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Thread: Article - Newly hired PD doesn't actually have a degree

  1. #1
    Cyburbian
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    Article - Newly hired PD doesn't actually have a degree

    Not sure what to say about this... they just passed a law allowing him to live outside the county too, unlike all the other department heads.

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/n...acebook.com%2F

    I forgot to put ARTICLE in the title, not sure how to edit it now though.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    HA!

    This is exactly the kind of thing our APA should be actively following up on. It LOOKS BAD for the rest of us schmucks that went to real schools and learned real things. Also, this guy knew what he was doing when he chose to go the easy route. What a tool. I wonder who hired "Pace and Associates?"

    The County Senior Planner is AICP!!! What would cause a jurisdiction to so totally abandon consideration of REAL planners with a real education? Also, why did they only get under 20 applications after three advertising efforts? Maybe it is money or a bad reputation? Again, all things the local APA should be getting actively involved with.....I think. Maybe show up at a Board meeting and educate them on the merits of hiring a real planner??
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

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    I was shocked when I saw this

    At least for Jefferson County. For Lewis County, it wouldn't surprise me, based on the history of the planning profession in the community, but for a county of 120,000 with a military base, I am shocked. I do realize that unlike in most states, County planners in NY have very little power, since land use and zoning decisions are made at the Town, City, or Village level, leaving the Planning department as an advisory or consultant role. Still, it cheapens the profession when local governments offer this kind of a position to people without an accredited degree. Wouldn't this be the first thing that would be checked when screening someone?

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    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
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    Speaking as a podunk county planner in Kansas, you can get good help. I'm paid well, I have AICP, an accreditted bachelors and masters from a state school and experience. Granted if you go to some of the more remote counties (yes they get worse than mine) - we're talking a population of about 10-20,000 (mine is 55k) you get planners who aren't planners. They wear a few hats like appraiser, emergency management, and more, but they're stil professional and usually have degrees from some accredditted state school. So yeah, you can get decent planners out in the county.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian
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    According to a previous article, the new PD was offered about $65k, which I think would be a 20% reduction from what the previous PD made. That could account for the small applicant pool.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Plus
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    BUMP / FOLLOW UP
    New Jefferson County Planner Steps Down Over Education
    http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/New...303330781.html

    "The key ingredient in all that is that the education had to be from an accredited college And that's where the problem surfaced," said Hagemann.
    Hagemann says coming from an accredited college is a minimum qualification for the job.
    Choice for Jefferson County planning director declines job over degree flap
    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/n...-flap-20150512

    was recently asked by the county to find proof of the institution’s accreditation and told that he wouldn’t be offered the job without it,
    Just small indicator to the value of having attended a PAB school.
    http://www.planningaccreditationboard.org/

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    I have said it before, but one of the best planners I have known did not have a college degree of any sort. On the other hand, I have known several planners with one or more degrees, and experience, who appear to know nothing about the profession.
    Anyone want to adopt a dog?

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    Cyburbian Plus
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    Jefferson County still seeking planning director

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/n...ector-20150817

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Habanero's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    I have said it before, but one of the best planners I have known did not have a college degree of any sort. On the other hand, I have known several planners with one or more degrees, and experience, who appear to know nothing about the profession.
    I agree, I think it's about desire and continuing education about the whys of planning and not just about the black and white of the code. That said, I would think a director would have at least one degree and years of experience.
    When Jesus said "love your enemies", he probably didn't mean kill them.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    I have said it before, but one of the best planners I have known did not have a college degree of any sort. On the other hand, I have known several planners with one or more degrees, and experience, who appear to know nothing about the profession.
    I knew of one director of a Department of Transportation for a city on the large side of medium (over 500k, less than 1 million), who had only a high school education. He started out at the ground level a few decades ago and worked up from there. He was well regarded at this city and I never heard of any evidence that he wasn't good at his job.

    I don't see any reason a Planning Director couldn't work their way up in the same fashion. Maybe all this flap about a degree is just jealousy among those of us who went into debt for our overpriced Master's Degrees that are now the basic entry-level credential for any planning job.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Well.....

    This is a simple matter of not meeting minimum requirements. He didn't. Period.
    I've known some outstanding "physical" planners that did not have a degree. They would routinely correct engineers of all types on engineering documents/plans/reports. They routinely saved the company tens of thousands of dollars during plan review....literally. They didn't give ONE SHIT about the public, customer convenience, public process within legal limitations or functionality of design to accommodate real human beings. Lucky for the public, none of these planners would ever be caught dead working for the man....even if they could get past the stigma of not having a formal degree.
    There is an advantage to having a card carrying (accredited) planner when it comes to serving the public.
    “The way of acquiescence leads to moral and spiritual suicide. The way of violence leads to bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. But, the way of non-violence leads to redemption and the creation of the beloved community.”
    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
    - See more at: http://www.thekingcenter.org/king-ph....r7W02j3S.dpuf

  12. #12
    Quote Originally posted by The One View post
    This is a simple matter of not meeting minimum requirements. He didn't. Period.
    I've known some outstanding "physical" planners that did not have a degree. They would routinely correct engineers of all types on engineering documents/plans/reports. They routinely saved the company tens of thousands of dollars during plan review....literally. They didn't give ONE SHIT about the public, customer convenience, public process within legal limitations or functionality of design to accommodate real human beings. Lucky for the public, none of these planners would ever be caught dead working for the man....even if they could get past the stigma of not having a formal degree.
    There is an advantage to having a card carrying (accredited) planner when it comes to serving the public.
    I agree with there is merit to having a PD with a planning or related field degree. The four little letters after your name does help. I worked my way up through the ranks and have been a PD for a while now. It takes both hands on knowledge as well as understanding of theory. It's both knowing the ideas behind new urbanism and knowing why it doesn't work in most circumstances.
    When did I go from Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi?

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