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Thread: Leaders and Managers

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Leaders and Managers

    This morning a quote caught my eye. “Leaders and managers are only sometimes the same people… but often not.”

    It got me thinking that I have known both and thus far I think it is true. It is not always a bad thing and sometimes people are great managers but not leaders and sometimes great leaders, are not managers.

    What are your thoughts? Are the two titles independent of each other? What would you say makes up good qualities of each?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  2. #2
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    This morning a quote caught my eye. “Leaders and managers are only sometimes the same people… but often not.”

    It got me thinking that I have known both and thus far I think it is true. It is not always a bad thing and sometimes people are great managers but not leaders and sometimes great leaders, are not managers.

    What are your thoughts? Are the two titles independent of each other? What would you say makes up good qualities of each?
    And sometimes people are bad leaders and horrible managers.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    And sometimes people are bad leaders and horrible managers.
    This is very true! I have been lucky to have never worked for any, but I know people who have...
    Off-topic:

    Oh wait. There was one guy in college that imploded his business and went to jail or something unrelated. I quit two weeks before that. But he had a drinking and drug problem.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Plus
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    From Harvey Mackay's column:

    ■The manager administers; the leader innovates.
    ■The manager is a copy; the leader is an original.
    ■The manager maintains; the leader develops.
    ■The manager focuses on systems and structure; the leader focuses on people.
    ■The manager relies on control; the leader inspires trust.
    ■The manager has a short-range view; the leader has a long-range perspective.
    ■The manager asks how and when; the leader asks what and why.
    ■The manager has his eye always on the bottom line; the leader has his eye on the horizon.
    ■The manager imitates; the leader originates.
    ■The manager accepts the status quo; the leader challenges it.
    ■The manager is the classic good soldier; the leader is his own person.
    Mackay’s Moral: Good leaders develop more than good employees, they develop more good leaders.
    Good leaders bring out the best in employees
    October 25, 2012
    http://harveymackay.com/column/
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Tide's avatar
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    So true.

    I had this argument with my wife. I said it doesn't take much to manage people, in fact you can motivate someone to work hard through guilt, threats, and mental anguish. It does however, take a different person to be a leader which also requires a dose of inspiration.
    @GigCityPlanner

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    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    They are not mutually inclusive of one another.

    People think I am a leader, but I do not consider myself to be a leader nor do I want to be. I am a very much "manage the manager" type, I lead from behind the scenes. I love what I do, I love making my boss look good, and love that I don't have to do the PR, touchy feely stuff that she does.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  7. #7
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    What are your thoughts? Are the two titles independent of each other? What would you say makes up good qualities of each?
    Are you interviewing for planning jobs in Texas? That's a standard question cities there ask during a job interview or application process. Several times.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

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    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Leaders and managers are inherently political positions, especially in our line of work. I think a leader is someone who isn't afraid to stand up to political interests that may not have the best interest of the community at heart, and is someone who wants to continue to work as well as manage. A manager is someone who isn't interested in rocking the boat, who may be too timid to stand up for employees or the community, and who really just sees their job as keeping track of employees comings and goings and appropriate usage of grammar - see micro-managers.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

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    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    In my area of work (small non-profits) leaders are often also expected to be managers. With such small staffs, there is not much of a hierarchy of positions. Its essentially the ED and then everyone else. So, EDs need to be able to play both roles.
    The purpose of life is a life of purpose

  10. #10
    Cyburbian dw914er's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by JNA View post
    From Harvey Mackay's column:



    Good leaders bring out the best in employees
    October 25, 2012
    http://harveymackay.com/column/
    This is what my supervisor tries to do. I think it's a great approach.
    And that concludes staff’s presentation...

  11. #11
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    Are you interviewing for planning jobs in Texas? That's a standard question cities there ask during a job interview or application process. Several times.
    No... but now that you mention it, it is getting cold here in Michigan.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

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    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    In my area of work (small non-profits) leaders are often also expected to be managers. With such small staffs, there is not much of a hierarchy of positions. Its essentially the ED and then everyone else. So, EDs need to be able to play both roles.
    Unfortunately, they often can't or don't play both roles well. Ours did when it was a $5M organization with 65 employees, now we are $15M and 200+ employees and neither role gets done well and he's not open to hiring a COO to take the operations load off of him.

    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Leaders and managers are inherently political positions, especially in our line of work. I think a leader is someone who isn't afraid to stand up to political interests that may not have the best interest of the community at heart, and is someone who wants to continue to work as well as manage. A manager is someone who isn't interested in rocking the boat, who may be too timid to stand up for employees or the community, and who really just sees their job as keeping track of employees comings and goings and appropriate usage of grammar - see micro-managers.
    Example-our mayor, who shall remain nameless, is the personification of a leader but is a piss poor manager. When we travel to conferences out of state there's always someone who says "I just love your mayor!" All of us get a little awkward, even the municipal employees and we kind of just say "That's great "" He's pondering a run at the governor's seat but he's going to get trounced by Christie.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  13. #13
    NIMBY asshatterer Plus Richmond Jake's avatar
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    The two are not mutually exclusive. I wear both hats.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    You lead people. You manage projects. Both have to be done to be successful. One of my old bosses used to say that people are essentially unmanageable and are only going to do what they believe is in their best interest, so your job is to lead them to that conclusion regarding the projects that you are managing.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  15. #15
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    I thought it was Leaders and Legends??
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  16. #16
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Richmond Jake View post
    . I wear both hats.
    hmmm. I get that one hat goes on top of your head. Where does the other one go?
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Dilbert today:
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    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
    From Kelly's Heroes (1970)


    Are you sure you're not hurt ?
    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
    From Electric Horseman (1979)

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