Urban planning community | #theplannerlife

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Biblical Doctrine - hateful or not?

  1. #1
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    18,435

    Biblical Doctrine - hateful or not?

    Our church group had an interesting discussion regarding tolerance, hate, and belief yesterday. What are your thoughts? Do you think that someone can subscribe to biblical doctrine without being classified as hateful?



    Moderator note:
    *Hink Split from RTDNTOTO ... even though it pained me
    Last edited by Hink; 15 May 2018 at 12:50 PM.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

  2. #2
    Unfrozen Caveman Planner mendelman's avatar
    Registered
    May 2003
    Location
    Staff meeting
    Posts
    11,051
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Our church group had an interesting discussion regarding tolerance, hate, and belief yesterday. What are your thoughts? Do you think that someone can subscribe to biblical doctrine without being classified as hateful?
    Depends on what you consider 'biblical doctrine'?

    Old Testament 'eye for eye' type doctrine or New Testament 'those without sin, cast the first stone' type doctrine?
    I'm sorry. Is my bias showing?

    Every day is today. Yesterday is a myth and tomorrow an illusion.

    You know...for kids.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    18,435
    Quote Originally posted by mendelman View post
    Depends on what you consider 'biblical doctrine'?

    Old Testament 'eye for eye' type doctrine or New Testament 'those without sin, cast the first stone' type doctrine?
    Mostly New Testament. There is a ton of stuff in the Old Testament that was included as foundational information, but not for actual practice. The sacrificial offerings for example no longer apply.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Remote command post at local bar
    Posts
    12,223
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Our church group had an interesting discussion regarding tolerance, hate, and belief yesterday. What are your thoughts? Do you think that someone can subscribe to biblical doctrine without being classified as hateful?
    Religion can be about love of god and man or it can be about do it my way and the rest of you are wrong. One is hate the other isn't. Not hard to figure out.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Doohickie's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, formerly Cheektowaga
    Posts
    916
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    Our church group had an interesting discussion regarding tolerance, hate, and belief yesterday. What are your thoughts? Do you think that someone can subscribe to biblical doctrine without being classified as hateful?
    Personally I think following biblical doctrine is anything *but* hateful. If your view of biblical doctrine is construed as hateful, you're doing biblical doctrine wrong, IMO. (That's a big part of my problem with the current incarnation of conservative Christianity.)

    Quote Originally posted by gtpeach View post
    What's y'all's policy on meeting on-site with opponents of special use permit/rezoning requests? I have a request that has not yet been submitted. Because we knew that it would be contentious, I advised the applicants to do some outreach with the neighbors ahead of time. One of them is a little over-the-top upset about any sort of change to the area. She wants to meet so she can show me the area and give me a tour to explain why the request is not good. I feel... unsettled about that.

    There was a request in the same general geographic area previously for a primitive campground and I had stated that it would be consistent with the character of the surrounding area (which is rural and wooded and near a river) and she strongly disagreed with my assessment. Which is fine - she can disagree. But I still don't think a primitive campground is out of character for an undeveloped area.
    You know what primitive campground means with respect to human waste disposal, right?

  6. #6
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    in a meeting
    Posts
    10,461
    Quote Originally posted by Doohickie View post
    Personally I think following biblical doctrine is anything *but* hateful. If your view of biblical doctrine is construed as hateful, you're doing biblical doctrine wrong, IMO. (That's a big part of my problem with the current incarnation of conservative Christianity.)
    yes this! I love the bumper stickers: who would Jesus bomb or Jesus was a community organizer

    The Republicans brilliantly and sadly hijacked Catholics with the pro-life bit to put Reagan in office - before that, most Catholics were Democrats, now, those of us that are left are refugees from the 60's and 70's

    the reality is there is not a political party that represents Catholicism so as a voter, you have to weigh what's most important to you
    Kim Wexler: Either you fit the jacket... or the jacket fits you.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Above urban19's plane field
    Posts
    3,939
    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    the reality is there is not a political party that represents Catholicism so as a voter, you have to weigh what's most important to you
    My MIL converted to Catholicism years ago - she votes on one issue only - abortion.
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Doohickie's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, formerly Cheektowaga
    Posts
    916
    Quote Originally posted by Bubba View post
    My MIL converted to Catholicism years ago - she votes on one issue only - abortion.
    That's really, really sad to me.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Above urban19's plane field
    Posts
    3,939
    Quote Originally posted by Doohickie View post
    That's really, really sad to me.
    Yep. I've seen my FIL literally moving his chair away from her when politics comes up at the dinner table (okay, that only happened once, and it was funny as hell). She's a really good person, and I get along with her just fine, but...
    I found you a new motto from a sign hanging on their wall…"Drink coffee: do stupid things faster and with more energy"

  10. #10
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    18,435
    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    Religion can be about love of god and man or it can be about do it my way and the rest of you are wrong. One is hate the other isn't. Not hard to figure out.
    I think that it interesting that you worded it that way. What about the other way around?

    Apparently there was an incident a few weeks ago with one of the members of our church, but not our group. They had a cross and a sicker with the name of the church on the back of their car and had to go into downtown to a kids birthday party at one of the museums. It happened to be the same day as a gay rights rally. She was confronted by someone in a parking garage as she was getting back into her car and was called all sorts of things in front of her kids. She was not even aware that there was the event going on since the parking garage was several blocks away and was adjacent to the kids museum.

    Would you classify this as hate?

    Personally, I think it is possible to disagree with a particular topic without it being classified as hate. For example, I am a beer snob and I like whiskey, yet my church is opposed to drinking. I have been at a hockey game with my pastor and I got a beer. He did not say anything and he did not think any less of me. I know he is opposed to drinking but is that hate? We have had group discussions regarding drinking before and we were both able to back our "arguments" based on biblical concepts.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian dvdneal's avatar
    Registered
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Remote command post at local bar
    Posts
    12,223
    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    I think that it interesting that you worded it that way. What about the other way around?

    Apparently there was an incident a few weeks ago with one of the members of our church, but not our group. They had a cross and a sicker with the name of the church on the back of their car and had to go into downtown to a kids birthday party at one of the museums. It happened to be the same day as a gay rights rally. She was confronted by someone in a parking garage as she was getting back into her car and was called all sorts of things in front of her kids. She was not even aware that there was the event going on since the parking garage was several blocks away and was adjacent to the kids museum.

    Would you classify this as hate?

    Personally, I think it is possible to disagree with a particular topic without it being classified as hate. For example, I am a beer snob and I like whiskey, yet my church is opposed to drinking. I have been at a hockey game with my pastor and I got a beer. He did not say anything and he did not think any less of me. I know he is opposed to drinking but is that hate? We have had group discussions regarding drinking before and we were both able to back our "arguments" based on biblical concepts.
    I think Doohickie said it better than me, but it all comes down to whether or not the statement or action is done out of love or hate. So many fine lines and grey areas. Especially when everyone gets offended by stupid stuff. Just because someone has a Westboro Church sticker doesn't mean I have to hate them. I might not want to talk to them and I might think they're all idiots, but I'll try to take the higher road and just not say anything. Unless of course they want to bring it up first. That's a different problem. We just need to love each other a little more in this world.
    I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    18,435
    Quote Originally posted by dvdneal View post
    I think Doohickie said it better than me, but it all comes down to whether or not the statement or action is done out of love or hate. So many fine lines and grey areas. Especially when everyone gets offended by stupid stuff. Just because someone has a Westboro Church sticker doesn't mean I have to hate them. I might not want to talk to them and I might think they're all idiots, but I'll try to take the higher road and just not say anything. Unless of course they want to bring it up first. That's a different problem. We just need to love each other a little more in this world.
    I agree with his statement as well and I agree that there are christian groups that are highlighted in the media that push it way too far. But I also think that there are others that wrongfully punish people because of their believes. For example, I am pro-life and I have expressed such on multiple occasions. But I think it is wrong to bash or belittle someone who has had an abortion. However, in the past I have been attacked by a person on this forum board because of my view point. Granted that was many years ago, but it still happens. I also know of people who have yelled at woman who were leaving an abortion clinic. I think that is wrong too. But is it wrong to protest in DC to encourage the government to change the laws? I figure it this way, Jesus befriended a prostitute and worse yet, a tax collector. Granted he told them to sin no more, but he still reached out and saw past their sin and found the good in them. I fear that there are many christians that are wrongfully classified as haters because they believe something different than someone else.

    For me, it comes down to love the person even if you don't agree with their viewpoints on a topic.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator luckless pedestrian's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2005
    Location
    in a meeting
    Posts
    10,461
    I think what is mind boggling is the extreme left can be elitist and mean, and the extreme right can be righteous and mean - so it's hard to really hear and understand opposing viewpoints when this is going on - and this has all poured into religion

    i think from being a planner for so many years now, I am more of the mind to be a moderate as we know there are no absolutes in life and most things are aren't necessarily good or bad but a little of both - it's hard to be a moderate in an extreme world
    Kim Wexler: Either you fit the jacket... or the jacket fits you.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
    Registered
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Somewhere between the mountains and the ocean.
    Posts
    18,435
    Quote Originally posted by luckless pedestrian View post
    I think what is mind boggling is the extreme left can be elitist and mean, and the extreme right can be righteous and mean - so it's hard to really hear and understand opposing viewpoints when this is going on - and this has all poured into religion

    i think from being a planner for so many years now, I am more of the mind to be a moderate as we know there are no absolutes in life and most things are aren't necessarily good or bad but a little of both - it's hard to be a moderate in an extreme world
    Are you absolutely confident that there are no absolutes in life? I believe that for some things there is an absolute right or wrong, but not everything. Moreso, just because someone does something that I think is a absolute wrong, does not mean that I hate or even dislike them. If that was the case I could not associate with anyone who voted for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. In fact, if we all disassociated for classified someone as "Hateful" because of a particular differing viewpoint, we all would be alone.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Fairness Doctrine and You
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 14
    Last post: 21 Sep 2009, 2:00 PM
  2. The pending ordinance doctrine
    Land Use and Zoning
    Replies: 12
    Last post: 04 Feb 2009, 8:14 AM