Introduction Paris-Chicago

[christinejosephine]

Hello,

I am an American who has lived in Paris for about ten years. I have a masters in Urban
Planning from a state school. I am also an RN. I worked a year as a project manager
intern before moving to Paris with my French husband, had a kid and haven't worked
as a planner since leaving.

We are moving this summer to Chicago and I will start out as a nurse just to work right away.
I read a very helpful thread about the planning jobs situation in Chicago. It sounds competitive
although, it wouldn't be my first planning experience, so hopefully that would help.

From what I saw on the thread, on working in Chicago, is that it takes a while to find a job
and it's really competitive. My first thought was that I might try research nursing as
it's days and with a masters it's fairly easy to find jobs and management positions.

Just hello guys, and I am interested in anything you might add about Chicago planning.
Does anyone know what a first year planner makes these days? I know nurses earn
about 60K a year so I cringe to think what entry level or first year planners make?

I was on this site about jeese, five or six years ago and found the humor funny and
liked the irreverence? I am a terrible speller sorry. I can speak French big whoop.
Let's see, really excited about being around more family in the area.

Also, any ideas about PhD pathways? I have a mild curiosity about PhD programs
at the moment. In planning or public policy or community health something or other.
Not a burning desire at the time but something I would like to look into.

Toodles Poodles

[Richmond Jake]

Irreverence? Here? No way. As an RN, do you were those white stockings/pantyhose with the seam running up the back? That's hot looking.

Greetings from the Florida panhandle.

[christinejosephine]

"Lick my boot you worm", was all I could say like a robot when I was a nurse.

[christinejosephine]

I just wrote on a link about Paris suburbs and then realized the last post was from 2005! JEESE,

Plus notice that people view regularly but rarely write notes. I guess I am a bit disappointed. I was on an ex-patriot site for these last years and we wrote each other all the time. It is more fun that way for whatever reason. Anyhoo, we are getting excited about the move to Chicago. Before I had met my husband my plan had been to move to a bigger city so it's neat that we get to go as a family. In a weird way it's like a honeymoon and starting
all over. We get to buy new dishes and stuff.

Still interested in any info in general about entry level planning positions. pay, duties, chances of getting jobs, anything people have to add would be great because I have been in Paris
so long I am really out of it. I was just telling my husband that coming with him to Paris these last 8 years or so and having our son has kinda put me behind career wise in planning. I can always work as a nurse but I would really like to try use my master in planning I got it wasn't easy to do or anything.

Also, interested in anyone who is in a PhD program. i was reading yet another older thread and saw that people kinda think about it a lot before doing anything it seems. I am going to start by taking a class in the program I am interested in once I get settled in Chicago. I am also curious about volunteering a little when we move. Are there any PhD programs that anyone knows of that don't require a GRE. I actually went to a masters program that didn't require a GRE. Oh, if I had to take it I could prepare like anyone I guess.

[Hink]

Welcome from the Great State of Ohio! Glad to have you. Feel free to create a thread in the appropriate forum and you will likely get a better response than in the introduce yourself subforum. Not many people meander to these parts of Cyburbia...

[christinejosephine]

I just had the same idea. I know keeping up this sites is a lot of work so I appreciate anyone who does that for us strangers. And thanks for the hello. One suggestion would be a bulletin board or message board format which you can scroll and seems to provoke constant conversation? That was how the expat site seemed to keep us all enthralled. Anyway, part of me is just thinking outloud. Thanks for the kindly suggestion. Your fan c

[DetroitPlanner]

You're far too funny for Chicago. Detroit is more your style. But alas there are few planning jobs here, though there is a lot of work to be done!

[mendelman]

Welcome from southwest Ohio! I was a municipal planner in the Chicago suburbs for almost 8 years. I have been trying to get back, but I'm at a point in my career where I need a mid level or senior level management position and those are very competitive in the region. I started in entry level in 2002 in Chicagoland and was able to get something fairly quickly, but I was right out of my MUP program from UofM and timed it just right.

My advice for you would be, if your household finances can handle it, try to stick to unpaid internships/volunteer positions (BZAs, Planning Commissions, etc) and get 1-2 years of experience that way, then start looking for permanent full-time positions.

Regardless, good luck and welcome to Cyburbia!

[christinejosephine]

I am way past the work for free crap. I have an RN and can start at 70K a year if my hands are claws and my eyes spin around in my head and i wear gold shoes, and those are the sane nurses. If i stop one eye spinning I could go into management and earn 10K more. so BIG NOWAY TO FREE INTERNSHIPS.

my last year in the usa i worked a year as a hospital planner paid intern, pretty well paid, and worked prn as a nurse in the ER and it was okay. I was well liked and connected there so it was possible, as planning jobs were scarce were I went to graduate school. I went to graduate school at the University of New Mexico by the way and finished my course work and worked a year in 2003-4 and then returned to France. I went to france as an older grad student in 2002-3 went back a year and a half and now have lived here 8 YEARS.

So, no, no, no to internships with my alternative earning capacity I can't stand the thought. I am 48, which adds another layer of difficulty. Although Im not as fat as the hills and could pass for 45, so normal looking. Hello to the guy from Detroit by the way. My favorite cousin is a truck driver and he always teases me about moving to Detroit I dont know why. I think he had a crazy girlfriend who made him live there once. I dunno why he teases me about moving to Detroit.

I guess what I could possibly do is get a volunteer job around "clout" and throw myself at politicians in Chicago until someone gives me a job. I will also look into possibly doing some sort of clinic planning for the federal government as I figure with the new health insurance they are going to start leasing buildings for clinics all sorts of things could come up with the health care expansion. I might be able to worm my way into something even at my age using the health care angle.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. It helps me kinda think out loud.

Chris

[mendelman]

Cool. Just giving some advice from the planning job prospect perspective. Sounds like you have a good idea what you're looking for, but just be aware that you will likely be a very unlikely candidate for a mid-level municipal planning and entry level is going to start at mid-$40k.

[christinejosephine]

Okay, that gives me a rough idea. I certainly enjoy planning and like working on projects. I don't mind starting somewhere just not zero or 6K a year or whatever. I actually don't mind being a nurse I like helping people and am extroverted and enjoy public speaking etc. to a point.

I am a bit sad that I got married and came to Paris and maybe might have to suck it up and realize that I might have let a planning career go by coming to Paris. I dunno, only time will tell. I guess I will try to get a planning job with the thought that I am not your typical candidate.

Working in that small planning office for one year was very different than traditional city planning. We did a lot of office and complicated lab moves and remodels and small projects like snack machines and flag poles the bids to installation. Our office also had two big buildings under construction at the time I worked there.

I also had this weird side-job of writing an office procedure manual. It drove me nuts. After writing 250 pages the office whittled it down to 50 templates and they still use it. Sorry i am being careless with typos although we dont type anymore and i cant call them grammar errors? anyhoo, even the information gave me something to go on.

chris

[christinejosephine]

I wanted to add that space was a huge issue to people when I worked as an intern at that university hospital planning office. I guess universities or hospitals are like island people with only tiny patches of land to grow carrots and so carrots get really expensive. People like their office space their classroom space, the storage issues on and on. I didn't mention it in the previous email just other things that how facilities planning seems a lot different than municipal planning. They had a person who did the space issues. Although I would like the people part of community or municipal planning.

Now I am rambling a bit. I guess I would be delighted to hear about your job duties or anyone on this link who would like to describe their job a little?

Thanks in advance, Chris

[DetroitPlanner]

My job? I am a juggler of money!

It is my responsibility to make sure that no federal money goes unspent. Unfortunately its other peoples jobs to lie about the progress they make!

[christinejosephine]

I read the NYTs online although I love print newspaper reading being a bit older. I read about a planner who sounded like he had a similar job to yours and he often under spent funds. Anyway are you a program director of some sort? You don't need to go into details and satisfy my curiosity. I often have read about Detroit and for all the Roger and Me stuff I think it will be a viable city once again. After living in Europe I feel like Americans really don't take any sort of long view. The USA is the number one economy for all the whining out of 200 countries in the world. Although nobody can suffer like us. Your fan c

[christinejosephine]

On reflecting on my poor usage of language I wanted to say sorry for writing the word crap. I got riled up. Thanks again for giving me some information on starting salaries. Planning is happier than nursing. You get burned out with all the troubles and at least in Planning its just normal chicken-ah crap job, not such sad tales; oops that word again. your fan c

[DetroitPlanner]

I'd rather shoot myself than be a PD. You can keep your extra $5k per year. No way am I managing the brain-dead slackers!

[christinejosephine]

The program director question was actually my own private joke because I had read has the least job satisfaction of any type job. Are you and underwriter? I am having a realization that I might be really scrambling when I get back to the USA even for nursing jobs? Although I think I can pick up agency work fairly easily and get back into it as long as it is more administrative and social worky. Since living in France I have tried writing novels and have written four and take care of my kid. I heard that it takes about four novels worth of writing before you get a sense of what your after.

Anyway my point is that I have been out of the work force I might have to be realistic about my job prospects and even nursing might take some effort to get a job at first much less planning. Although, I dunno, Chicago is a big city. There is room for me there someplace I am certain. I am curious about the federal planning jobs around healthcare. I am not really interested in working for a hospital again nor a university like I did for a year. Working for the city of Chicago sounds competitive and actually a huge pay cut from nursing for entry level planning jobs if they start at around 40K when 60-70K is kinda the base pay for a nurse. So, likely won't try at the city. My feeling is my best route is to get a nursing job and apply for federal jobs around health care planning. I wonder with this health care expansion if I could do some sort of planning in that area? I am just thinking out loud.

Will certainly start out in a nursing job as why kill myself to try and get an entry level planning job (that sounds like I have little chance of getting anyway) and earn 20K less a year. I guess the first year I will stick to nursing and once we get settled see if I can find something related to health care planning.

Of my classmates many work for federal agencies in New Mexico. I have little interest in going back to New Mexico. I moved there as a teen and lived there 25 years but the economy is really bad and it only has 1.5 million people in the entire state and little industry. Most of my family is around Chicago and now that I have a kid it's more important for me to be around family. Plus I think for my husband, Chicago bing a bigger city there are more French people around. I am optimistic about moving there.

Okay, I guess I have answered some of my own questions with the skinniest of information provided. Reading some of the other OLDER very old threads gave me some ideas also.

toodles poodles

[christinejosephine]

Hello,

One thing that Europe excels over the rest of the world especially the USA is most European countries have good comprehensive energy policies that tax gasoline and put that money into good pubic transport. Outside of big cities in the USA most public transportation are buses and considered a direct subsidy to the poor, no kidding. Just ask any city council person say in Boise Idaho. So, urban areas are more energy policy open than rural areas which are very dependent on fossil fuels and cars. In France for instance the public transport is pretty good even in rural areas.

I am from the USA and have lived in a Paris suburb for 8 years. Paris is a center city of 2 million (total 12 million with the suburbs) that the metros or subways go until the city limits. The Suburbs are mostly connected by train called the RERs here. There are also RERS through Paris. The difference is that the metros are in the city proper and the trains go everywhere and out to the suburbs. There is also an extensive bus system. From city to city and also intercity. A gallon of gas is about 9 US dollars here. Every time I hear all that whining I want to point that out. Oh and since the mention of trains the SCNF trains go to the rest of Europe.

My opinion of Paris suburbs. Well, it depends on the suburb. I don't think they are violent by American standards. Most normal down towns in the USA I would be more fearful for my life at night than in a Paris suburb for the fact that they don't have handguns here. Also, some suburbs are new and modern built since the last 30 years and others are hundreds of years old and just that fact makes the buildings older etc. Also, the building standards are different in Europe than in the USA. Buildings are concrete block walls and made to last.
I don't know how to begin to describe the differences in construction but its really different.

Lastly, the suburbs are suburbs in the sense that the city of Paris is more fun and international and the suburbs more boring and less to do, more a place to sleep to go to the city to work etc. So, like all suburbs its less exciting. Although it is a trade off to buy a less expensive place. Prices are crazy high here. Also renting is totally different, three months notice, nothing in an apt not even a sink and toilet in some cases so very different than the US for renting most foreigners go through an agency and rent temp places. The suburb I live in is nice I live by a big green space and we go walking by the lake a lot and have a back yard which is not that common in France. Its a lot different than living in Paris.

Chris

[christinejosephine]

I was thinking about the ridiculousness of the cost of a planning masters which i was lucky that my work paid for all of my planning degree but that two year nurses can earn 60K while six year planners have 40-60K of debt start at 40K, makes me want to go totally uncool!!!!!! jeese that in this day of age anyone is expecting anyone to work for free is beyond me. For cool? I am done being cool and will definately not set one foot into any job that offers me 40K to start if i have "clout", jeese, double jeese!

[DetroitPlanner]

Two year nurses are also stuck cleaning up poop and other disgusting fluids. I don't think the pay is out of whack for what they do.

In terms of what I do, is I am the point person in a very large, complex, Capital Improvement Program.

[Maister]

Welcome from 2 hours north of Chicago!

You worked as an RN? You are herewith ordered to report to this thread!

[christinejosephine]

Hi back Meister and the person from Detroit. Just glad anyone writes back on this site, thoust gettith like a millionith views but nobody talkin? I was afraid to be a nurse and worked my way through nursing school as a tech in a psych hospitals on weekends. we could smoke back then and play checkers, now its more serious and mostly outpatient.

I just had to fill out my work history as a nurse for my illinois nursing license and i worked one year in ortho, two years in an ER, which basically wrecked me for a lifetime of nursing; came to the conclusion in my little cowtown in the middle of nowhere that people are very dangerous everywhere.

then I did homecare which is a lot of iv stuff for people who are well enough to stay home and then worked as an insurance nurse casemanage for three years and during graduate school worked afternoons in this sunny psychiatrists clinic where i did the insurance 20 hours a week afternoons and the university paid my entire graduate program.

So, i did official nursing for one year of my entire 15 years of nursing, seriously, even in the er techs draw all the labs and the doctors place the trachs and do all the difficult small procedures like chest tubes and spinal taps. nurses are mostly for keeping things moving very very fast. although you have to do all that other stuff too. i was beloved in a weird way because i can think really fast and am calm under difficult situations. they wanted to make me a manager but we had a very bad shooting and i went to home care. so i worked at the same hospital from 1989 to 2004 although the last two years casual pool. and the one year as a planner.

anyway, what i am saying is that my last oh, 10 years of nursing was in an office. so be really miffed because most of my friends earn 80K now and have humungo retirement funds with desk jobs. I like planning and just didnt think I could do nursing all my life. My first degree is in liberal arts and I just decided on the spur of the moment to become a nurse in my mid twenties it wasnt a life dream or anything; nor was planning;

by the way i am a huge doctor fan, people who come from backgrounds where they are good at math at a young age.

i am very careless with puncuation, everything; so if your eyes are bleeding from my gaffs sorry,

tata for now, see we have a new pope, father francis, looks like an italian from argentinia, a lot of italians imigrated there.

not that i am religious or anything just whats on tv at the moment. c

[christinejosephine]

I guess ultimately I am sad that one, entry level planning jobs are hard to come by and two that they start around 40K because i would prefer to work as a planner than a nurse. I might not be willing to one kill myself by throwing myself at "clout" to get a job but taking a 20K a year pay cut to start is very unappealing to me. As I mentioned regular ole nurse earn 60K.

I guess I want to complain about the injustice of planning salaries starting out so low as a masters degree in planning is not cheap and a lot of my graduate buddies have 40K plus in student loans for their graduate programs and more if they took loans out for their bachelors which many people do.

So, I am just frustrated that I can't do planning as readily as I would have liked too. Darn. I will start out working as a nurse and keep my eye open for health related planning jobs. For whatever reason working outside the city planning loop there are some better paying jobs.

I remember I did interview for one planning job before I took that year paid internship (and fairly well paid as my boss was a nurse who had become a planner also) I interviewed at a big engineering company and they mostly wanted me to do computer graphics and learn all these computer programs on planning. I was like eek, no way but that was the only other internship I interviewed for.

As for Maister working in an eye clinic, yes clinics are a bit insulated and all jobs suck after 3 months anyway no matter what the job. you name reminds me of the bergermeister meisterberger from rudolph the red nosed reindeer or one of those shows. I would be happy to make your aquaintance once we get to Chicago. We are still in Paris until mid July.

Let's see, Detroit planner, when I worked for one year as a planner we had several major capital projects going on as i worked as a project manager for the univeristy and one of the fun parts of our job was itnerfacing with the politicians in the state capital for bonds and praying the bonds passed.

i did like doing all teh last touch ups for this one building that they were doing; we gave all the buildings nicknames the building i worked on was a science research building were the ideas was to bring all these people from different diciplines in one building to try and generate reserach funding it was like a research funding incubator building it was neat;

my husband who has done a lot of work in the energy industry and ship building and i could relate as a building has a lot of the same stages of building as a a ship does; anyway, i am familiar with the process of major capital projects and the guy i worked driectly for was in charge of it and suffered cruelly;

anyway, it is with great saddness that i will work as a nurse but i cant take a pay cut as i have a family to support once we get to the usa until we get settled. and its fairly easy to find nursing work;

c

[christinejosephine]

Detroit planning i do agree that two year nurses do the un-cool work in the hospitals but 60K is not bad, yes 4 year nurses have more choices; and thats just what i did started out as a two year nurse and one class a semester became a 4 year nurse and moved on to office work. I still have some close friends who work on that ortho floor i started on, just thinking about how hard your first year of nursing is i dont like to think about it much. i do think nurses are overpaid its a weird history that nurses ended up earning so much; part of it is that once women had other career paths than teacher or nurse or mother or nun it became harder to find nurses; the number one degree earned now is a bachelors in business. i remember when hilary did her health care plan way back and i remember she wanted to freeze and reduce nurses salaries as a part of that plan i always think, grrrr. haha. it didnt pass anyway. and here in paris nursing is very modestly paid and they have a lot more responsibilities and because the civil system is different here there are few medical lawsuits; i briefly thought about becoming a nurse here in france but i would have had to go to nursing school a year and take the french test, i could have past the test but nursing school two times seemed a bit dark. so i have turned to novel writing; with zero success. although i havent tried to get an agent or anything very hard; anyway, i wanted to comment that yes two year nurses have hard jobs and planning is a better working environment. although it still bugs me that a masters in planning earns so little compared to a nurse and i would say its as difficult and more expensive to get a masters. it just bugs me the salary injustice.

well enough of my whining about the pay difference etc its about 10AM here and my six year old is home from school on spring break and we have plans to bake a cake.

hey, once we write 25 messages do we get to put up a photo? I want to put up a photo of josephine boneparte.

[Maister]

Sounds to me like you've pretty well defined what needs to be done and how you are likely to set about accomplishing it. We wish we could tell you that planning paid better than nursing, but as you've already found out that simply isn't so in the vast majority of cases. You have a family to take care of and nursing work will better help provide materially for them. Perhaps when your kids are older you'll have more opportuities to branch out into work that you find interesting and can better afford to earn a bit less in exchange.

As to meeting up sometime, every year Cyburbia usually has a few regional 'alefests' where online Cyburbians meet in person (usually at a microbrewery or brewpub). There is a relatively large contingent of Cyburbians found in the Great Lakes area and we've met up several times in the past. We're due for a well-attended one this year.
http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/show...y.php/cat/6157

There will likely be one scheduled for this summer (probably in Michigan). In the meantime feel free to chat about planning-related topics in the professional forums. Or get to know the 'regulars' better in the off-topic/social forums, where we talk about virtually everything under the sun.