The Importance of <fill in the blank> Eludes Me

[Wannaplan?]

Now that the Wolverines are back in the Final Four of College Basketball, there is a lot of nostalgia for the Fab Five era. Myself, I could care less. That was 20 years ago, and that era has many blemishes. I moved on. What happened in 1993 has no bearing on today's great Michigan team. Why can't we in Michigan enjoy these players without invoking the not so brilliant past? But news articles like this - Reunion is long overdue for Michigan's Fab Five players - foment nostalgia in many, when all I can muster is a quiet "Meh."

Are there subjects out there that seem to be of great importance to others and stirs the heart of many, yet disinterests you to no end?

[otterpop]

The importance of Ronald Reagan eludes me. I lived through the Reagan presidency. Some of the worst years of my adult life. Now, we have neo-conservatives, many of whom were kids when he was president, touting ole Ron.

He gets credit for bringing down the Soviet Union, Sure, by the two nations spending ourselves deep into debt through defense expenditures. The USA just had deeper pockets and The Soviets went down. We got a recession, a huge national debt, voodoo economics and the trickle down theory, as a result. I resented being trickled on. Though, really, the rich weren't trickling on us. It was pretty much a steady, hard and smelly stream.

[Maister]

I wish I could find it but once upon a time HarryFossetsHat (remember him?) posted about how there were people that STILL were reviewing and discussing England's performance at the FIFA World Cup....in 1966!

The importance of tweets pretty much eludes me. I'd be willing to reconsider my position on this if someone can convince me otherwise.

[Brocktoon]

The importance of Ronald Reagan eludes me. I lived through the Reagan presidency. Some of the worst years of my adult life. Now, we have neo-conservatives, many of whom were kids when he was president, touting ole Ron.

He gets credit for bringing down the Soviet Union, Sure, by the two nations spending ourselves deep into debt through defense expenditures. The USA just had deeper pockets and The Soviets went down. We got a recession, a huge national debt, voodoo economics and the trickle down theory, as a result. I resented being trickled on. Though, really, the rich weren't trickling on us. It was pretty much a steady, hard and smelly stream.

I am with you on Ronald Reagan. The same people that say he was the greatest president ever think that compromise, large structural deficits, tax increases and illegal immigration reform (his version was amnesty) are all terrible ideas yet these were major pieces of his 8 years in office. As for the USSR it was near collapse after its adventures in Afghanistan and spending 20% of its GDP on defense, lack of trade and several years of poor crops. Reagan got them to up increase their defense spending but the USSR would have collapsed regardless of who was President in the 1980's. Some scholars believe his rhetoric actually delayed the collapse for several years.

I don't get 80's nostalgia in general. The fashion, music and culture all sucked.

[illinoisplanner]

Maister, I totally agree with you on the importance of Twitter. It's basically the Facebook status function, except with character limits and geared more towards celebrities & their stalkers, exhibitionists, and voyeurs. What's so important about that??

I disagree with all of you on Reagan and the 80s though. Sometimes I wish I was born 15 to 20 years earlier so I could experience the decadence of this decade. Now I just feel like an outcast blaring Ratt and Whitesnake while I'm driving down the highway and voting Republican.

[Whose Yur Planner]

I don't get 80's nostalgia in general. The fashion, music and culture all sucked.

I agree. The 80's were my HS and college years and I have virtually no music form that era in my collection. People also tend to foget that it was the tail end of the cold war with all of that hysteria and paranoia still in the air.

ip, you really don't want to experience that era. For all the music you cite, there was a ton of crap-taco, culture club, men without hats, and the list is endless. There is a lot of rose colored glasses and revisionist history going on about that era. The whole no jobs when I graduate thing was in full swing when I got out of college. I just happended to land a job in planning and that was in code enforcement.

[illinoisplanner]

ip, you really don't want to experience that era. For all the music you cite, there was a ton of crap-taco, culture club, men without hats, and the list is endless.

That's true.

[Hink]

The NBA.

I love the college game, but the second you put a 20 year old in the NBA he loses all basketball skill and becomes just an athletic freak. Defense is non-existent and we all pretend like LeBron is SOO good. They are all great at pretending to play basketball. The fact is they only play offense, they complain about EVERYTHING, and they would only take a charge if their contract clearly gave them a bonus for doing so.

The fact that we pretend like this is the TOP of the game of basketball is lost on me.

[btrage]

The NBA.

I love the college game, but the second you put a 20 year old in the NBA he loses all basketball skill and becomes just an athletic freak. Defense is non-existent and we all pretend like LeBron is SOO good. They are all great at pretending to play basketball. The fact is they only play offense, they complain about EVERYTHING, and they would only take a charge if their contract clearly gave them a bonus for doing so.

The fact that we pretend like this is the TOP of the game of basketball is lost on me.

As a lover of all things basketball, I couldn't disagree more.

[Brocktoon]

I agree. The 80's were my HS and college years and I have virtually no music form that era in my collection. People also tend to foget that it was the tail end of the cold war with all of that hysteria and paranoia still in the air.

ip, you really don't want to experience that era. For all the music you cite, there was a ton of crap-taco, culture club, men without hats, and the list is endless. There is a lot of rose colored glasses and revisionist history going on about that era. The whole no jobs when I graduate thing was in full swing when I got out of college. I just happended to land a job in planning and that was in code enforcement.

Honestly, when I think of the 80's culture I think of Yuppies, nihilism, and conspicuous consumption.

IP, if I was going to pick a decase for you it would be the 1950's (minus the music.) It was a era when hard work, honesty, and community was rewarded and it was fashionable to vote Republican.

[imaplanner]

Just about everything lately. For instance, is it really that important that I don't wear the same pants two days in a row?

[beach_bum]

I am with you on Ronald Reagan. The same people that say he was the greatest president ever think that compromise, large structural deficits, tax increases and illegal immigration reform (his version was amnesty) are all terrible ideas yet these were major pieces of his 8 years in office. As for the USSR it was near collapse after its adventures in Afghanistan and spending 20% of its GDP on defense, lack of trade and several years of poor crops. Reagan got them to up increase their defense spending but the USSR would have collapsed regardless of who was President in the 1980's. Some scholars believe his rhetoric actually delayed the collapse for several years.

I don't get 80's nostalgia in general. The fashion, music and culture all sucked.

"The good old days weren't always that good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems"

People only tend to remember the good stuff or the really bad stuff, all the mediocrity gets lost. Fashion/trends/music/culture all tend to have a 20-25 year cycle, hence why you are seeing lots of late eighties/early nineties nostalgia. For example I saw a pair of floral print jeans in Target

[dandy_warhol]

Just about everything lately. For instance, is it really that important that I don't wear the same pants two days in a row?

Nope. I doubt most people would notice. I'll wear the same pants twice in a week but not on back-to-back days.

[Maister]

The whole March Madness thing eludes me. Guess I'm not much of a basketball fan, either collegiate or professional.

[Linda_D]

"The good old days weren't always that good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems"

People only tend to remember the good stuff or the really bad stuff, all the mediocrity gets lost. Fashion/trends/music/culture all tend to have a 20-25 year cycle, hence why you are seeing lots of late eighties/early nineties nostalgia. For example I saw a pair of floral print jeans in Target

That pretty much sums it up. Every era has its own pluses and minuses, and depending upon what your situation is, some past era might or might not be the "golden age" for you that you think it is. That's especially true if you're a woman or a person of color or gay/lesbian ,,, or a person employed in a field that didn't even exist or barely existed 30 or 60 years ago.

As for something whose importance eludes me, it would have to be all these staged "reality" competition shows like the various flavors of Survivor. I just don't get the attraction of these, but then, I don't watch professional wrestling, either.

[Planit]

The whole "Reality" show phenomenon eludes me. Badly scripted shows are not reality people.

They are cheap to produce and people enjoy watching train wrecks so they will probably keep them on tv

[Jazzman]

The NBA.

I love the college game, but the second you put a 20 year old in the NBA he loses all basketball skill and becomes just an athletic freak. Defense is non-existent and we all pretend like LeBron is SOO good. They are all great at pretending to play basketball. The fact is they only play offense, they complain about EVERYTHING, and they would only take a charge if their contract clearly gave them a bonus for doing so.

The fact that we pretend like this is the TOP of the game of basketball is lost on me.

I actually feel the exact opposite. I try so hard (especially this time of year) to get into college basketball. I'm a huge NBA fan, but I can't make myself watch more than one game of college ball in a week's time before the Final Four. I don't fill out brackets for this reason, but if people had the same kind of bracket competitions for the NBA playoffs that they did for college, I'd play every year.

Now to some extent, I understand your argument because college is definitely a more fundamental game than the NBA. I'm not saying I want to see the NBA become like a Harlem Globetrotters or And1 show. But there are fundamentally sound teams in the NBA, like San Antonio and Oklahoma City. Plus, the league has cleaned up a lot in the last 10 years or so. I have criticized LeBron in the past a lot, but at least he won't ever get caught spitting on a girl (Charles Barkley) or beating down innocent fans (Ron Artest), or intentionally kicking a cameraman in the crotch (Dennis Rodman). As entertaining as a lot of that stuff may be while I'm sitting in my living room, the truth of the matter is it's bad for the NBA and I think that in the last few years they've rooted out a lot of that buffoonery. NBA players are better behaved now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Would anybody object to a 10 year old kid looking up to Kevin Durant or LeBron James as a role model?

That being said, now that the league is cleaner, the one thing I think has been sacrificed in the NBA is physical play, especially from big men. I'm a fan of guys who know how to be rough and tough down in the post, but now the NBA has become more like the European basketball leagues where 7 foot tall guys are expected to hit 3 pointers. Sorry, I don't care how many long range jumpers Dirk Nowitzki hits, I still think Shaq was a much better big man - and he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was more than 5 feet away.

Bottom line, the NBA is in a good place right now, there's a healthy level of competition, I like the top players in the league a lot, and there's a lot fewer off-the-court issues now than there were in the past.

[Hink]

I actually feel the exact opposite.

... Would anybody object to a 10 year old kid looking up to Kevin Durant or LeBron James as a role model?

... but now the NBA has become more like the European basketball leagues where 7 foot tall guys are expected to hit 3 pointers.

Bottom line, the NBA is in a good place right now, there's a healthy level of competition, I like the top players in the league a lot, and there's a lot fewer off-the-court issues now than there were in the past.

I think the NBA has much better role models then the NFL, but my argument isn't against the character of the players, just the quality of play. Basketball is a game of fundamentals. Once you start allowing players to take 3 steps, ignoring palming the ball, and forcing fast play with a 24 second clock and no defense, you lose the essence of what makes basketball great. Until 10 years ago, the NBA did not allow zone defense. Are you kidding me? And now they have stupid rules like illegal defense, which pretty much penalizes good help side defense. Full court press? Nope. Trapping? Nope. My issue with the NBA is that instead of making it about athletic freaks who are beyond talented playing basketball, they make it about ally-oops, dunks, and highlight reels. Offensive is king and defense is penalized. To each their own, but I wouldn't pay a dime to see an NBA game, and I would pay $1k a seat to the NCAA championship game... even if Michigan is in it

[ofos]

I think the NBA has much better role models then the NFL, but my argument isn't against the character of the players, just the quality of play. Basketball is a game of fundamentals. Once you start allowing players to take 3 steps, ignoring palming the ball, and forcing fast play with a 24 second clock and no defense, you lose the essence of what makes basketball great. Until 10 years ago, the NBA did not allow zone defense. Are you kidding me? And now they have stupid rules like illegal defense, which pretty much penalizes good help side defense. Full court press? Nope. Trapping? Nope. My issue with the NBA is that instead of making it about athletic freaks who are beyond talented playing basketball, they make it about ally-oops, dunks, and highlight reels. Offensive is king and defense is penalized. To each their own, but I wouldn't pay a dime to see an NBA game, and I would pay $1k a seat to the NCAA championship game... even if Michigan is in it

When the only important part of the game (other than scoring exhibition) is the last 2 minutes and that takes 30 minutes to play, the NBA is a travesty. Don't even get me started on calling time out at the end of the court after a basket and then being allowed to bring it in a mid-court. I wouldn't even watch Michigan if college basketball was like that.

Go Blue!

[Whose Yur Planner]

I think the NBA has much better role models then the NFL, but my argument isn't against the character of the players, just the quality of play. Basketball is a game of fundamentals. Once you start allowing players to take 3 steps, ignoring palming the ball, and forcing fast play with a 24 second clock and no defense, you lose the essence of what makes basketball great. Until 10 years ago, the NBA did not allow zone defense. Are you kidding me? And now they have stupid rules like illegal defense, which pretty much penalizes good help side defense. Full court press? Nope. Trapping? Nope. My issue with the NBA is that instead of making it about athletic freaks who are beyond talented playing basketball, they make it about ally-oops, dunks, and highlight reels. Offensive is king and defense is penalized. To each their own, but I wouldn't pay a dime to see an NBA game, and I would pay $1k a seat to the NCAA championship game... even if Michigan is in it

I'll have to through in with Hink on this one. My problem with the NBA is the game itself. For most of the teams, it's run and gun, all offense. Granted, there are some college teams are that way, but the college game is about the basics. Growing up where I did, basketball is part of the culture and it starts early. After awhile you have a deep appreciation for the game when it done right. I find the pro game boring, and I'm a baseball fan. If a college game is on at the Y, I'll watch it. If a pro game os on, I'll read a book or play with my phone.

[btrage]

I actually feel the exact opposite. I try so hard (especially this time of year) to get into college basketball. I'm a huge NBA fan, but I can't make myself watch more than one game of college ball in a week's time before the Final Four. I don't fill out brackets for this reason, but if people had the same kind of bracket competitions for the NBA playoffs that they did for college, I'd play every year.

Now to some extent, I understand your argument because college is definitely a more fundamental game than the NBA. I'm not saying I want to see the NBA become like a Harlem Globetrotters or And1 show. But there are fundamentally sound teams in the NBA, like San Antonio and Oklahoma City. Plus, the league has cleaned up a lot in the last 10 years or so. I have criticized LeBron in the past a lot, but at least he won't ever get caught spitting on a girl (Charles Barkley) or beating down innocent fans (Ron Artest), or intentionally kicking a cameraman in the crotch (Dennis Rodman). As entertaining as a lot of that stuff may be while I'm sitting in my living room, the truth of the matter is it's bad for the NBA and I think that in the last few years they've rooted out a lot of that buffoonery. NBA players are better behaved now than they were 10 or 20 years ago. Would anybody object to a 10 year old kid looking up to Kevin Durant or LeBron James as a role model?

That being said, now that the league is cleaner, the one thing I think has been sacrificed in the NBA is physical play, especially from big men. I'm a fan of guys who know how to be rough and tough down in the post, but now the NBA has become more like the European basketball leagues where 7 foot tall guys are expected to hit 3 pointers. Sorry, I don't care how many long range jumpers Dirk Nowitzki hits, I still think Shaq was a much better big man - and he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if he was more than 5 feet away.

Bottom line, the NBA is in a good place right now, there's a healthy level of competition, I like the top players in the league a lot, and there's a lot fewer off-the-court issues now than there were in the past.

I think Jazzman makes excellent points.

I am tired of people saying that NBA players don't practice fundamentals. NBA players are extraordinary athletes, capable of extraordinary things. It really is the only professional sport where you hear this argument, and I don't understand why. Do they occasionally take a third step when driving to the rim? Sure. But NFL and NHL players get away with penalties all game long. I don't see the difference.

Yes, they have rules in the NBA which are designed to increase the amount of points scored (illegal defense, shorter shot clock, etc.), but that doesn't mean the game loses its fundamentals. I would argue it makes the offensive game that much more intricate.

As much as some people complain about offense vs. defense, the viewing public wants high scoring games.

I would argue that 90% of college basketball games are horribly played. Sure, little Johnny knows his fundamentals, but I don't care how well he can dribble the ball. I want him reigning threes from behind the arc, and attacking the rim with athleticism. I can't stand the 55-53 Big 10 snooze-fests.

[Brocktoon]

I don't understand peoples fascination with the British royals or celebrities in general . They only thing worse are those that are famous for being famous and Nancy Grace. I would pay good money for Nancy Grace and Kim Kardashin to have a duel with battle axes in a pitch black basement.

I understand my British friends interest in the royal family but to me they are the worlds largest welfare recipient.

[Jazzman]

I think the NBA has much better role models then the NFL, but my argument isn't against the character of the players, just the quality of play. Basketball is a game of fundamentals. Once you start allowing players to take 3 steps, ignoring palming the ball, and forcing fast play with a 24 second clock and no defense, you lose the essence of what makes basketball great. Until 10 years ago, the NBA did not allow zone defense. Are you kidding me? And now they have stupid rules like illegal defense, which pretty much penalizes good help side defense. Full court press? Nope. Trapping? Nope. My issue with the NBA is that instead of making it about athletic freaks who are beyond talented playing basketball, they make it about ally-oops, dunks, and highlight reels. Offensive is king and defense is penalized. To each their own, but I wouldn't pay a dime to see an NBA game, and I would pay $1k a seat to the NCAA championship game... even if Michigan is in it

I don't agree with them banning zone defense (I don't agree with banning a lot of stuff in general, I say give teams a lot of latitude to figure out what works and what doesn't). But keep in mind that man-to-man is a much harder type of defense to play. It requires more athleticism, and thus, a higher caliber of athlete to make it work. Hand checks should never have been banned, either. So to some extent, I understand your argument, but again fundamental teams do exist in the NBA. A lot of NBA fans don't like the Spurs, but they definitely play fundamental ball. OKC does too, although they are more run-and-gun than San Antonio.

Same thing with the Utah Jazz during the Stockton-Malone days. Those guys came within just two points of taking down the almighty 1990s Chicago Bulls, by playing fundamental ball.

I think fundamental ball exists to an extent within the NBA, but I do agree that it's much more prevalent and overarching in the college game.

I don't hate the college game, actually there's a lot to like about it, but I can't watch it all season long the way that I do with the NBA. I think a big part of it is also the sheer number of teams (as opposed to the way the game is played). Now I like to hear a good Cinderella story as much as anyone (i.e. Butler, George Mason, etc), but there are so many different colleges and teams it gets difficult to keep up sometimes. It's a lot easier for me to fully follow and understand an NBA season than an NCAA season.

I don't understand peoples fascination with the British royals or celebrities in general . They only thing worse are those that are famous for being famous and Nancy Grace. I would pay good money for Nancy Grace and Kim Kardashin to have a duel with battle axes in a pitch black basement.

I understand my British friends interest in the royal family but to me they are the worlds largest welfare recipient.

This is a good one. I've always felt the same way. We're Americans, why should we care about European royalty?

[ofos]

This is a good one. I've always felt the same way. We're Americans, why should we care about European royalty?

Because, despite the myth of America Land of Opportunity where hard work and perseverance pay off, we'd rather get rich the old fashioned way by inheriting it.

[Hink]

NBA players are extraordinary athletes, capable of extraordinary things. It really is the only professional sport where you hear this argument, and I don't understand why.

Because they aren't the best at what they do. In the NFL they are the best athletes. They are the best because they are the biggest, fastest, etc. If you put a high school kid in the NFL he would get killed.

In the NBA they are just as good (yes it goes up and down though) as some high school or NCAA players. You can jump from sophomore year in high school and play in the NBA (LeBron easily could have). The point is that the skill level does not improve with the higher you go. The talent probably does, but the skill level doesn't. You have the milk, but are missing the cookies. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this since you are wrong and won't accept it