Career advice sought grad school/other ?

[chocolatechip]

If you have a job, you'll find it easy to convince yourself you worked for it, earned, and deserve it. If you don't, it's easy to get bitter because you believe you deserve better. The "entitlement" speech 99% of the time comes from those who have jobs. Speaking of which, Raf, it wasn't so long ago that you found yourself having spent years in a company that was in the process of falling apart from the housing bust and having to look for work all over. I know you worked hard to get your current gig, but opportunity and luck always play a factor. If someone's bitter, the reasons go deep, too deep to really understand or convey in an internet forum. Just because you have a job doesn't give anyone the right to lecture someone who doesn't and blame their current circumstances on their "sense of entitlement."

[nrschmid]

The several times I was unemployed I never felt I should be given preference for work because I wasn't working. Even though I collected unemployment for some +70 weeks, I knew it was being funded by taxpayers who worked for a living. In many ways unemployment assistance is a dis-incentive for people to take anything BUT a full time job. I am very grateful I received as much money as I did, but if that were cut off tomorrow it is my responsibility to support myself, and it only made me work harder to find gainful employment. I'm not buying the argument of publicly funding someone's REPEAT degree. I don't think taxpayers should fork over money for someone to "find themselves" over and over again.

[Linda_D]

Linda and Raf: What can I say? If I was old and bitter I wouldn't take crap from people who are young and bitter, either.

But I will maintain that financial aid awards to those with the right academic qualifications willing to re-matriculate in STEM programs that leverage their previous educational background is a good idea. It seems obvious that we would all prefer more people working in high skill, high salary positions in advanced fields rather than working a McJob simply because we believe that enough people haven't paid their dues or whatever. Obviously this shouldn't be at the expense of anyone receiving aid to complete a first bachelor's degree...so I have no idea what the point is of bringing up soup kitchens.

I will also continue to urge younger aspiring planners to heavily rethink their future plans, as planning is mainly a dead-end that leads to having no job and being accused of having a sense of entitlement by people who have no idea who you are or what you've done.

There's only a limited pot of financial aid money available, and giving FA grants-in-aid to students who already have Bachelor's degrees would take aid away from students working on their initial degrees. That is the reality of the world we live in.

Poor people living in inner cities and rural backwaters aren't the only ones who "make bad decisions". Sometimes middle class college students pick the wrong majors or pick the wrong majors at the wrong time. Well, manure happens. Nobody forced you to get a BA and a Masters in the fields that you did, so you need to take responsibility for your own choices.

If you'd rather wallow in bitterness and self-pity, it's nothing to me, but if that kind of attitude comes through in interviews, it will sink any possible job prospects you might have.

If you have a job, you'll find it easy to convince yourself you worked for it, earned, and deserve it. If you don't, it's easy to get bitter because you believe you deserve better. The "entitlement" speech 99% of the time comes from those who have jobs. Speaking of which, Raf, it wasn't so long ago that you found yourself having spent years in a company that was in the process of falling apart from the housing bust and having to look for work all over. I know you worked hard to get your current gig, but opportunity and luck always play a factor. If someone's bitter, the reasons go deep, too deep to really understand or convey in an internet forum. Just because you have a job doesn't give anyone the right to lecture someone who doesn't and blame their current circumstances on their "sense of entitlement."

The issue isn't about lecturing anybody about NOT having a job. It's about somebody without a job in his/her field who thinks he/she is owed further college education (through financial aid grants) because his/her career expectations from undergrad and graduate programs weren't met. That's a sense of entitlement.

I've sat on several search/hiring committees. If a hint of crummmountain's bitterness came through in an interview, he/she would be automatically rejected. You can call that "lecturing" if you like, but I'd call it advice from someone who's been around awhile.

[crummmountain]

It's about somebody without a job in his/her field who thinks he/she is owed further college education (through financial aid grants) because his/her career expectations from undergrad and graduate programs weren't met. That's a sense of entitlement.

No, that's not what this is about. You're hearing: "I can't find a job so I am entitled to a,b,c...". But all I'm actually saying is that more people having jobs is better than fewer people having jobs, and we're talking about people who mostly want to work! But you call wanting to work having a 'sense of entitlement'! Furthermore, your advice to people struggling to find work is to "get a job". Thanks!

All I'm simply suggesting is retraining segments of the workforce willing to invest the time and effort to obtain new skills/knowledge so they can be productive, taxpaying citizens, a pretty tame proposal that really has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement.

[The District]

for those interested in retraining without going back to school formally, check out coursera.org, udacity.com, and edx.org, as well as the myriad of open courseware offerings from schools like MIT. depending on your situation, i think these may offer a very effective means of retraining or augmenting existing skillsets that could be leveraged in planning and elsewhere. YMMV, but i'm finding these free resources a great starting point from which to take my existing skills even further, both during and after course is complete.

[chocolatechip]

I've sat on several search/hiring committees. If a hint of crummmountain's bitterness came through in an interview, he/she would be automatically rejected.

I don't think that was ever a question, but thanks for your sage advice.

Did you hear that crummy? Don't let others know you might occasionally feel bitter about your lot.

[mike gurnee]

Wow

[crummmountain]

My bitterness does not comes through in interviews.

But my resume does list drinking alone in the dark, chain smoking and writing misanthropic novels as prior work experience.

[chocolatechip]

My bitterness does not comes through in interviews.

But my resume does list drinking alone in the dark, chain smoking and writing misanthropic novels as prior work experience.

Mine includes Few Shits Given About Planning Outcomes.

That should rank me with most FAICPs.

[ColoGI]

Mine includes Few Shits Given About Planning Outcomes. That should rank me with most FAICPs.

This should be shown to all the prospective planners on this board - it is the likely outcome. Few of us can say we've practiced where we were able to make a difference. I have, and I've also practiced where there was no way I could. But who wants to quash young idealism?

[Cardinal]

This should be shown to all the prospective planners on this board - it is the likely outcome. Few of us can say we've practiced where we were able to make a difference. I have, and I've also practiced where there was no way I could. But who wants to quash young idealism?

You win some, you lose some. It is true in anything, or any occupation. Those who are very good or learn to choose their battles may up their odds of winning. But everyone should learn to accept that not everything is going to work out "perfect". Looking back, there are a few outcomes I fought that have even worked out pretty good.

[ColoGI]

You win some, you lose some. It is true in anything, or any occupation. Those who are very good or learn to choose their battles may up their odds of winning. But everyone should learn to accept that not everything is going to work out "perfect". Looking back, there are a few outcomes I fought that have even worked out pretty good.

Right. Agreed. I'm just saying this is a useful way to frame the fact only occasionally you get lucky and can do a good job (or get handed a project worth battling for). Realistic expectations and all that.

[Whose Yur Planner]

You win some, you lose some. It is true in anything, or any occupation. Those who are very good or learn to choose their battles may up their odds of winning. But everyone should learn to accept that not everything is going to work out "perfect". Looking back, there are a few outcomes I fought that have even worked out pretty good.

I'll echo this, combined with the idea of pyrrhic victories. Experience teaches to chose your battles and compromise. You might not get everything you want, but getting some of what you wanted is better than nothing. Further, the periodic humility lessons help. The faster a planner learns that they don't know everything and that we are here to serve all out citizens, the better.