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Thread: Patriot community: not only gated, but walled, wired, and mined!

  1. #26
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by wahday View post
    I also like how they tout that there will be no HOA or folks from City Hall telling them what to do (including the "recycling police"), but there is apparently, with respect to residency, "a select panel of full-time Residents who will determine allowances for absences." There is also “an arbitration panel consisting of Citadel Residents” who can decide on disciplinary action for behaviors that violate the agreement (including revoking the Lifetime Lease). But that's not an HOA, I guess. TOTALLY different from enforcing CC&Rs, right? Hey, at least they are free from tyranny!
    I promise you the irony would be missed by them.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  2. #27
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Wow, I can see why this would be a world-class tourist destination designed to keep the tourists away!

    Personally, I think hippie communes would do a better job of granting freedom to their residents. Aside from the fact that both hippies and liberty-seekers would establish rules to determine how they live together, the hippies tend to be more permissive overall. Additionally, instead of walls and guns, the hippie communes are likely to produce their own food and renewable energy, rather than depend on power lines and stockpiles. And as other have commented, just about any military (even Canada) would level and overrun their compound in a matter of hours, with little more than an infantry battalion. Add in artillery and it will go much quicker.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

  3. #28
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    Wow, I can see why this would be a world-class tourist destination designed to keep the tourists away!

    Personally, I think hippie communes would do a better job of granting freedom to their residents. Aside from the fact that both hippies and liberty-seekers would establish rules to determine how they live together, the hippies tend to be more permissive overall. Additionally, instead of walls and guns, the hippie communes are likely to produce their own food and renewable energy, rather than depend on power lines and stockpiles. And as other have commented, just about any military (even Canada) would level and overrun their compound in a matter of hours, with little more than an infantry battalion. Add in artillery and it will go much quicker.
    People tend to forget the military has blockbuster bombs. I'm sure that if the government wanted to level a place, it wouldn't take long. The days of Masada are long, long gone.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  4. #29
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    Wow, I can see why this would be a world-class tourist destination designed to keep the tourists away!

    Personally, I think hippie communes would do a better job of granting freedom to their residents. Aside from the fact that both hippies and liberty-seekers would establish rules to determine how they live together, the hippies tend to be more permissive overall. Additionally, instead of walls and guns, the hippie communes are likely to produce their own food and renewable energy, rather than depend on power lines and stockpiles. And as other have commented, just about any military (even Canada) would level and overrun their compound in a matter of hours, with little more than an infantry battalion. Add in artillery and it will go much quicker.
    I definitely agree with the freedom part. And they can grow their own Amendment 64 for fiber and recreation!
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  5. #30
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    On further reflection, it occurs to me that maybe the compound isn't intended to resist our government's military might so much as its police forces. That compound would be a formidable nut to crack for any state police or even ATF. Add in the presence of children living there and you've effectively ended virtually any attempt at force before it's even begun.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  6. #31
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
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    Now we're talking Waco all over again, but as the say in their FAQ:
    Won't The Federal Government or Military Simply Blow Up Your Town?
    Why would they? We are a law-abiding group of people minding our own business. We are conducting our affairs in an open and transparent manner. The Citadel Community is designed to be a safe haven and a major tourist destination. The U.S. Government does not make a habit of blowing up law abiding citizens and tourists on American soil.

    As for the tourist part, come one everyone lets go see the wakos with guns! I heard if you bring your own gun you get a free target with a picture of the president.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  7. #32
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    From the site:

    http://iiicitadel.com/about.html

    The Citadel will be a small planned community of 3,500 - 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who voluntarily choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of Rightful Liberty.
    Planned community? I thought planning was communist; a gross violation of personal liberty. You mean a man can't do what he wants to do with their land? Oh, wait ... it's okay if there's lots of guns.

    http://iiicitadel.com/about.html

    Walking paths, orchards, and stands of woods will be incorporated throughout the space within the walls, adding privacy and aesthetically pleasing green spaces. Public gardens with both flowers and vegetables will enhance the experience of residents and visitors alike. Water features (canals, ponds and waterfalls) will also offer picturesque retreats.
    So, something like this?







    Well, not exactly. Here's the concept plan..



    Oh God.

    First thing that comes to mind, as a Patriotic American Patriot: where's the parking? Ain't got no damn roads.

    Secondly, it looks like the kind of fantasy town plan some neckbeard would make for a role playing game.



    No blacksmith? No tavern? No mage's guild hall? No alchemist, or place to buy spells? What kind of half-assed Dungeons and Dragons town is that?

    http://iiicitadel.com/about.html

    In essence, Rightful Liberty means that neighbors keep their noses out of other neighbors' business, that neighbors live and let live.
    Then why live together as a group? If you don't want anyone knowing your business, why not move to the middle of nowhere There's already plenty of places to do that.



    The Founding Fathers would be proud.





    ..
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  8. #33
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Dan View post
    it looks like the kind of fantasy town plan some neckbeard would make for a role playing game.

    [coffee spew!] POTD!
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  9. #34
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Where will the public executions be held?

  10. #35
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    Where will the public executions be held?
    In the dungeon of freedom of course!
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  11. #36
    Cyburbian btrage's avatar
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    I think I want to live there.
    "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany"

  12. #37
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    I know this place was conjured up in sheer insanity, but what's with the interior defensive walls and towers separating the neighborhoods? Are the various residential areas supposed to be at war with each other middle-earth style or something?

  13. #38
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    [coffee spew!] POTD!
    AR-15s, magic missile spells ... same thing. Also consider this ...

    http://www.iiicitadel.com/revenue.html

    Additionally, we plan on forming our own bank that will issue Citadel coins in silver and gold.
    Their currency is going to be gold and silver pieces! They don't accept worthless fiat currency for tankards of ale at Ye Locke And Loade.

    Forsooth, fair camouflaged and bearded one whose name is none of my damned business! That Desert Eagle isn't worth a copper over two gold and three silver pieces. And those MREs? Ha! Hardly worth a bronze.

    Quote Originally posted by Hink View post
    In the dungeon of freedom of course!
    Is that in the basement of The Patrick Henry Jail of Liberty?
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  14. #39
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by btrage View post
    I think I want to live there.
    I will have to admit the firearms made by the backers of the project seem nice. I like the idea that they're not "safe queens."

    On that note, looking at their restrictive covenants Patriot Agreement, there's the following:

    Two: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with the rifle of his/her choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 100 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.

    Three: Every able-bodied Patriot aged 13 and older governed by this Agreement shall annually demonstrate proficiency with a handgun of choice by hitting a man-sized steel target at 25 yards with open sights at the Citadel range. Each Resident shall have 10 shots and must hit the target at least 7 times.



    Seven: Every child attending Citadel schools — with parental discretion for maturity — shall have as part of every semester's class curriculum basic marksmanship and firearms safety training leading to the proficiency test on the child's 13th birthday as a "Coming of Age" rite of passage (a parent may attend the classes or personally train the child if so desired). Children attending schools beyond the Citadel, or home-schooled, are required to meet the same proficiency standards at age 13.
    You know, that might be a good model for firearms owner licensing. WHAT
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  15. #40
    Cyburbian imaplanner's avatar
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    Patriot: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.
    Children in the back seat can cause accidents - and vice versa.

  16. #41
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by imaplanner View post
    Patriot: one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.
    ...But that is not how they define it..Don't impose your values and education on them...they're FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.....to define it anyway they please.
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Let's not be didactic in this profession, because that is a path to disillusion and irrelevancy.

    Six seasons and a movie!

  17. #42
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    On further reflection, it occurs to me that maybe the compound isn't intended to resist our government's military might so much as its police forces. That compound would be a formidable nut to crack for any state police or even ATF. Add in the presence of children living there and you've effectively ended virtually any attempt at force before it's even begun.
    Montana has a little experience with these sort of scenarios. What has worked for law enforcement when there is someone in one of the compounds they need to arrest for tax evasion, weapons charges, domestic assault, whatever, is the police stake the place out and wait for their man or woman to come out, then they follow them until they are a good distance away before they surround the person they want with a lot of police officers. The cops are of course fully suited up with flak vests and assault weapons. Most of the time, for all their bluster, the person gives up without a shot.

    Unfortunately for the county involved this method requires a lot of man hours waiting for their opportunity. I recall one incidence where officers in ghilly suits had to watch the man's house for weeks. The man was wanted for shooting a police officer, I believe. Anyway, once the man drove off his property the police surrounded him with a massive show of force and he gave up meek as a lamb.
    "I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

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  18. #43
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    I hate to even ask this, but is that enough housing density to support a Town Center of that size?
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  19. #44
    Cyburbian ColoGI's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by hilldweller View post
    I know this place was conjured up in sheer insanity, but what's with the interior defensive walls and towers separating the neighborhoods?
    You know what it is: to keep track of the movement of the wimmins.
    -------
    Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian beach_bum's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by beach_bum View post
    I hate to even ask this, but is that enough housing density to support a Town Center of that size?
    Wait a second, why would a commie planner being involved in the design of this project?
    "Never invest in any idea you can't illustrate with a crayon." ~Peter Lynch

  21. #46
    Cyburbian
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    Wonder if everything is cement just so they can try to avoid another Waco.

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Plus Whose Yur Planner's avatar
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    One of us should hack their website and substitute our own layout for this little piece of heaven.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

  23. #48
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
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    My house will be arrchitecturally pleaasing like this...


    Are windows even allowed since they would lower the defensive nature of my house? After all, what if my neighbors break through that interior wall defense.
    Also, does my out house have to concrete as well?
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  24. #49
    OH....IO Hink's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Whose Yur Planner View post
    One of us should hack their website and substitute our own layout for this little piece of heaven.
    I am pretty sure my 4 year old could produce a better plan. Although he wouldn't have as many guns in it. Probably more candy stores.
    A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams

  25. #50
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Blide View post
    Wonder if everything is cement just so they can try to avoid another Waco.
    What's to stop the ATF from tunneling under the walls?

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