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Poll results: Which is preferable in your opinion?

Voters
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  • guilt society

    9 60.00%
  • shame society

    1 6.67%
  • c'mon man, isn't there a door number 3?

    5 33.33%
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Thread: Guilt society vs shame society

  1. #1
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Guilt society vs shame society

    Given the choice, would you prefer to live in a guilt society or a shame society?

    Guilt

    Shame

    Discuss.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  2. #2
    Cyburbian
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    Have to go with guilt society. The shame society thing going on in Japan and China can get a bit ridiculous when the actions of one family member can literally bring down everyone else in the family. Have a deadbeat alcoholic father? Good luck getting a job in that town.

  3. #3
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    Easy one... I'll take the guilt society. The shame society seems profoundly unfair in how the actions of a single individual can bring down the entire family. In addition, I feel a shame society can and does result in higher levels of unhappiness and is more likely to result in extreme measures by the person causing the shame, i.e. higher rates of suicide. You have seen this play out in high suicide rates in Japan and Korea, where individuals turn to aggression against themselves when faced with failure (even simple business failure/bankruptcy) or shame. In some cases, suicide is even considered "morally responsible behavior," not in reference to assisted suicide for terminally ill, but as a legitimate response to shame as a form of taking responsibility.

    In addition, the shame society in those cultures seems to have contributed to a poor approach to addressing mental illness, which is considered to bring shame. If you take a medication to help with mild depression, it is often viewed the same as something more acute/debilitating like schizophrenia.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  4. #4
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    A guilt society is much easier to get out of because that would require people to feel guilt. A shame society seems darker and meaner... I don't like that idea.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #5
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Why do you hate America?

  6. #6
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Isn't it a shame that it's so easy to put a guilt trip on someone?
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  7. #7
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
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    I think it's shameful that you're all discussing this...Now I feel guilty for yelling at you.

    But seriously, I'll go with a guilt society. I prefer my life to be affected by my values (or lack of them) rather than having someone else's values placed on me.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    I want to live in a society full of gingerbread and roses and feel good stories.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Linda_D's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    I think it's shameful that you're all discussing this...Now I feel guilty for yelling at you.

    But seriously, I'll go with a guilt society. I prefer my life to be affected by my values (or lack of them) rather than having someone else's values placed on me.
    Well said.
    If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. -- John F. Kennedy, January 20, 1961

  10. #10
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TerraSapient View post
    I want to live in a society full of gingerbread and roses and feel good stories.
    You mean Toledo?
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  11. #11
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    I prefer my life to be affected by my values (or lack of them) rather than having someone else's values placed on me.
    Ahhh, but are they really your values - that's the question.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  12. #12
    Cyburbian ursus's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    I prefer my life to be affected by my values (or lack of them) rather than having someone else's values placed on me.
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Ahhh, but are they really your values - that's the question.
    Interesting. Is individual guilt really just the society putting the burden of shame on the individual instead of the group? Example: I know my brother drinks. His religion forbids it, right? Now, his religion wants him to change his ways, but the burden is his privately. There will be no public shaming or reconciliation and glory if/when he abandons the "offensive" behavior. It's all on him - but if the guilt works, the religion wins - it wins his renewed loyalty and probably some kind of odd gratitude from him that it guilted him into "changing".

    Maist, I believe you're onto something.
    "...I would never try to tick Hink off. He kinda intimidates me. He's quite butch, you know." - Maister

  13. #13
    Cyburbian TerraSapient's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    You mean Toledo?
    Just like Toledo, but with more snow and better skiing opportunities.
    Occupy Your Brain!

  14. #14
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    We don't have either. More so, people are not held accountable for their actions and what what is socially acceptable has changed, some for the better but mostly for the worse.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    I bet a lot of you folks aren't Catholic or ex-Catholic. A guilt society? Ew. Shame isn't much better.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian safege's avatar
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    Guilt for those making under 30k, shame for those making over 50k.


    Psychotics are consistently inconsistent. The essence of sanity is to be inconsistently inconsistent.
    -Larry Wall

  17. #17
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    How Data and Social Pressure Can Reduce Home Energy Use

    With the relationship between utilities and their customers changing in unprecedented ways, new companies are deploying vast amounts of data and social psychology techniques to try to persuade people to use less electricity in their homes.
    by dave levitan

    Visit the website of Opower and your eye will be drawn to a counter in the corner, its digits ticking ever higher. The counter represents energy that the company says its customers have saved after it provided them data on electricity usage and employed behavioral science to change their consumption patterns. As of this writing, the counter is climbing past 1.62 billion kilowatt-hours.

    Virginia-based Opower is just one of a growing number of so-called electricity consumer engagement companies around the U.S. that have sprung up in recent years with the aim of helping customers reduce their electricity use, primarily by analyzing their current consumption and finding the easy fixes. These companies are mixing in data from the rapid deployment of smart meters with behavioral science to try and answer a key question: How can we get people to care? The central idea is that by showing people how much electricity they use, when they use it, and what their neighbors and peers use, consumers can be driven to change.

    “The buzzwords around the utility industry today, it’s all about consumer engagement,” says Dean Chuang, a senior research analyst with consulting firm IDC Energy Insights near Boston.
    So we know Obama used social psychology to 'nudge' people to vote. Is the 'guilt vs shame' society an offshoot of social marketing and social psych?
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    So we know Obama used social psychology to 'nudge' people to vote. Is the 'guilt vs shame' society an offshoot of social marketing and social psych?
    I think that they've always been recognized for their manipulative power but the marketers/psychologists have gotten better at using them. Deep down, it's still "Think of the children" marketing.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

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