To Co-op, or to keep debt low?

[Vancity]

Okay here is my situation.
Been working on my undergrad for 5 years, currently in 3rd year courses. Why 5 years you ask? Well, I work between 30 and 40 hours per week, all year round (as in, during school). Why? my city is expensive, I have a very flexible job that pays quite well and doesn't drive me nuts, and... recently I have begun to make enough money to pay for school, and cover the costs of living, meaning, I do not have to add any more debt onto the $10K plus in student loans I've already incurred.
Okay, so far so good. Its a pain in the ass working full time and taking 9 to 12 credits per semester.. but you gotta do what you gotta do right?

Alright, so here is the dilemma.

I have been presented with the opportunity to join a co-op program. I don't know if Americans use the term "co-op" but it describes what is essentially a string of internships you do through your university, which works with you to help place you with an employer, and gives you credits for the co-op (you ofcourse pay to partake ) .. in return for interning you get paid industry standard wages, and ofcourse, get valuable job experience. At my school, you are expected to do 4 terms of work (though there is no penalization if you opt out after 1 term, the faculty actively discourage it) interspursed through your degree, in the pattern of "school term, work term, school term, work term" and so on. Each time you are likely to have a different job, which is "higher" on the scale of responsibility, pay etc, as you gain more experience. Co-op credits do not count towards your overall degree progress credits, however. So, 4 extra semesters are tacked onto your undergrad degree (which I've been chipping away at for 5 years already)

Sounds great!.....
But what about my job that I use to stay afloat and keep debt and financial stress at bay? Right, can't take 4 months off at a time on and off for 2 years..

Furthermore, co-op (if I did do the 4 terms... I likely wouldn't... but if I did...) would add another year to my degree (older folks keep saying "whats a year! Its nothing!" but I can't help but think graduating as old as I will will be a bad thing...)
Additionally, I am interested in doing a masters after my BA (especially if I can't get a job afterward) meaning getting out of school is going to take even longer.

All these draw backs taken into account, .. likely having to take on student debt in my academic semesters in which I would not be working, additional time on my degree, leaving the comfort of my flexible, well-paid, easy-peasy job....

I still can't help but consider the program. There are some amazing job opportunities available, connections to be made, and experience to be had.

Is it more beneficial to graduate with somewhere between 1 and 4 different jobs over the course of 4 to 12 months, and possibly have a better shot at a job with a BA which on its own becomes less and less relevant to employment by the day...
Or is it more beneficial to graduate with a low debt load, whilst keeping a job which does very little for my professional goals in the future?

I suppose it comes down to my being scared, and crushed by the thought of applying for loans again, several more times, when I so recently devised this master plan to pay for uni all on my own. Haha.

And I know none of you can give me a definitive answer, because you're not me and you're not here.

But, does anyone have an opinion? Advice for someone who is scared to break out of a comfortable routine and dive into something entirely foreign and terrifying? Take the debt, get experience ... avoid the debt, skip experience..? What to do?

[dvdneal]

Normally I'd say get the experience, especially if it has a chance at landing a job, but I'm coming from a US job market and I don't know what's going on in Canada. Then again, I'm also more practical, maybe because I have a huge student loan. I'd say keep doing what you're doing to pay the bills and get through your masters provided you expect a decent job market once you get it. It's nice to get out of college without debt. It also gives you more mobility to find the next job.

[Victor]

From my own personal experience, I don't think I would have been accepted to my graduate planning school had I not done co-op. For me, the extra year was worth it to 1) acquire more knowledge; 2) gain relevant skills; 3) make important connections (e.g. one of my co-op supervisors was a referee for my grad school application).

[Tide]

Wow!

Closest I have come to that decision was working part time and doing grad school full time or working full time and going to grad school part time. I will tell you this, unless you are working in your field already you would be better off in the long run getting your experience clock running since you have eluded to the fact that you are already older than some in your program. I cannot tell you how much experience matters once you get past the first few years out of school. Degree is still important but if you have 7 vs. 5 years of experience that means more to a middle level job application than the fact that you got your degree a year earlier or not.

I say get the experience, but you have to live and eat right? I will tell you, I accrued about 40k in debt for undergrad and gradschool. Paying it off slowly but the payments have ranged from 90-240 a month for 10 years - just to give you an idea if you need to think about that in the long term and taking on another 10k in debt shouldn't really hurt you in the long term.

I'd like to talk over the phone or skype to you since this is a way deeper subject than can be explained in just a few paragraphs.

Best of luck.

[Vancity]

Thanks for the response folks.
It is definitely a tough decision, people always say "take on as little debt as you can manage" and "get as much experience as you can" .. those things are supposed to go hand-in-hand, but for some reason it isn't working out for me as such.

I say get the experience, but you have to live and eat right? I will tell you, I accrued about 40k in debt for undergrad and gradschool. Paying it off slowly but the payments have ranged from 90-240 a month for 10 years - just to give you an idea if you need to think about that in the long term and taking on another 10k in debt shouldn't really hurt you in the long term.

Tide, your whole post is very helpful to consider. I should concede that I am not that much older than I should be (right now I'm running about 2 years behind the youngest), I maybe exaggerate it because I am afraid I will be much older than I should be at the end of it all (seeing as everything is taking me a little longer, I fall behind faster/more every year I stay, if that makes sense .)
Anyway, what I am most surprised by in your response is that your monthly amounts for payment are only 90-240! Mine are $220 total on my 10K or so, when I am not in school full time (sometimes I go part-time) ... That is part of the reason I am so afraid to take on more, I figured if I push it any farther, I won't be able to afford to do a proper job search after school.
Maybe the US repayment system is different, my payments seem very high in comparison
Perhaps I should go see someone with financial knowledge before making my decision.

[dvdneal]

Maybe the US repayment system is different, my payments seem very high in comparison
Perhaps I should go see someone with financial knowledge before making my decision.

The US system is designed to have you pay out a federal loan within ten years much like any normal loan, but you can get special payment plans based on income. Mine lets me pay interest only. I can also take advantage of a public service program where I get my loan forgiven if I make 10 years of payments while working for a public agency.

[Tide]

I locked in a low 3.5% rate years ago and got my 10 years extended during unemployment

[Ev14]

Here's the thing about planning: it's not a super high paying profession and you have to be willing to move for jobs. Moving in itself is big cost, even if its just within the same metropolitan area.

The positive you have when you graduate is you'll have real job experience. That said, planning jobs are still incredibly scarce across the country AND you'll be competing with people with master's degrees. Would you be willing to move ANYWHERE after graduating to secure your first decent paying job? Say rural Alberta?

Even if you have the bachelor's degree, employers will still want something else to differentiate yourself. Be it a master's or another type of post-grad diploma. You know the value of the bachelor's is almost worthless on its own today sadly... Also, it is not uncommon to get your start a bit later in life for planning, most of my master's degree classmates were over the age of 26. I wouldn't have been able to do everything I've accomplished without complete financial stability.

[Vancity]

Ev14, thanks for your reply.

I think you and I have talked about the fact that, from where I stand now, I am not really willing to move more than a few hours away from my city. That may change when I am on the verge of homeless and starving, but for now, I want to stay relatively close. I don't like to advertise that publicly on the forum because I know how bad that is .
But here's the thing, I'm also not dead set on "planner" as a job title. I am perfectly happy just to work in the field of geography, generally.. My main goal in getting an education is not clear, I only know its something I am supposed to do, and I've just been doing my best to follow my interests (urban geography).. One of the only things I know for certain is that I want my life to play out here in Vancouver, tall order, I know. Choosing planning as a route maybe is not the smartest, but I shoot for "planner" as my goal because it is one of the few blatantly obvious routes urban geography can go (Just as someone interested in educating may aim to be a "teacher", not knowing of all of the other niches the field of education has to offer.), and so seems like a good goal to aim for while on my search for an enjoyable career. If my aim for a planning position leads me into one, wonderful, if it does not.. well I think I will be happy so long as my degree, (or degrees.. we'll see..) and thus, interests are put to use. It is hard to know of all the avenues (if there are any? ) I can take without dipping into the field and meeting people at some point.

Victor mentioned too, that he'd not have been able to get into his Master's program without work experience. That's something I worry about as well. There's only one Masters program out this way for planning... so I assume his program is the one I'm looking towards doing....

Haha, can you tell that I want people to convince me to quit my job and validate co-op

[terraplnr]

Hi Vancity, a couple of questions... when you are doing the co-op "working" semesters, would the internship be a full-time job? Also, would your current employer let you go down to part-time? I agree with the others that experience is very important. But I guess I'm wondering if you can hold on to your current job in some capacity, to bring in extra money, since they apparently like you and pay you well!

[Vancity]

Hi Vancity, a couple of questions... when you are doing the co-op "working" semesters, would the internship be a full-time job? Also, would your current employer let you go down to part-time? I agree with the others that experience is very important. But I guess I'm wondering if you can hold on to your current job in some capacity, to bring in extra money, since they apparently like you and pay you well!

Yes, the internship semesters would be full-time work.
And I believe I would be able to go down to weekends-only at my current employer (given that my internships are Monday-Friday - that is something I don't know but am assuming, and that my internships are in this city [I will be avoiding applying to places outside of the region, I think]), since weekends are what they hired me for in the first place, and my job just sort of evolved slowly into a full time position over the last couple years, largely by accident. I have spoken to the part-time girl in my department and she said she would take my full-time hours for my first working semester (would be this upcoming summer), and I could have my full time work back for the fall academic semester after that..
but on my second working semester I'd likely have to permanently switch to weekends at my job.

So, as long as I get Monday-Friday internships in the area (I'm told 75% of the available jobs are in the region), I don't see a reason why I couldn't continue in my current job part-time.

[Ev14]

Ev14, thanks for your reply.

I think you and I have talked about the fact that, from where I stand now, I am not really willing to move more than a few hours away from my city. That may change when I am on the verge of homeless and starving, but for now, I want to stay relatively close. I don't like to advertise that publicly on the forum because I know how bad that is .
But here's the thing, I'm also not dead set on "planner" as a job title. I am perfectly happy just to work in the field of geography, generally.. My main goal in getting an education is not clear, I only know its something I am supposed to do, and I've just been doing my best to follow my interests (urban geography).. One of the only things I know for certain is that I want my life to play out here in Vancouver, tall order, I know. Choosing planning as a route maybe is not the smartest, but I shoot for "planner" as my goal because it is one of the few blatantly obvious routes urban geography can go (Just as someone interested in educating may aim to be a "teacher", not knowing of all of the other niches the field of education has to offer.), and so seems like a good goal to aim for while on my search for an enjoyable career. If my aim for a planning position leads me into one, wonderful, if it does not.. well I think I will be happy so long as my degree, (or degrees.. we'll see..) and thus, interests are put to use. It is hard to know of all the avenues (if there are any? ) I can take without dipping into the field and meeting people at some point.

Victor mentioned too, that he'd not have been able to get into his Master's program without work experience. That's something I worry about as well. There's only one Masters program out this way for planning... so I assume his program is the one I'm looking towards doing....

Haha, can you tell that I want people to convince me to quit my job and validate co-op

I completely understand your point about following interests. Urban planning definitely has an advantage over any regular geography degree because urban planning gives you more applicable skills (I'd argue that urban planning school is still way too academic though). If you want to pursue the master's (from an accredited program) you'll almost have to leave Vancouver. Some of UBC's spots are for international students and otherwise it is extremely competitive. I know several BC'ers who were very smart AND has years of relevant experience but didn't get into UBC. They did get into other provinces however.
If you are driven and smart then I believe success can come. You just have to be fully aware that even if you do everything right (the degrees, top grades, getting experience), you may still find it very difficult to even get a call back when applying for jobs. A lot will still depend on timing and luck. This is a crappy reality compared to when our parents were young when degrees = instant job.