also, due to the fact that population densities may vary greatly in a city, some “Beats” will cover several square miles, while others may be only a square mile or two.
    Also, your Police Department would probably have a “Substation” in a troubled part of town. There would be minimum staffing there due to the size of your department. The hours may be limited to certain times.
    Well, I hope this adds some detail you never really thought about in your city!!

    Bill

    _____________

    “I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly..“


    - Ron Burgundy
    Thanks very much for the info!!!! My brother tried to help me do this before (he wanted to go into law enforcement a while back), but this is very helpful...especially since you ARE a cop and know a lot about cities as well.

    That information is probably very accurate to my town.

    I think my town would be most like Hoffman Estates or Schaumburg, due to the large concentration of corporate buildings, the points of interests, and the spread out area.

    I thank you very much!!! Also worth noting is that I have a police training facility...I will get into that soon!!!
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  13. #13
    Cyburbian ICT/316's avatar
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    Kansas (Lurking)
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    490
    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    And a warm "thank you" to ICT/316 for his great information on the population of a community police force.

    My fake city, De Noc, has a project list with over one hundred (100) different items. One (1) is to develop sub-stations. My central city is over two hundred (200) square miles with a population of 1,174,000 (2000 Census). I only have the main police station in downtown De Noc.

    Goodie.....add more info to my project list details.

    Bear Hi-Jacking North Oak Creek Thread For A Few Nightstick Minutes
    (We don't.....we don't.....we don't mace around.)

    Bear
    BUN, I won’t go into all the details, but with a city the size of De Noc ( Pop. 1.8 Million) your city would be divided into Patrol Bureaus or Districts. Those would be your Sub Station. They would function as the main station for the “beats” within those districts.

    You would probable have 6-10 Patrol Bureaus. Example would be

    Patrol Bureau North, South, East, West, Central, North Central, East Central, West Central, South Central, ect. Then you would have about 10 “beats” in each Patrol Bureau.

    NYPD has Patrol Borough such as Brooklyn South or Manhattan North, ect. Then they have like 10 “Precincts” with in those.

    Also, illinoisplanner, I forgot the “Community Police” Officers. Actually they are generally a officer already assigned to Patrol. Your Public Affairs/ Media Officer and SRO’s could also serve in that capacity.

    Bill

    ______________



    [picking his teeth] “Ribs. I had ribs for lunch, that's why I'm doing this.”

    - Ron Burgundy

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    illinoisplanner.....I have noticed in the posts related to North Oak Creek and in other posts and threads, you often refer to your fake city as having "upscale" retail, office parks, restaurants, etc.

    As you draw your community, will you be adding-in some down-and-dirty ghetto-style areas? Any trailer parks?

    In the real world I can think of a lot of examples of upscale-type suburbs, etc. that also have some not-quite-so-upscale "stuff" nearby.

    Keep the North Oak Creek info coming!

    Bear In De Noc
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  15. #15
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    illinoisplanner.....I have noticed in the posts related to North Oak Creek and in other posts and threads, you often refer to your fake city as having "upscale" retail, office parks, restaurants, etc.

    As you draw your community, will you be adding-in some down-and-dirty ghetto-style areas? Any trailer parks?

    In the real world I can think of a lot of examples of upscale-type suburbs, etc. that also have some not-quite-so-upscale "stuff" nearby.

    Keep the North Oak Creek info coming!

    Bear In De Noc
    Thanks for your continued interest in NOC. It's kind of gone on hiatus since I'm at college now, but I think I'll spend more time on it come winter break.

    Well, I guess I do have my share of somewhat-ghetto housing stock (or the people that are moving in due to it being the lowest-priced areas of my city). Below is a list of some existing areas. And like you said, due to it being an upscale suburb that has seen most of its growth in the past decade or two, it does not have a signifcant amount of ghetto areas. But I imagine that will change over the years, especially with the increasing concentration of jobs in my city. And, there are plentiful ghetto areas in Rockford and likely Oak Creek. If I make the entire metro area, more would likely appear.

    Here are some ghetto areas:
    Narrow section of downtown between Main St. and the railroad tracks

    A few near-west side subdivisions (Blue Creek Valley, Southgate, Creekside Bend)

    Ridge Condos and Washington condos (mass condo complexes highly populated by low-wealth and young employees in the service industries - keep in mind i have large amounts of retail, corporate offices, and entertainment)

    Eagle Landing townhomes (located along railroad near small commerical bldgs.)

    North Star townhomes (mass townhome development)

    Riverwoods (1950s ranch homes)

    Retail areas:
    Fun Castle amusement park (barren parking lot looks very ghetto in wintertime)

    Brown Deer Shopping Center (too many unstable tenants; good location/demographics keeping it alive)


    COMING GHETTOS:
    Regarding trailer parks, we won't annex them. However, there is one to our northwest, and I must admit our border is getting awfully close, but I plan on keeping that area of my city industrial, although our Wal-Mart is kinda close to them, which will likely draw some of the trailer park people.

    Additionally, I will probalby be building more and more homes of all kinds to keep up with the amount of people moving to my city wanting to live in the same town as where they work and shop. Time will tell how things turn out.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  16. #16
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    ^-- That town sounds like Schaumburg. Is there anything in town that's not a national chain?

  17. #17
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jordanb
    ^-- That town sounds like Schaumburg. Is there anything in town that's not a national chain?
    Unfortunately, in many aspects...yes.

    But, fortunately, I have something Schaumburg does not have...an actual downtown with housing stock dating to the post-civil war/reconstruction era. I also have a railroad with three Metra stops throughout town. Another asset to me is the beautful Oak River and adjacent parks. So in a way, it's kind of like a Fox River town (Algonquin, Geneva, etc.) and Schaumburg merged. Additionally, most of Schaumburg's growth occurred in the 60s and 70s, whereas my community's growth occurred mainly in the 80s, 90s, and the 00s. Thus, I still have time to try and change things before everything get too old. I also still have plenty of room to grow.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  18. #18
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    I'd like to see some images of these amish sim cities... Both De Noc and North Oak Creek.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Here is a western page of my town (keep in mind this is only like 1/30 of my city).

    Click image for larger version

Name:	noc_west1.jpg
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    You will find one of my principal east-west roads Riverside Rd., with a power center, 40-small store plaza, and the largest hotel in my city, the Holiday Inn on the north side of this road. There are some other stores, a movie theater, and residential neighborhoods in the middle. To the south of Maple Rd. is a school campus with Thomas Jefferson Elementary, Eleanor Roosevelt Middle School, and North Oak Creek High School. The actual North Oak "Creek" bisects this area. There are some heavily forested areas in this area, due to the presence of the North Oak Creek. Massive subdivisions lie just to the west of this area, and the Oak Valley Freeway runs just to the east.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  20. #20
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Here's downtown Oak Creek:
    Click image for larger version

Name:	noc_downtown.jpg
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    You can see some old semi-grid development patterned diaganolly, with lots of shops along Main Street which runs east-west across this area. The railroad runs east-west across this area, as well with one of three Metra commuter rail stations in the western section, near lots of condo development. The Oak River runs along the eastern portion of this page, with the North Oak Creek Freeway (which makes a semi-circle of my city) just to the east of the river.

    Here is a suburban section north of downtown:
    Click image for larger version

Name:	noc_north.jpg
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    Here you can see an industrial park on the south, the fringes of a mall on the far west. The railroad line bisects an industrial/retail heavy area from some subdivisions on the eastern side. The North Valley Convention Center is on the east, opposite the Oak River from a lovely park and marina. The Motorola Arena is just to the east of this section.

    Here is a section just NE of the picture above:
    Click image for larger version

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    In this one, you can see a row of chain sit-down restaurants with outdoor patio seating along the river, with some upscale shops on the other side of the river. You can see some upscale condos in the center, with the fringes of a massive golf course community to the north. A 4-lane divided highway separates this area from a power center on the east side.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  21. #21
    Cyburbian chukky's avatar
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    ^^ Now I realise just how mcuh work goes into to these Amish cities. Eeeschk! Much awe.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian Emeritus Bear Up North's avatar
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    Myabe over the Thanksgiving Holiday I will get a chance to snap some shots of De Noc......or some suburbs. Can't let a young upstart puppy upstage me.

    Nice work, IP.

    Some differences between my cities and yours.....

    Your detail is much greater than mine. I will draw in a building, such as a restaurant or a factory, add in the parking lots.....but compared to your detail....wow. You have drawn-in parking lot lines, turn lanes, etc.

    You are using some color in your drawings. My plats have no color, just lines. Because my metro area has an abundance of inland lakes you would think color would have helped me. No big deal.....if you see the big empty space with a squiggly line and the legend indicates "Dancing Bear Lake".....bet your bottom dollar it IS Dancing Bear Lake.

    I did have a bit of a head start, if you will.....metro De Noc was started in 1965. I was a junior in high school.

    My plat total is around four-hundred (400).

    Nice work.

    Bear
    Occupy Cyburbia!

  23. #23
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Bear Up North
    Myabe over the Thanksgiving Holiday I will get a chance to snap some shots of De Noc......or some suburbs. Can't let a young upstart puppy upstage me.

    Nice work, IP.

    Some differences between my cities and yours.....

    Your detail is much greater than mine. I will draw in a building, such as a restaurant or a factory, add in the parking lots.....but compared to your detail....wow. You have drawn-in parking lot lines, turn lanes, etc.

    You are using some color in your drawings. My plats have no color, just lines. Because my metro area has an abundance of inland lakes you would think color would have helped me. No big deal.....if you see the big empty space with a squiggly line and the legend indicates "Dancing Bear Lake".....bet your bottom dollar it IS Dancing Bear Lake.

    I did have a bit of a head start, if you will.....metro De Noc was started in 1965. I was a junior in high school.

    My plat total is around four-hundred (400).

    Nice work.

    Bear
    LOL...thanks. You definitely need to scan in some sample plats of your 400-plat city... wow! That's incredible! At my rate, I'll barely hit 100 pages by the time I'm your age.

    I think we should put our cities in the Guiness Book of Records or something. DeNoc, especially.

    Unfortunately, my city is not entirely to scale. Residential is shown very small as compared to commercial/industrial/roadways. I have always had a keen interest in transportation, which may account for the parking spaces and traffic lanes. It's also fun to follow your pencil along the roadways and see what route one would take to get to a certain area, and how many parking spots or lanes might be needed for certain spots.

    Additionally, it's almost better in a way if you don't include color. I do it for aesthetic reasons. But it seems you're a little bit more realistic with De Noc. I've often noticed that if I want to get rid of a golf course or forest or something, it's quite hard to get rid of the color then. So, not having color is a bonus in that respect.

    But, I think Cyburbia is dying to see some scanned images of the mother of them all...De Noc. Anxiously awaiting...
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

  24. #24
    Cyburbian abrowne's avatar
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    All those liney things are parking, then? They seem abundant.

    I find it interesting that both of you have designed "realist" cities rather than "idealist" cities.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian illinoisplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by abrowne
    All those liney things are parking, then? They seem abundant.

    I find it interesting that both of you have designed "realist" cities rather than "idealist" cities.
    LOL. Yeah. I guess you could call it "realist", but it was based off familiarity more than anything, which explains why many of the companies, retailers, restaurants, etc. are based off ones that are common in my geographical area, and why suburban 1980s-2000s development dominates.
    "Life's a journey, not a destination"
    -Steven Tyler

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