Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Can't regulate sign content however debatable.

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Plus
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    De Noc
    Posts
    17,619

    Can't regulate sign content however debatable.

    http://kfvs12.images.worldnow.com/im...598196_BG1.jpg

    Attached to story about legalization.
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  2. #2
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally posted by JNA View post
    http://kfvs12.images.worldnow.com/im...598196_BG1.jpg

    Attached to story about legalization.
    I'm confused.. is this a court case?

  3. #3
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,532
    Blog entries
    3
    Much as I dislike billboards, I don't think there's a problem with the message. A billboard is, at its heart, a structure leased to those who want to display a certain message on it, whether it's the traditional off-premises ad, or a non-commercial, political or advocacy message. The message may offend a few, but it's certainly not obscene or pornographic.

    In communities that allow billboards, I'd expect to see the number of displays advocating marijuana legalization, gay marriage, atheism, and the like to become more common, along with complaints from uptight residents. That might be a good thing for the visual environment; messages that offend Powers That Be in very conservative communities might move them towards banning billboards. "I don't want to see no giant sign high above Nathan Bedford Forrest Boulevard showing some Adam and Steve holding hands or telling me there's no Jesus."
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  4. #4
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hang on Sloopy...land
    Posts
    9,646
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    "I don't want to see no giant sign high above Nathan Bedford Forrest Boulevard showing some Adam and Steve holding hands or telling me there's no Jesus."
    Scalia? No, no, it was Thomas right?
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Coragus's avatar
    Registered
    May 2002
    Location
    The Bluegrass Region . . . for now
    Posts
    1,024
    1. No, you can't regulate sign content. It's a freedom of speech issue.

    2. I have no problem with the message on that billboard at all. Legalize it, tax it like liquer, and profit.

    3. 800th Cyburbia post!!!!!!
    Last edited by Coragus; 23 May 2012 at 4:55 PM. Reason: Added text about 800th post
    Maintaining enthusiasm in the face of crushing apathy.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Comer, GA
    Posts
    570
    I see no problem with the content of the example.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,143
    Quote Originally posted by Coragus View post
    1. No, you can't regulate sign content. It's a freedom of speech issue.

    2. I have no problem with the message on that billboard at all. Legalize it, tax it like liquer, and profit.

    3. 800th Cyburbia post!!!!!!
    1. bingo. your best bet is to not allow them in the first place.

    2. ahh that would be nice.

    3. congrats!
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  8. #8
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,532
    Blog entries
    3
    Quote Originally posted by Coragus View post
    1. No, you can't regulate sign content. It's a freedom of speech issue.
    Congrats on joining the 0.8 clube!

    BTW, although a few state courts disagree, in the United States you can regulate content, at least with regards to on-premises versus off-premises signs. Time, place and manner can be regulated, and billboard/off-premise sign prohibitions fall under regulation of place.

    I've read that local government subdivisions in Canada can't ban billboards, because such bans are considered a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I'd like to hear from one of our Canadian Cyburbians if that's not the case.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  9. #9
    Cyburbian fringe's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Comer, GA
    Posts
    570
    "...with regards to on-premises versus off-premises signs..."

    GA joined those that say the off-site message restriction is anti-speech.

    Ergo a neighboring town's new regs say each parcel can have one sign, but one only. If the sign says, "Eat at Joe's", that is the property owner's exercise of speech.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,143
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    I've read that local government subdivisions in Canada can't ban billboards, because such bans are considered a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I'd like to hear from one of our Canadian Cyburbians if that's not the case.
    Ontario has some of the worst signs imagineable. Day-glo lettering, whilry-gigs, endless roadside trailer signs, what have you. Anything goes.

    Certainly you should be able to regulate the font of the sign, content becomes more of a different animal. As a transportation planner, I hate these signs as they are very distractive and lead to rear-end collisions; which in turn, lead to non-reoccuring congestion issues that screw up peoples regular driving patterns. It is viewed as something that should be 'fixed' but it is out of the transportation planner realm.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  11. #11
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    As a transportation planner, I hate these signs as they are very distractive and lead to rear-end collisions; which in turn, lead to non-reoccuring congestion issues that screw up peoples regular driving patterns. It is viewed as something that should be 'fixed' but it is out of the transportation planner realm.
    I've been known to do a little rubber-necking for billboards every now and then, particularly in bigger cities. Now the City of Boston apparently allows buildings with animated digital graphics and messaging so it's even harder for me to keep my eyes on the road.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Where the weak are killed and eaten.
    Posts
    6,143
    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    I've been known to do a little rubber-necking for billboards every now and then, particularly in bigger cities. Now the City of Boston apparently allows buildings with animated digital graphics and messaging so it's even harder for me to keep my eyes on the road.
    Over in our theatre district/stadium area there are running LED ticker tape type signs, I guess it is to make it more like Broadway/Times square.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  13. #13
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,532
    Blog entries
    3
    Quote Originally posted by DetroitPlanner View post
    Ontario has some of the worst signs imagineable. Day-glo lettering, whilry-gigs, endless roadside trailer signs, what have you. Anything goes.
    This. They don't have much in the way of Texas-style sign clutter -- high-rise signs and billboards -- and 48'x14' billboards are uncommon, but what's closer to the ground is awful. I've never seen a community in Ontario that has sign regulations that could be considered stricter than average by US standards. Sign regs north of the border seem uniformly mediocre, not something I'd expect.

    Here's the dumpy strip in the suburb of Cleveland where I used to live. All monuments. I've never seen an equivalent, sign-wise, in Ontario.

    Certainly you should be able to regulate the font of the sign, content becomes more of a different animal.
    Not from what I understand. Trade dress unrelated to a logo can be regulated (architectural and building color standards, etc), but not the logo itself (bans on fonts or colors on a sign face, etc).
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  14. #14
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Here's the dumpy strip in the suburb of Cleveland where I used to live. All monuments. I've never seen an equivalent, sign-wise, in Ontario.
    Those monument signs are tiny..

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 8
    Last post: 12 Dec 2008, 5:17 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last post: 14 Jul 2008, 10:41 AM
  3. Signs / billboards Content neutral sign regulations
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 10
    Last post: 26 Jul 2006, 6:00 PM
  4. How would a sign code regulate this?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 7
    Last post: 09 Feb 2006, 1:02 PM