Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Why the US is despised in Iran and elsewhere (history they don't teach in schools)

  1. #1
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    23,962

    Why the US is despised in Iran and elsewhere (history they don't teach in schools)

    I was party to a water cooler discussion a few minutes ago where one of the participants was puzzled....baffled by why the people of Iran should bear the USA so much enmity. "Iranians are a bunch of suicidal religious zealots. That's why they got rid of the Shah and took all those Americans prisoners back in 1979." I can't really blame this individual for maintaining that point of view. Those of us old enough to remember the Iranian revolution and the ensuing hostage crisis heard about the ordeal almost every day for over a year, but not once do I recall newscaster or news shows discussing the actual reasons why the American embassy was overrun, hostages taken, and America being considered Enemy #1. The talking heads at the time dwelled on corruption and how unpopular the Shah's policies were leading up to the revolution, but none of this explained why the US of A had a giant bullseye painted on it.

    The reason Iranians have it out for the Great Satan USA is because the CIA (in cooperation with the British) staged a coup against their democratically elected government back in 1953 and placed the Shah in power. This was known as Operation Ajax. Most Americans have never heard of this but not surprisingly this is common knowledge throughout Iran. And why would it not be?

    Following WW2 the US commanded enormous respect and goodwill around the globe. We instituted the Marshal Plan, rebuilt Europe, and extended mercy and compassion to our former foes. This is something historically not often done. But then we pissed away much of that goodwill immediately following by engaging in coups and other meddling/adventurism around the world during the Cold War.

    Show of hands, anyone (apart from WSU MUP) know what the Banana Wars were?

    We like to think of ourselves as being the 'Good Guys' but this country has a long history of meddling in the internal affairs of other countries.

    Now this is all coming home to roost.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  2. #2
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lowering the PCI in the Hills
    Posts
    8,680
    I was at the Detroit Institute of Arts a couple weeks ago with the Girl Scouts and while they were doing their pottery class I wandered around looking at the various exhibits. One of the pieces that caught my eye was this painting by Haitian-

    According to the literature that was posted along with the painting, it's supposed to represent Papa Doc riding on a U.S. gunship. Papa Doc created the Tonton Macoute (aka Uncle Gunnysack) "special forces" unit which was really basically a super brutal secret police force trained and equipped by the U.S. Marine Corps to put down any attempt at organizing a socialist resistance to Papa Doc's regime after a failed coup in the 1950s.

    Our intervention in the region didn't end with the withdrawal of U.S. troops at the end of the Banana Wars.
    1 3 5
    ├┼┼╕
    2 4 6 R

  3. #3
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    1,556
    I'm pretty torn up about the situation in Israel right now and the slaughtering of the Palestinian protesters. I posted a New Yorker article on Facebook just saying that we can't align with Israel to the point that we ignore the harm they're causing to others. Someone actually commented that Israel was in the right to kill and injure all those people. People are so blinded by their support that they refuse to hold Israel accountable for the violence they are unnecessarily inflicting on Palestinians.

    I really need to learn more about the whole situation, but I'm wondering if it was a mistake to try to resettle Israel in the first place. Obviously, you can't go back and undo what's been done, but has it actually accomplished anything good?

  4. #4
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
    Registered
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my 15 minute break
    Posts
    23,962
    Quote Originally posted by gtpeach View post
    I'm pretty torn up about the situation in Israel right now and the slaughtering of the Palestinian protesters. I posted a New Yorker article on Facebook just saying that we can't align with Israel to the point that we ignore the harm they're causing to others. Someone actually commented that Israel was in the right to kill and injure all those people. People are so blinded by their support that they refuse to hold Israel accountable for the violence they are unnecessarily inflicting on Palestinians.

    I really need to learn more about the whole situation, but I'm wondering if it was a mistake to try to resettle Israel in the first place. Obviously, you can't go back and undo what's been done, but has it actually accomplished anything good?
    It does beg the question what national interests are being advanced by intentionally antagonizing the Muslim world in moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. This kind of symbolic crap really doesn't benefit US interests in any way.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  5. #5
    Cyburbian The Terminator's avatar
    Registered
    May 2006
    Location
    914/514
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally posted by gtpeach View post
    I'm pretty torn up about the situation in Israel right now and the slaughtering of the Palestinian protesters. I posted a New Yorker article on Facebook just saying that we can't align with Israel to the point that we ignore the harm they're causing to others. Someone actually commented that Israel was in the right to kill and injure all those people. People are so blinded by their support that they refuse to hold Israel accountable for the violence they are unnecessarily inflicting on Palestinians.

    I really need to learn more about the whole situation, but I'm wondering if it was a mistake to try to resettle Israel in the first place. Obviously, you can't go back and undo what's been done, but has it actually accomplished anything good?
    it is absolutely indefensible and inexcusable. Certain factions of American liberalism need to realize that it is indeed possible to condemn Israeli human rights abuses while also refraining from and condemning antisemitism.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wishing I were in Asia somewhere!
    Posts
    10,965
    Blog entries
    5
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    I was party to a water cooler discussion a few minutes ago where one of the participants was puzzled....baffled by why the people of Iran should bear the USA so much enmity. "Iranians are a bunch of suicidal religious zealots. That's why they got rid of the Shah and took all those Americans prisoners back in 1979." I can't really blame this individual for maintaining that point of view. Those of us old enough to remember the Iranian revolution and the ensuing hostage crisis heard about the ordeal almost every day for over a year, but not once do I recall newscaster or news shows discussing the actual reasons why the American embassy was overrun, hostages taken, and America being considered Enemy #1. The talking heads at the time dwelled on corruption and how unpopular the Shah's policies were leading up to the revolution, but none of this explained why the US of A had a giant bullseye painted on it.

    The reason Iranians have it out for the Great Satan USA is because the CIA (in cooperation with the British) staged a coup against their democratically elected government back in 1953 and placed the Shah in power. This was known as Operation Ajax. Most Americans have never heard of this but not surprisingly this is common knowledge throughout Iran. And why would it not be?

    Following WW2 the US commanded enormous respect and goodwill around the globe. We instituted the Marshal Plan, rebuilt Europe, and extended mercy and compassion to our former foes. This is something historically not often done. But then we pissed away much of that goodwill immediately following by engaging in coups and other meddling/adventurism around the world during the Cold War.

    Show of hands, anyone (apart from WSU MUP) know what the Banana Wars were?

    We like to think of ourselves as being the 'Good Guys' but this country has a long history of meddling in the internal affairs of other countries.

    Now this is all coming home to roost.
    An excellent book to read about the mid 20th century CIA meddling in Iran is All the Shah's Men. Some pretty famous family names turn up in Operation Ajax, chief among them are Allen Dulles, Kermit Roosevelt and Norman Schwarzkopf Sr.

    The United States has a long track record of interfering in other countries' affairs. I always say that America loves itself a good dictator because it's easier to negotiate with one rather than a democratically elected head of state.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

  7. #7
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    11,051
    1950s Cuba

    Stalin's USSR (enemy of my enemy is my friend)

    Mubarak's Egypt

    same tune different lyrics

    I'm still amazed by the current Israel government's seeming total lack of self-awareness of their actions to oppress a minority population. I personally don't see any reason we need to back Israel so much apart from a friendly port in the Middle East...but our support makes the need for a friendly port necessary because the enmity is generates in the region (officially and unofficially).
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Every day is today. Yesterday is a myth and tomorrow an illusion.

    You know...for kids.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Planit's avatar
    Registered
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In a 480 square foot ex baseball nacho stand
    Posts
    10,638
    Another good resource is a book House of Bush House of Saud which goes back to the early 20th century and the oil business relationships.
    "Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
    "Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

  9. #9
    Mod Gedunker's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Wonderland Way
    Posts
    10,137
    I believe it was American gunboats off the coast of Colombia that begat Panama, no?

    Merde Yanquis!
    Not valid without corporate seal

  10. #10
    Super Moderator kjel's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wishing I were in Asia somewhere!
    Posts
    10,965
    Blog entries
    5
    Quote Originally posted by Planit View post
    Another good resource is a book House of Bush House of Saud which goes back to the early 20th century and the oil business relationships.
    That is a good book.
    "He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" Jeremiah 22:16

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. How to teach time management skills?
    Career Development and Advice
    Replies: 11
    Last post: 09 Oct 2008, 10:46 PM
  2. Replies: 19
    Last post: 30 Mar 2007, 2:01 AM
  3. The *true* Iran:
    Cities and Places
    Replies: 17
    Last post: 18 Apr 2006, 1:27 AM
  4. Iran
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 22
    Last post: 19 Nov 2004, 7:44 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last post: 04 Nov 2003, 9:30 AM