Urban planning community

Poll results: Should Gun Regulations Be:

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • Extremely More Restrictive (only cops and military)

    1 5.26%
  • Substantially More Restrictive (Permit hunting rifles and shot guns only)

    1 5.26%
  • Moderately More Restrictive (CCW type training & registration for everyone who buys any gun)

    6 31.58%
  • Slightly More Restrictive (Registration of all guns and CCW type training for handguns)

    8 42.11%
  • It is good how it is (Background checks on handguns and assault rifles)

    2 10.53%
  • Slightly Less Restrictive (Sign a form and a waiver to buy a gun)

    0 0%
  • Moderately Less Restrictive (Waiting list and CCW to get automatic guns)

    0 0%
  • Substantially Less Restrictive (Buy Automatic guns at Wal-mart, no background check)

    0 0%
  • Extremely Less Restrictive (it is my 2nd amendment right to own a bazooka)

    1 5.26%
+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 143

Thread: Should gun laws and regulation be increased or decreased?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Someplace between yesterday and tomorrow.
    Posts
    12,116

    Should gun laws and regulation be increased or decreased?

    ***Wait for the poll***

    In light of the recent national discussions regarding gun regulations, do you believe that there should be increased regulations on guns, restrictions on the types of guns owned, better training for those who have a particular type of gun, or less restrictions and regulations?

    Personally, I keep going back and forth on this issue. On one hand, I think that people should get a CCW or CPL BEFORE they buy a gun. On the other hand there is quite a bit of documentation showing that the vast majority of those who commit gun crimes did not obtain their guns legally, which makes me wonder if a trigger lock should be required to be included with all guns. I think that one of the biggest keys is to keep guns in the possession of those who buy and use them legally.

    I will be the first to say that I do not think that the regulations should be decreased by any means.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  2. #2
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hang on Sloopy...land
    Posts
    9,634
    As I have stated in the past, I live on both sides of this line - my family has a fiscal incentive to have guns be available, but I also do not support the current system.

    It is beyond my comprehension why anyone believes they have a right to secretly own guns. I think we need a centralized system of gun ownership. It should be public. I have the right know if my neighbor is stockpiling weapons.

    I also agree with the ban on assault type weapons. Although my family members own and operate these types of weapons without incident, it isn't them I am worried about. These types of weapons which are fun to shoot, are just too much of a risk in our society. There is no value beyond the fun of shooting them. They are not used for hunting. They are used for pleasure.

    I don't believe that requiring background checks, wait periods, and registration is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think that banning weapons that are against the public health is a violation of the 2nd Amendment either.

    I am not for banning guns outright. Our country has a very rural and pilgramesque beginning, and guns were a part of that. Our founders (in their infinite wisdom ) did feel that weapons were a right of protection at the time. I think the types of guns they supported were not exactly what we think of today though.

    We can modify the system without creating the end of the world scenario that some gun advocates would like you to believe.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Someplace between yesterday and tomorrow.
    Posts
    12,116
    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    I also agree with the ban on assault type weapons. Although my family members own and operate these types of weapons without incident, it isn't them I am worried about. These types of weapons which are fun to shoot, are just too much of a risk in our society. There is no value beyond the fun of shooting them. They are not used for hunting. They are used for pleasure.
    What is your definition on an assault type weapon? The reason that I ask is I think there is a lot of confusion over this term. As example, this gun is a semiautomatic, center cartage loading gun that mostly shoots rounds more powerful than a 553 or similar “AR” style rifle. It is also a very popular deer hunting rifle.



    I agree with several other parts of your statement in terms of 2nd amendment rights.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  4. #4
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hang on Sloopy...land
    Posts
    9,634
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    What is your definition on an assault type weapon?
    My definition of an assault type weapon is a large capacity magazine capable, self loading weapon. Most hunting rifles hold 10 rounds at most. A Ruger Varminter or other popular model is a one shot rifle.

    Anyone who argues they need more than 10 rounds a once is either A.) A horrible shot, or B.) Crazy.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  5. #5
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Someplace between yesterday and tomorrow.
    Posts
    12,116
    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    My definition of an assault type weapon is a large capacity magazine capable, self loading weapon. Most hunting rifles hold 10 rounds at most. A Ruger Varminter or other popular model is a one shot rifle.

    Anyone who argues they need more than 10 rounds a once is either A.) A horrible shot, or B.) Crazy.
    Just so I understand, is it just assault rifles, or do handguns fit that too. It seems that you can get an extended clip for just about any hand gun these days. I do agree, though. 10 or less is a more reasonable number.

    *The gun pictured above, the Browning BAR only has a 3 round clip, but you can empty that in quite a hurry.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  6. #6
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Slightly Off-Center
    Posts
    8,258
    I'm only slightly pro-gun even though I'm an owner. But...Slightly More Restrictive (Registration of all guns and CCW type training for handguns) is NOT slightly more restrictive, it's a sea change.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  7. #7
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colo Front Range
    Posts
    2,372
    After watching Jon Stewart last night, I'm hopeful that we are actually tiptoeing toward a grown-up, non-hero wannabe conversation about guns in this country. About time.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Down by Dun Ringill
    Posts
    5,857
    Blog entries
    6
    As I stated in the poltical thread, I am a gun owner and my son and I enjoy shooting as recreation. I also stated that I think a person should have to wait a few days to pruchase a gun in order for a thorough background check. I also favor closing the gun show and private sale loopholes. Assault rifle and high capacity magazines should be strictly controlled, at least, if not banned.

    I also am entertaining the idea that the purchase of ammunition and reloading compnents also should require a background check. This idea needs work. It could be onerous. However, we live in a computer age and if you purchase ammunition from the same store or stores as I do, it might not be a problem. The store could have you in their database as passing the background check and the background check could be required annually. So, for example, in the spring, when I went to my local sporting goods store to renew my shooting range membership, they could run the background check at the same time.

    Carry permits should be hard to obtain. More people carrying guns is not the answer.

    In the event of one of those horrible mass shootings, the police roll up and there are multiple people with guns. That is a pretty hairy situation for the police to have to, in an instant, ascertain who is the shooter and who is not. Is the shooter one of the dead? Are the dead and wounded who are armed one of the shooters or one of the victims? The police really wouldn't have much choice except shoot the ones who wouldn't drop their weapons immediately and round up everyone with a gun, disarm them, arrest everyone with a gun (regardless of whether they have a permit or not) and take them all to the police station to sort them all out. A well-meaning and armed citizen could also very well frighten fleeing people back into danger, or get shot by another armed citizen on scene.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In a 480 square foot ex baseball nacho stand
    Posts
    6,975
    I think I already stated my feelings (as did many) in the political thread. No need for semi-automatic, fully automatic, assault or large magazine weapons. There is no purpose for these in a civilized society - if thats what we are. Rifles, pistols, antiques, thats fine.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  10. #10
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Slightly Off-Center
    Posts
    8,258
    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    I think I already stated my feelings (as did many) in the political thread. No need for semi-automatic, fully automatic, assault or large magazine weapons. There is no purpose for these in a civilized society - if thats what we are. Rifles, pistols, antiques, thats fine.
    There is, in fact, good reason for semi-automatic hunting rifles and shotguns. However, if you haven't hit your game in 3 shots, they're probably gone. Or, that (insert ferocious beast here) has closed the distance between you and it's chewing on your lifeless body.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  11. #11
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Someplace between yesterday and tomorrow.
    Posts
    12,116
    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    There is, in fact, good reason for semi-automatic hunting rifles and shotguns. However, if you haven't hit your game in 3 shots, they're probably gone. Or, that (insert ferocious beast here) has closed the distance between you and it's chewing on your lifeless body.
    I use a semiautomatic 12 gauge for bird hunting. It is not about shooting at the same bird 3 times, it is about shooting 3 birds when you see them. It is frequent that when once gets flushed out, you will see several. It might also be the only birds that you see all day.

    Is there anyone in here who has a CCW or CPL?
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

  12. #12
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 1998
    Location
    On the Mother River
    Posts
    4,535
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I use a semiautomatic 12 gauge for bird hunting. It is not about shooting at the same bird 3 times, it is about shooting 3 birds when you see them. It is frequent that when once gets flushed out, you will see several. It might also be the only birds that you see all day.

    Is there anyone in here who has a CCW or CPL?

    If you shoot like I do, you need those extra shots. I have a carry permit.

    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    I think I already stated my feelings (as did many) in the political thread. No need for semi-automatic, fully automatic, assault or large magazine weapons. There is no purpose for these in a civilized society - if thats what we are. Rifles, pistols, antiques, thats fine.
    So you think my little 10 shot plinking .22 needs to be banned just because it's semi auto? I'm perfectly ok with banning mags over say 14 rounds.
    “As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Big Owl's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2004
    Location
    near the edge
    Posts
    859
    I have thought about getting a concealed carry permit but I don't have a need. I am not sure how it is in other states but here you can open carry without permits. When I think about that it scares me, as the concealed carry permit is restrictive but open carry isn't at all. With that said back when I worked on a beef cattle farm I occasionally opened carried on the farm, particularly while vaccinating, sorting, and birthing in case there was a need to put an animal down. It wasn't an enjoyable task but sometimes necessary. It was common for farmers to open carry at equipment and animal sales, I guess because of habit and large sums of money.

    As far as restrictions, I don't think semi-automatic should not be restricted but I am okay with limiting capacity. But I could live with a single shot as I would use less ammo during my range sessions, which would save me money.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Colo Front Range
    Posts
    2,372
    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    I think I already stated my feelings (as did many) in the political thread. No need for semi-automatic, fully automatic, assault or large magazine weapons. There is no purpose for these in a civilized society - if thats what we are. Rifles, pistols, antiques, thats fine.
    We had a pro-gun rally at the Capitol yesterday. All the news outlets had to broadcast the one nutter who insisted everyone needed a semi-auto with large clip because you never know when a "flash mob" will come trying to take your stuff. Precious nuttery.

    That said, the practical application of a heroized, militarized society was on display yesterday in Oregon, where two well-socialized and highly-functioning boys wanted to make a point, so they walked around town each with a semi-auto. Patriotism, manliness, and heroism ensued.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  15. #15
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Down by Dun Ringill
    Posts
    5,857
    Blog entries
    6
    Quote Originally posted by ColoGI View post
    We had a pro-gun rally at the Capitol yesterday. All the news outlets had to broadcast the one nutter who insisted everyone needed a semi-auto with large clip because you never know when a "flash mob" will come trying to take your stuff. Precious nuttery. [/URL]
    Makes me feel safer knowing the paranoid have access to assault rifles with large capacity clips. We simply cannot have flash mobs breaking out in unchoreographed dances and assorted tomfoolery..
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

    ~ Otterpop ~

  16. #16
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Land of Confusion
    Posts
    3,736
    Quote Originally posted by ofos View post
    There is, in fact, good reason for semi-automatic hunting rifles and shotguns. However, if you haven't hit your game in 3 shots, they're probably gone. Or, that (insert ferocious beast here) has closed the distance between you and it's chewing on your lifeless body.
    Do people hunt with AR-15s? Serious question.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Slightly Off-Center
    Posts
    8,258
    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    Do people hunt with AR-15s? Serious question.
    Serious answer: Yes, I know people here in Texas who use them to hunt feral hogs. That's probably about the only hunting application that I would agree with.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  18. #18
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hang on Sloopy...land
    Posts
    9,634
    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    Do people hunt with AR-15s? Serious question.
    Only if you don't want to eat it.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Gale Crater
    Posts
    2,845
    Does anyone know where I can find data - if it exists - on U.S. gun ownership on a per capita basis by metro region, county, tract, or some other geography? It would be interesting to create a choropleth map of this data. I googled it quickly and found some interesting results, but not exactly what I am looking for. Many Eyes has international data on homicide rate and gun ownership.

  20. #20
    Cyburbian dw914er's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,120
    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    My definition of an assault type weapon is a large capacity magazine capable, self loading weapon. Most hunting rifles hold 10 rounds at most. A Ruger Varminter or other popular model is a one shot rifle.

    Anyone who argues they need more than 10 rounds a once is either A.) A horrible shot, or B.) Crazy.
    If I remember correctly, California's legal limit is 10 rounds. It's hard to see why you would need more than that, even with the self defense argument.

    Quote Originally posted by Big Owl View post
    I have thought about getting a concealed carry permit but I don't have a need. I am not sure how it is in other states but here you can open carry without permits. When I think about that it scares me, as the concealed carry permit is restrictive but open carry isn't at all. With that said back when I worked on a beef cattle farm I occasionally opened carried on the farm, particularly while vaccinating, sorting, and birthing in case there was a need to put an animal down. It wasn't an enjoyable task but sometimes necessary. It was common for farmers to open carry at equipment and animal sales, I guess because of habit and large sums of money.
    I thought about a CC permit, but 1) I don't have a real need for it, and 2) it is fairly difficult in the State of California. I've been in a situation where it probably could have helped, but I'm here now so .

    I know that, until recently, CA allowed for open carry of handguns and rifles. I've heard that different gun owner organizations would have public gathering where they would open carry, just because they could. I feel like that is bad PR; after all, it would be quite a shock to be at some Starbucks and see a bunch of guys with guns walk in. California has banned open-carry of handguns, and I think is trying to to stop open-carry of rifles and shotguns. I would have to do some research in order to confirm this information though.
    And that concludes staff’s presentation...

  21. #21
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
    Registered
    May 2004
    Location
    Snarkville
    Posts
    6,587
    The status quo is actually incorrect- as background checks are not required in all instances. I would like to see that.

    I support registration and mandatory background checks even on person to person sales. I also am not opposed to banning high capacity magazines.

    The opposition to regsitration is an interesting one. So far the only reason I have heard of to oppose that is that the government and the UN is going to come and take all our guns and that people need to own guns off the governments radar so that they can fight against the US government. I'm amazed that this is such a popular mindset.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian ofos's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Slightly Off-Center
    Posts
    8,258
    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    The status quo is actually incorrect- as background checks are not required in all instances. I would like to see that.

    I support registration and mandatory background checks even on person to person sales. I also am not opposed to banning high capacity magazines.

    The opposition to regsitration is an interesting one. So far the only reason I have heard of to oppose that is that the government and the UN is going to come and take all our guns and that people need to own guns off the governments radar so that they can fight against the US government. I'm amazed that this is such a popular mindset.
    It's not so surprising, both the far right and far left have always feared the US government. In the 60's, the left used bombs against the government to protest war. That's not a lot different that the right feeling that they need guns to protect themselves.
    “Death comes when memories of the past exceed the vision for the future.”

  23. #23
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wishing I were in Asia somewhere!
    Posts
    9,634
    Blog entries
    5
    I would like to see a national set of firearms laws (a la the Brady Campaign) rather than state by state legislation. I live in one of the most restrictive states for firearms and I am perfectly ok with that as I have no desire to own a firearm of any time. I have many friends that are gun owners and they are ok with the laws as well-as most of them say, we like our firearms and aren't up to anything criminal so while we don't have instant gratification, there is a process in place that allows for ownership.

    As someone mentioned about crimes being committed with illegally gotten firearms, that is very true but one has to assume that at some point those firearms were legally obtained. The ATF traces firearms that were seized either because of crime, investigation, or illegal possession. Here is the most recent report for New Jersey which indicates that of the 2,063 firearms that were traceable, 432 were traceable to NJ itself, 363 to PA, and quite a few down the I-95 corridor states all which have less restrictive laws. The time to crime of those firearms averaged 13.66 years.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  24. #24
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Remote command post at local bar
    Posts
    3,822
    I tend to two ideas for gun control - yes it's amazing that I even have one.
    First - how do we keep the guns away from the crazy people? I don't care if you own a gun, you're not going to use it unless some shoots at your flash mob. I don't have a brilliant answer, just an idea.
    Second, there should be a limit on ammo capacity. If you can't hit your deer/duck/lion in three or four shots you need to practice more before going hunting again. If you can't kill/wound/scare away a thief in say 10 rounds, maybe guns aren't right for you.

    Now for bonus ideas...Most of us are not trained on gun use. I'm not talking a safety class and how to clean it. I'm talking about using a firearm in a live fire situation. Many experienced police officers will end up shooting the ground on the first shot because of their nerves. I don't want to know what an idiot like me would hit (I actually am a decent shot). Next, this isn't the movies, most people can't hit the bad guy in a crowd or when he has a hostage.

    Last, I saw some comedian - can't remember his name - talk about guns. He has this whole routine about going back to muskets. You get one shot and most of those miss. Then he does the whole angry reloading routine. By the time you reload, you're either not angry anymore or the person ran away.

    Whatever side of guns you stand on, can we at least have an inteligent argument and stop with the sound bites about how a gun would have saved lives if an armed person were there.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  25. #25
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Someplace between yesterday and tomorrow.
    Posts
    12,116
    Both guns are semiautomatic that shoot a .308 round, center load with a cartridge.


    The only real difference is the maximum load capacity. The 1st gun can hold a 22 round clip and the second has a 4 round clip. Beyond that, there are some minor operational (pump v bolt, spring placements, and such) and cosmetic parts.

    Can someone tell me how this makes one gun "evil" and the other one good?

    I was helping a very pro-gun friend move some furniture last night and we were talking about regulations. He pointed out that he too would like to see uniform national regulations on guns, including requiring classes on how to operate, maintain, and property store a gun before you can buy a hand gun.

    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    Last, I saw some comedian - can't remember his name - talk about guns. He has this whole routine about going back to muskets. You get one shot and most of those miss. Then he does the whole angry reloading routine. By the time you reload, you're either not angry anymore or the person ran away.
    On the other hand, by the time you reload, you might be dead. A CCW instructor here was recently interviewed and was asked about people who have fake guns in their house to protect themselves, and he said that was the stupidest thing they could do. If a person has the guts to break in and if they have a gun, they are not going to run away because the kill or be killed mentality will kick in and they will start shooting.
    Not my monkey, not my circus. - Old Polish Proverb

+ Reply to thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 ... LastLast

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 36
    Last post: 13 Sep 2013, 9:41 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last post: 22 Mar 2013, 11:30 AM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last post: 06 Jan 2007, 9:03 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last post: 11 Feb 2005, 11:39 AM