Urban planning community

Poll results: Should the atheist eagle scout have to declare a belief in a "higher power"?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    3 11.54%
  • No

    20 76.92%
  • Other

    3 11.54%
Closed thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 44 of 44

Thread: Atheist Scout given a week to declare belief

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935

    Re: bTurk: You filthy Whore!

    Now, now, you know I'm not filthy!

  2. #27
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 1999
    Location
    400 miles from Orlando
    Posts
    13,740
    Luckily my son is still a Cub Scout and so the gay issue is not a topic he and his Scouting friends would even be aware of. When he is a Boy Scout he will undoubtedly hear of the policy (if it still stands) and can make his own decision about whether or not to continue in Scouting. In most respects, I don't think what is happening with the young man under discussion is different from having membership in a church or other organization and discovering your values don't mesh. You just leave. But in his case, he has become, through a lot of dedicated, hard work, an Eagle Scout. If I remember correctly, only 1/2 of one percent of scouts make it to Eagle. I would hope the BSA would let the award stand.
    As for his declaration about being atheist, he is still a teenager and at that age, will probably say a lot of things he regrets later on.

  3. #28
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    I know most troops would take the kid aside and explain that it is his decision and as a person they will support him. But if he wants to go down that route he is responsible for the consequences.

    If the kid doesn't make a big deal the troop won't either. There are plenty of Gay and Athiest in the Scouts as we speek. It is the youth version of Don't ask - Don't tell.

    I'm sorry your brother had it rough. I think everyone but the rich, and pretty had it rough in high school. I sure as hell didn't enjoy it. I was a pimple faced science geek. That was a joy.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Delmarva
    Posts
    123
    I have to wade in on this one and ask what is the retarded logic that keeps these things keep coming up?

    If the Scouts stand for anything itís patriotic virtues, service to the community and intellectual curiosity. Should an intelligent 19 year old know when heís being buffaloed? Heís already proven by his achievements that the makes the grade on the significant criteria and obviously knows a thing about rights and freedom. Why should he be forced to choose from a meaningless menu of deities?

    We all know they donít want to hear that you worship some atavistic gods or trees or planets, but they wonít explicitly say that. I donít remember having to declare a religion (at that time it might have been Rastafarian) and I donít think Baden Powel (founding father of Scouting) would force a choice. How long will it be before you have to show your crucifix to use the pool at the YMCA?

    Itís as bad as the flat earth society Ö er, intelligent design advocates pushing for schools to teach alternative creation theories. They donít want their kids to hear that the earth was born on a turtleís back that carries it through the universe, they want Genesis. Picking fights like this seems to me to be an un Christian thing to do.

  5. #30
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    bTurk,
    I think he called you a RETARD.

  6. #31

    BSA = old school

    El Guapo you are coming across as homophobic. Why is that? Gays are born gay and are well aware of it when they reach boy scout age- and especially eagle scout age. The BSA is a throwback to the 50's, back when they wouldn't let blacks in. BSA does have goodness, but it failed to evolve with the times. Their dwindling membership illustrates the fact that modern boys and parents are turned off by the BSA. Guys like you are a dying breed.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    Re: BSA = old school

    Originally posted by mugbub1
    El Guapo you are coming across as homophobic. Why is that? Gays are born gay and are well aware of it when they reach boy scout age- and especially eagle scout age. The BSA is a throwback to the 50's, back when they wouldn't let blacks in. BSA does have goodness, but it failed to evolve with the times. Their dwindling membership illustrates the fact that modern boys and parents are turned off by the BSA. Guys like you are a dying breed.
    El Guapo you are coming across as homophobic. Why is that? Gays are born gay and are well aware of it when they reach boy scout age- and especially eagle scout age.

    ho∑mo∑pho∑bi∑a Pronunciation Key (hm-fb-) n.
    Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
    Behavior based on such a feeling.

    Not a fear or contempt but a recognition of the differences and a rejection of queer politics. Take the political agenda out of it and I'm far more accepting.

    The BSA is a throwback to the 50's, back when they wouldn't let blacks in.
    Neither would the democratic party (1860) or the US Army(1940). That is a red hearing. It has nothing to do with Today's Scouts.

    BSA does have goodness, but it failed to evolve with the times. Their dwindling membership illustrates the fact that modern boys and parents are turned off by the BSA. Guys like you are a dying breed.

    True - We are old fasioned in this sense and maybe some have left scouting because of that failure to keep up with the times. However, I believe in what I believe in and I hope I presented a fair argument for my beliefs. I am content to stand alone.

    I'm glad we had this chat.

  8. #33
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935
    Originally posted by El Guapo
    bTurk,
    I think he called you a RETARD.
    No - it was KMateja he called a retard. She started the thread.

  9. #34
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    Originally posted by bturk


    No - it was KMateja he called a retard. She started the thread.
    No, I'm sure it was you

  10. #35
    Cyburbian nerudite's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    5,502
    I've been reading this thread and haven't really commented thus far, mostly because I really don't know anything about scouting... whether it receives public funds, etc. But then, I decided that it really doesn't matter that much in my own mind, so I'm throwing in my .02 dollars.

    I guess what I've come down to (similar to ZoningGoddess I guess) is if the boy scouts were founded on a set of beliefs, and it is well known to all the participants, then it is up to the participants to determine whether they want to be involved with the organization.

    I think that basic human rights, such as education, all people should have equal access to; however, outside of school hours, I really don't feel the need to restrict public buildings to groups that are totally inclusive of all individuals. I think freedom of the individual, although important, doesn't necessarily supersede the freedom of several individuals to participate in something they personally believe in. My tax dollars (yes, I still pay U.S. taxes.. and Canadian ) go to a lot of things that I personally don't support. I think the Eagle Scout has the opportunity to leave the organization if he wishes.

    Do I think it's sad that he has to make this choice? Yeah, I do. But I think forcing several people to change their choices would be equally bad IMO. Part of diversity means people being able to practice their beliefs separately. If everyone was required to let anyone into every organization against their beliefs we would all be the same cookie cutter people.

    As always, I have enjoyed reading through this highly intelligent thread. With respect,

    -- Your friendly nieghbo(u)rhood agnostic (and a liberal to boot)

  11. #36
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    South Milwaukee
    Posts
    8,935

    OK you're right

    Originally posted by El Guapo


    No, I'm sure it was you
    After all, when my asian girlfriend gave birth to a deformed baby, we named him -













    (wait for it)

















    Sum Ting Wong

  12. #37
    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,662
    Brian, I'm going to have to take you out for the crem of sum yung gai and sushi in Denver for that-
    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

  13. #38

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    I think Nerudite summed it up pretty well.

    I think Mugwub is a little oversensitive. Nobody else was being offensive. (A little catty humor, sometimes, but. . .)

  14. #39
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
    Registered
    Sep 2001
    Location
    skating on thin ice
    Posts
    6,958
    If you want confusing about religion, the state and laws, you should see the debate going on now about proposed amendments to hate legislation. There is a group that fears the Bible and Sunday schools will be classified as deseminating hate and therefore be open to prosecution if sexual preference is entrenched in the Constitution and other legislation.
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  15. #40
    Cyburbian El Feo's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Outside, looking in.
    Posts
    674

    Hey, I think I may need to apologize to PlannerGirl!

    I reread my first post on this, and realize that it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, personally. Not what I meant to do, and if you felt like I was, I'm genuinely sorry! Your post just happened to be the one that got me to thinking the most about the issue...
    "The fanatical Muslims despise America because it's all lapdancing and gay porn; the secular Europeans despise America because it's all born-again Christians hung up on abortion; the anti-Semites despise America because it's controlled by Jews. Too Jewish, too Christian, too Godless, America is also too isolationist, except when it's too imperialist." -- Mark Steyn

  16. #41
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 1996
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    14,507
    Blog entries
    3
    Originally posted by donk
    There is a group that fears the Bible and Sunday schools will be classified as deseminating hate and therefore be open to prosecution if sexual preference is entrenched in the Constitution and other legislation.
    I don't think there is a government agency that can classify a particular organization as "hatred disseminating." Even if there was, would they say a Christian congregation was a "hate organization" because of how some fundies interpret one line in the book of Paul?

    That's not to say that some churches are preaching hate. Consider fundamentalist and evangelical congregations that seem preoccupied with that one line in Paul. Consider the Nation of Islam.

    I know groups like Focus on the Family fear laws that suppress discrimination against gays, because they think that it means they'll have to hire them. Sure ... as if any self-respecting gay male or lesbian would want to work in such an environment. Employers can't discriminate based on religion, but I doubt there's many ... really, any Muslims working at FOTF.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  17. #42
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    4,604
    Hey dont worry abou it El Feo, if I made ya think then thats good even if outcomes are not always what one would want.

    I dont like it when folks accept a "party line" etc with out truly thinking about what they say they belive.

    PG
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  18. #43

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Well, Dan, people do have an amazing ability to "divide" themselves. I've read too many stories about gays working as close political assistants for hate-spewing politicians.

    Heck, are high taxes such an issue that a gay could vote republican? Never understood that concept.

    Isn't it amazing how many fundamentalist nuts have gay kids?

  19. #44
          Downtown's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Under a pile of back issue Plannings
    Posts
    3,174
    Originally posted by BKM

    Heck, are high taxes such an issue that a gay could vote republican? Never understood that concept.

    Isn't it amazing how many fundamentalist nuts have gay kids?
    OT: my brother's ex-boyfriend "Claude" was the proverbial son of a preacher's man, and was disowned by his family for 10 years. They finally came to a truce and "Claude" was let back in the family after he "got religion" and he's now an extremely right wing Christian Conservative who just happens to be Fabulous. I don't understand it, either.

Closed thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

More at Cyburbia

  1. Girl Scout Cookies
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 16
    Last post: 23 Feb 2012, 1:27 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last post: 29 Mar 2009, 7:32 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last post: 03 Jul 2007, 7:45 PM
  4. Girl Scout Cookies
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 33
    Last post: 07 Mar 2006, 2:01 PM
  5. More Shocking Than The Scout Thread?
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 42
    Last post: 08 Nov 2002, 2:04 PM