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Thread: conspiracy theories

  1. #1
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    conspiracy theories

    Did anyone else assume that the USA stopped issuing visas; especially since some folks never return to the authorities at the end of their stay.

    Looks like Kalamazoo will be welcoming more international students from the "affected region" soon. see attached essay

    The Mujahid and his Driver
    by Isa Daudpota

    Is USA being duped still? Maybe one of W's covert operations!
    Who knows what's real -

    http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1011-07.htm

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    I'm in Michigan. I've been to Kalamazoo many times. Nice place.

    I read the story, "The Mujahid and his Driver" from your posted link.

    So, what exactly is your point? What do you mean by "Is USA being duped still? Maybe one of W's covert operations! " From my reading of your post, your concerns were not clearly articulated.

    Are you afraid that Afghans may leave their country and attend Western Michigan University? How is it that "USA" is being duped? And what exactly do you mean by the term "USA"? Are you insinuating that all citizens of the United States of America are capable of being "duped"? And what do you mean by the prase "being duped still"? Does that mean you believe the citizens of "USA" are unable to critically assess current policy changes and their implications for our society?

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    Im not nuts really

    Thanks for your comments!

    But, Does it not concern you that fanatical students with militant islamic beliefs may be still arriving on our shores? It concerns me and it seems that the hijackers who arrived on student visas did dupe the authorities and betrayed the generosity of all Americans.

    As to CO's, maybe the CIA is there recruiting for spys on bin ladenin

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    No, I am not concerned. Our country has had open policies for years, and to extend the fanatical acts of about twenty people from September 11 to a whole society that is oppressed is, in my opinion, overly reactionary and quite prejudicial. The paranoia inherent in your posting is unproductive and contributes to an overall malaise that has consumed parts of our country since 9/11.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    oh those poor oppressed hijackers - Now that those twenty dudes are toast I guess our terrorist problem here is solved eh?

    And please note the WMU poster was in a protaliban community not an Afghan refugee camp.







    I know how to use a dagger - I was born in the Caucasus -- Alexander Pushkin

  6. #6
          Downtown's avatar
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    Jen,

    I have to say that I too read the article and don't understand what you are trying to get at. The article didn't say that the poster was posted in a Pro-Taliban enclave, and it is in Pakistan, who last time I checked CNN was still supporting the United States. Are we supposed to stop accepting visas from nations that support our efforts in the Middle East, just because there might be terrorists residing there?

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Originally posted by Jen
    oh those poor oppressed hijackers - Now that those twenty dudes are toast I guess our terrorist problem here is solved eh?
    Well now. I never said nor suggested anything remotely close to what you say here. Oppressed hijackers? Where did that come from? No one ever said the hijackers were being oppressed. I did say "a whole society that is oppressed," alluding to the oppression of the Afghan people coming from the Taliban rulers. I would never assume the acts of twenty or so fanatical individuals represent a larger society. To do so would be idiotic.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    To KMateja

    In last Fridays Washington Post it was reported that the director of Immigration and naturalization service admitted that eleven of the hijackers were here on valid visas - two of them were on student visas.

    Now they weren't from Pakistan and I do see your point about playing nice with Pakistan since they are assisting our efforts. And its known that Islamabad is not a hotbed of insurgency - but nonetheless the anti american sentiment is growing in Islamic countries and lest we forget, the jihad movement crosses borders too.

    Consider this: a fresh faced student (aka warrior in training)with no rap sheet or admitted ties to any terrorist group and says he is studying to be a cleric or whatever and would like to go to the USA for his(she's aren't doing this remember) education. Would he raise anyones suspicions at the consulars office? Well as long as he paid his filing fee and submitted his 2x3 picture taken against a light background, Probably not. Then the ambitious brainwashed student is in the USA under the auspices of some shadowy nonprofit organization - nice and cozy under our beautiful and spacious skies -

    Now Im not saying every visa applicant is someone to fear but
    the point being that the INS needs major work to patch the procedural holes the size of ground zero that let those slippery jackals into this country in the first place.

    That's all folks
    Last edited by Jen; 16 Oct 2001 at 8:47 AM.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    Would you like rice with that crock of beans?

    Originally posted by Beaner

    I would never assume the acts of twenty or so fanatical individuals represent a larger society. To do so would be idiotic.
    So what you're saying is that these individuals acted alone (without the assistance of people who are still in the USA) and that in fact the hijackers do not represent the larger "society" of militant islam?





  10. #10
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Re: Would you like rice with that crock of beans?

    Originally posted by Jen
    So what you're saying is that these individuals acted alone (without the assistance of people who are still in the USA) and that in fact the hijackers do not represent the larger "society" of militant islam?
    Do abortion clinic bombers represent fundamentalist born-again Christians or militant Catholics as a whole?
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Jen,

    Well. You are indeed paranoid. To get to the point, Osama Bin Laden is Egyptian. He has masterminded and executed a devastating attack on the United States of America. To use your logic, I would now have to assume that every Egyptian is an evil terrorist. But since I don't subscribe to your type of thinking, I think it's prudent to assume that most Egyptians are good people who just want to get on with their lives. They bear no resemblance to Osama, other than country of origin. Many of my classmates are Egyptian. They are great people, and when I talk to them, I make no connection to Osama or terrorism. How unfortunate that there are people out there who do.

  12. #12
    maudit anglais
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    Bin Laden is actually a Saudi, of Yemeni extraction from what I've heard...but your point is sound beaner.

  13. #13
          Downtown's avatar
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    To add to Dan's point, to what larger society to Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols belong?

    In the words of Cheri O'Teri, I think we all just need to "simmer down now".

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Tranplanner: Thanks for the clarification!

  15. #15
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    I dont care what nationality the 9-11terrorists are. The fact remains that these terrorist types share a common cause and they have expertly organized to wreak havoc around the globe.

    Also please dont imply I am racist. I am not! Unlike you I wouldn't be so shallow as to name out the ethnicities of my friends to prove it either
    Last edited by Jen; 17 Oct 2001 at 2:03 PM.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Originally posted by Jen
    Unlike you I wouldn't be so shallow as to name out the ethnicities of my friends to prove it either
    Jen, I don't understand you. For some reason, you seem REALLY hung up on the issue of ethnicity. I mean, why is it shallow to point out the ethnicities of my friends? Should one be ashamed of his or her ethnic origin? (You seem to imply that one shouldn't make a point of his or her ethnic origin, or to even acknowledge that other ethnicities do exist.) Perhaps you are reacting to the issue of how some people always have to point out the ethnicities of their friends, almost like they are name-dropping, trying to point our how cool they are because they know a specific person, or have a diverse range of friends. (That was not my intent at all; those who do that are indeed shallow.) But if you were more astute, I'm sure you'd realize my point about the issue of noting the ethnicity of some of my friends: it was just for illustrative purposes only. I didn't have to use ethnicity; I could have easily talked about religious affiliation as Dan did in his abortion example. The point I was trying to make goes something like this: Jen is from the Kalamazoo area, and Jen is kinda kooky, so therefore everyone from the Kalamazoo area is kooky. Obviously that line of reasoning is flawed. But the real issue is how you seemed to adopt that specific line of reasoning when you assumed all the students coming from the Pakistan/Afghanastan region to the Kalamazoo region were millitant Islamic fanatics, just like the terrorists were on 9/11. If you mis-spoke yourself and erroneously equated the actions of about 20 fanatics on 9/11 to the actions of a whole society, then please say so. All I'm trying to do is wonder what exactly it was you were trying to say in your original post. You were not clear on a number of points, so please, if you could, please clarify your points so everyone on this thread knows what you are saying.

  17. #17
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    conspiracy theories

    I shared this thread with my boss and he suggested that we were too polite and understanding. He shared links to a couple of boards he says to visit for some sense of reality.

    http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-an...%20Wild%20West

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/forum...p?s=&forumid=9

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    a gal from kalamazoo

    Beaner

    "So now as I'm leavin' I'm weary as hell
    The confusion I'm feelin ain't no tongue can tell
    The words fill my head & fall to the floor
    If God's on our side, He'll stop the next wat"

    -Bob Dylan: With God On Our Side

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    giff57: Too polite and understanding in which way? I'm not sure what you're getting at. I've seen your posts before and I appreciate your commentary. Could you expand on your recent posting? Thanks!

  20. #20
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    conspiracy theories

    Originally posted by Beaner
    giff57: Too polite and understanding in which way? I'm not sure what you're getting at. I've seen your posts before and I appreciate your commentary. Could you expand on your recent posting? Thanks!
    If you check out the extremism on those two links I posted it will be a little clearer. My boss simply meant that on this board when we disagree we are very civil, and not resorting to name calling and such. I guess I should have been more clear that it was tongue in cheek, and the links were for entertainment purposes.

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    Ah, yes, now I understand! Thanks for the clarification. And yeah, we are kind of polite around here, aren't we? Perhaps that is an indication of how small our profession is... that is, you never know who you might run into at a conference.

  22. #22
          Downtown's avatar
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    On Politeness and Understanding:

    Maybe we are so polite and understanding because that is the nature of our job to deal with so many different points of view with grace and aplomb. However, if we were building inspectors.... (that was a joke).

  23. #23
    Member Mary's avatar
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    "If we were building inspectors...."

    Not necessarily a joke. I know one who talks to new applicants by pointing at a parana and telling them that if they don't work with him... he is the parana.

    On the subject. I agree with what appears to be the majority here. Lets not get carried away. I'll admit the Islamic religion is unique in assuring them that if they die in a holy war they go straight to heaven. (Very Paraphrased) But that doesn't mean that they're all out to get us. Nor does it mean the US hasn't committed acts that helped this kind of insane behavior to feel justified to the (my personal opinion) idiots who did it. It does mean we don't want to start a war with a faith group who believe if their faith is the issue even if they die and loose they win. People who are willing to die, much less eager to are dangerous. So lets keep this focused on the problem not on every person with a darker shade of skin or from a foreign country. Yes there could be more terrorists arriving on student visas but I'm not willing to give up our free county and you are still FAR more likely to die in a car wreck or from a heart attack.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    politically correct?

    Welcome Mary

    Well it does seem that political correctness and standing up for the rights/privileges of foreign students seeking education in the U.S. is the majority view being expressed on this thread.

    But the ease in which bin ladens boys (on student visas) infiltrated our society cannot be overlooked. So I dont mind if someone has to wait awhile before they can come to the US to study. Too bad! We're at war and some privileges ought to be suspended.


    Last edited by Jen; 27 Oct 2001 at 11:26 AM.

  25. #25
    Member Mary's avatar
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    I don't mind seeing a delay I'm just against giving up the rights we've all come to expect and believe in, like privacy. We may need to be more alert but that doesn't mean I want to give every thing up in a rush of marshal law. If we do that our "free" country means very little.

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