Government Shut down, do you care?

[hilldweller]

You are acting like an ass. The vast majority of the acreage in FL is in citrus, cattle, agriculture, and small towns. Your supposition is like saying all of New York State is NYC (ask Tasman how that's working for him).

I have no idea why everyone defines FL by Miami and Orlando (much as I love Orlando).

The vast acreage in FL, where a very small fraction of the state population lives, is still southern. Is this your point?

[Duke Of Dystopia]

I think it is interesting to see what the federal government calls essential and non-essential. I also don't understand why outdoor monuments are being closed.... Like the WWII monument. Something makes me think that some of the closures are political.

Yup, skip right to the conspiracy theory. Sheesh....

...............................

I think these shutdowns have meaning and they are also frustrating. The frustrating part, is that the American public can never be bothered to learn anything about what is going on in their lives. Local to global, only about 30% to 40% seem to know and make decisions about what is happening. There are more people in the country that lean democratic. Easily 60%, but they don't bother to stay engaged and more importantly vote. This opens the door for the minority of people (40%) to insert their influence due inaction of the other side. That is how we end up with 55% of people voting in presidential elections. 35% in midterm elections. 20% or LESS of voters showing up in other odd elections.

It gives rise to the myth that our country is center right. The "public" continuously stating their apathy, says that they don't care if they are harmed by their politicians that represent them. It opens the door to the fact the American public is willfully ignorant, and racist, when they gladly state they dislike Obamacare but they like the ACA. That willful arrogance is what sways them when a smooth talker like senator Cruz vomits up a whole bunch of crap that sound good on the surface, but would actually show how destructive his policies would be if they were capable of anything but simple thought.

This willful arrogance of the populace means that the GOP can suggest a Conference Committee with 15 minutes left before the government shuts down and make it seem like a legitimate offer. The GOP can insist the DEM's arent compromising even though they want more money than called for in their budget, but went with the Ryan budget to keep the government open.

I don't blame the politicians. I blame an intractable populace of willful ignorance. This populace is not the Gen Y or Millennials, though young people are not to be left out. Its older people from Gen X and up. Old white people should feel shame. Baby boomers should know better. Every last boomer knows somebody who is disabled, or had preconditions, and that all they need is some medical help to be productive members of society. Yet people are swayed to harm their fellow countrymen because a bunch of reactionary racists try to scare the crap out of them.

Somebody was hacking the south and Texas and some great lakes states. I do not know what happened to WI in the last few years. I think we will come to our senses in 2014. I am not sure about the south. Texas is turning blue in 2016. Several southern states are set to turn blue.

I blame the american people for letting the GOP start to rig the vote like other 3rd world countries. This is a shout out to YOU North Carolina! Where your election commissioners are challenging weather students even have the right to vote at school. For creating voting districts that provide 10,000 people to 4 machines, with no bus stop and 8 parking spots. Apathy makes this possible.

Apathy of the voter, also denies our politicians of a clear view of what they need to do, whats possible, and what fights to pick. The rats at the capital might be better animals if we weren't being collectively involved as rats ourselves.

[Vancity]

So, I don't know much about this stuff... I don't watch or read the news and I'm pretty much just buried in my own life right now. I learned about this event on a clip of Conan O'brien... So yeah. Not much context. But what I'm
getting here is....
The republicans want to shoot down Obamacare on the premises of next years budget needing work.

Alright.
My question is.
Why would ANY ONE in America oppose cheaper health care?
No idea how Obamacare works but it seems logical that the states ought to do something about the crazy health care system.

[rcgplanner]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/fa...n-parties.html

It's very hard for me to feel sorry for these people when I read a story like this, but hey I'm not a union member either, like over 60% of federal employees.

I fail to see what is so offensive about this story. God forbid these people are trying to bring a little levity to an unpleasant situation. Going out for a few drinks or having co-workers over isn't going to break them financially, but losing 2 weeks of pay very well might.

I think it is interesting to see what the federal government calls essential and non-essential. I also don't understand why outdoor monuments are being closed.... Like the WWII monument. Something makes me think that some of the closures are political.

Or... they are following similar procedures as 1995 when these monuments were also closed during the shutdown. The Antideficiency Act of 1870 is why certain things are open and others are closed. The only exceptions to the Act are emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. This is why Air Traffic Control and National Park Police are still working. It is not some insidious plan to punish people politically. I find it repulsive that the RNC chairman is turning this into a political photo-op standing in front of the World War II memorial with a check to reopen the monument, while new VA benefit applications are delayed because of this shutdown. The tone-deafness of Reince Preibus about the real needs of veteran's is insulting.

[luckless pedestrian]

I know for a fact that for safety, protection and liability that if no rangers or other personnel are present at a federal park/facility/forest, then it closes 0 the close of these locations was not political

What's different about the federal employee shutdown and a personal layoff is massive - the close of the national parks has a large economic impact to the gateway communities - one person losing their job is catastrophic for the household for certain, and I have been there, but not at the level we have here

people who have government contracts, support services, it's all there and affected

[Coragus]

So, I wasn't going to chime in, but I just got be from a meeting. The meeting didn't happen because it was at the Conservation District office. Knowing that they are funded by my county and through a special assesment, I was shocked to see that the doors were locked and the sign on the door. Turns out that they are closed because the Department of Agriculture is non-essential after all.

[WSU MUP Student]

This is helping my grant writing. Not.

www.census.gov

i don't understand this. the data is already there. the servers are already there. what does not having staff have to do with the website shutting down? heck, I have a livejournal I made when I was 15 that is still online after 16 years of not being touched.

I was wondering the same thing. The data is already online and the government is still incurring a cost with the servers running the site, telling everyone the Census Bureau is closed, although I guess the cost is lower than if the site was up and running (more traffic = more costs in terms of bandwith etc.)

To make it even more confounding, the Census and BEA sites are down, yet the BLS site is up. All three are parts of the Department of Commerce.

I use the BLS site constantly but hate their databases. They make AFF look awesome.

For those that really need data from AFF now, you can try the Wayback Machine or the Missouri Census Data Center which has most of the 2010 Decennial Census and past few years of ACS data for most geography levels, nation-wide. CPS data is still available through ipums.org.

[imaplanner]

I know for a fact that for safety, protection and liability that if no rangers or other personnel are present at a federal park/facility/forest, then it closes 0 the close of these locations was not political

These people know this. But they are more interested in finding political points to use to rile up the no-nothings. I also refuse to believe that mskis doesn't understand this. That is the frustrating thing about this.

[Whose Yur Planner]

The NOAA site is down as well. Since there is a hurricane brewing the Gulf, having it up would be nice. It's like playing Russian Roulette with the gun point at someone else.

[dw914er]

These people know this. But they are more interested in finding political points to use to rile up the no-nothings. I also refuse to believe that mskis doesn't understand this. That is the frustrating thing about this.

But they don't, which is scary. I have several tea-party or conservative facebook friends (either from high school, college, or Porsche people I know from large events) posting the same thing. They place the blame squarely on Obama for not budging on the ACA (even though it is not really related to the budget nor a reasonable request), or that closing monuments is for political posturing and simply to punish our vets. I feel like people should recognize that the tactics from the relative extreme minority is causing this mess, but I think once they lose their fight, those die hard constituents will want someone even more focused on the party's principle. It's hard to reason on a legitimate compromise if someone has the "government can do no right" mentality.

[rcgplanner]

The NOAA site is down as well. Since there is a hurricane brewing the Gulf, having it up would be nice. It's like playing Russian Roulette with the gun point at someone else.

NOAA.gov is down but the NHC website and NWS are both running becasue it is considered a matter of health and safety.

NHC: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov

NWS: http://www.weather.gov

Stay safe Whose, it is looking like an Alabama/Florida landfall sometime Saturday.

[imaplanner]

But they don't, which is scary. I have several tea-party or conservative facebook friends (either from high school, college, or Porsche people I know from large events) posting the same thing. They place the blame squarely on Obama for not budging on the ACA (even though it is not really related to the budget nor a reasonable request), or that closing monuments is for political posturing and simply to punish our vets. I feel like people should recognize that the tactics from the relative extreme minority is causing this mess, but I think once they lose their fight, those die hard constituents will want someone even more focused on the party's principle. It's hard to reason on a legitimate compromise if someone has the "government can do no right" mentality.

I am of the opinion that there is a difference between the true no-nothings and the ones who cater to them or knowingly play the game. For instance, I continue to refuse to believe that someone who has working experience in the planning field does not understand liability and operational basics of public lands. Really, every single place I have ever worked as a planner has required me to deal with these issues on at least a tangential basis. I just can't fathom how someone can profess to work as a planner and not have some level of understanding of these things.

[dw914er]

I am of the opinion that there is a difference between the true no-nothings and the ones who cater to them or knowingly play the game. For instance, I continue to refuse to believe that someone who has working experience in the planning field does not understand liability and operational basics of public lands. Really, every single place I have ever worked as a planner has required me to deal with these issues on at least a tangential basis. I just can't fathom how someone can profess to work as a planner and not have some level of understanding of these things.

Cognitive biases usually works in opposition to that understanding though.

[hilldweller]

The NOAA site is down as well. Since there is a hurricane brewing the Gulf, having it up would be nice. It's like playing Russian Roulette with the gun point at someone else.

Why are these websites shutting down, do they really cost anything to keep operational? Shame on the federal employee unions or whoever made to call to shut websites down out of spite.

[Whose Yur Planner]

NOAA.gov is down but the NHC website and NWS are both running becasue it is considered a matter of health and safety.

NHC: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov

NWS: http://www.weather.gov

Stay safe Whose, it is looking like an Alabama/Florida landfall sometime Saturday.

Thanks-looks like it may head to RJ land.

[Tide]

What's everyone's over/under on when this gets resolved. My armchair political science opinion says somewhere over the weekend with full opening Monday. I don't know what the resolution will be.

On a personal note this slowdown/slimdown/shutdown/shutthe####up whatever it's being called is really messing with my work - since we have many military clients I cannot talk to any of them if they are civilians they have been furloughed indefinitely.

[NHPlanner]

Why are these websites shutting down, do they really cost anything to keep operational? Shame on the federal employee unions or whoever made to call to shut websites down out of spite.

The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that with no employees working to maintain the websites, the risks of security breaches results in the shutdown of those sites. Which ones get shut down is directly related to which employees were furloughed. Really, spite has nothing to do with it.

[Seana]

. . ...maybe I'm just angry because people "ignore" me on Cyburbia. btrage You're not the only one who is "ingnored" on Cyburbia. (See below.) Raf has a poiint, though: Manly white middle-agers don't get their pain felt. nrschmid: How do you fee about: - Enemies of the U.S. being aware of the 70% cuts in army intelligence services? (Ted Cruz is very concerned about this.) - The shutdown possibly further imperiling the credit rating of the U.S.? - An extended government shutdown probably leading to U.S and global economic decline? ... and that economic decline would, among other things, lead to stock market declines; which would translate to declines in 401K and other savings & retirement plans? - Wall Street execs currently making big bucks on this shutdown via hedge funds, options trading, etc.? These questions are not meant to be confrontational; I really am interested in your answers.

[hilldweller]

The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that with no employees working to maintain the websites, the risks of security breaches results in the shutdown of those sites. Which ones get shut down is directly related to which employees were furloughed. Really, spite has nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure I buy that explanation. I think it is to make a political point and spiteful in nature, but maybe there are security concerns.

[otterpop]

I heard on the news that as a result of the federal government shutdown, the WIC program is no longer funded.

Hey, great job there, Congress. Take fruit, vegetables and milk from needy children.

If this goes on much longer, I think the people need to get together, buy up 535 rails from Home Depot, 535 feather pillows from Walmart and enough tar to make the feathers stick. Then the taxpayers should sit by the steps of the Capitol warming up the tar. Have someone bring in a message that the Congress has two hours to do their elected jobs and fund the government, or else we're coming in and dragging every member of Congress out for a tar and feathering and a quick ride out of town on a rail.

Or, taking a less violent tack, maybe we should just all send an email or letter to our respective representatives and senators advising them they should begin looking into other employment options because this will be their last term of office.

Or, maybe the Constitution should specify that Representatives have not only be at least 25 years old, they also have to act like they are at least 25 years old, and the same goes for the Senators, be and act at least 30.

[btrage]

I'm starting to get the feeling that this government shutdown is the final chapter in a decade long (2003 - present) political stand-off.

[Tide]

Congress has two hours to do their elected jobs and fund the government, or else we're coming in and dragging every member of Congress out for a tar and feathering and a quick ride out of town on a rail. .

You had me till then - but funding Government at this point, with our current fiscal challenges still not over, would require defunding other things - now what do you propose we cut?

[OfficialPlanner]

[OT]btrage
You're not the only one who is "ingnored" on Cyburbia. (See below.)

Seana, this made me laugh. I thought I was the red-headed step child around here. It's strangely comforting know that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

On a unrelated topic, what the hell is going on in DC. Someone tried to ram the gates of the White House??

[Rygor]

I needed something off the Census website today. No dice.

Thanks TeaHadis.

Disaster Capitalism is what is happening.

Very interesting. I shall have to read that book.

On another note, I highly recommend that next time elections roll around, re-elect NO ONE. If enough people jump on that bandwagon, maybe that will start to get their attention.

[imaplanner]

I'm starting to get the feeling that this government shutdown is the final chapter in a decade long (2003 - present) political stand-off.

Can you explain more clearly what you mean by this? I'm not really following.