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Thread: Thai cave rescue

  1. #1
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Thai cave rescue

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ess/ar-AAzMtfg

    They've already successfully extracted 8 of the 12 kids trapped in the cave.

    What is it about these sorts of rescues that command the world's attention? Oddly, this sort of media attention is not extended to other human tragedies. A car bomb that kills 20 in Kabul barely warrants mention on page two, a famine in sub-Saharan Africa killing thousands may get no mention at all.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

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    Cyburbian MD Planner's avatar
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    Because people want to know what's going to happen. It could be a good outcome, it could be a train wreck. People want a front row seat to that stuff.

    This "coach" is a real idiot. I hope he is somehow prosecuted under their laws.
    He's a planner, he's a dreamer, he's a sordid little schemer,
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  3. #3
    Cyburbian WSU MUP Student's avatar
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    I think this captures the world's attention because it's ongoing. When a car bomb kills scores in Kabul, the actual newsyness is pretty much over as soon as it happens. With something like this (or a hurricane or the Chilean miners, etc.) the situation is evolving and news is continually coming out and evolving enough to keep people's attention.

    Quote Originally posted by MD Planner View post
    Because people want to know what's going to happen. It could be a good outcome, it could be a train wreck. People want a front row seat to that stuff.

    This "coach" is a real idiot. I hope he is somehow prosecuted under their laws.
    Having been in remote jungles and monsoon conditions (though thankfully not at the same time) I can see how somebody might try to take refuge from the elements inside a cave but I too was wondering how they wound up so far back/deep into the cave. Did they maybe enter the cave through a closer entrance that got totally submerged and impassible and the divers and rescuers had to go in through a different, further back one? Did they enter and just keep going deeper in and maybe worsening their situation?

    FWIW, I've never had a desire to go into ANY sort of cave and this only intensifies my resolve to not go in one.
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  4. #4
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by WSU MUP Student View post
    I think this captures the world's attention because it's ongoing. When a car bomb kills scores in Kabul, the actual newsyness is pretty much over as soon as it happens. With something like this (or a hurricane or the Chilean miners, etc.) the situation is evolving and news is continually coming out and evolving enough to keep people's attention.
    True, the car bomb tragedy example doesn't have an ongoing component to the story, but a famine or epidemic in Africa would certainly have an ongoing component. Yet these types of stories don't seem to capture the world's media attention the same way that a group of trapped soccer kids or Chilean miners does.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  5. #5
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    True, the car bomb tragedy example doesn't have an ongoing component to the story, but a famine or epidemic in Africa would certainly have an ongoing component. Yet these types of stories don't seem to capture the world's media attention the same way that a group of trapped soccer kids or Chilean miners does.
    There's definitely a sweet spot for how long people will pay attention. The ebola outbreak gained a lot of media attention, for example, but it was a relatively short outbreak cycle to when they were able to get it under control. Something like a famine will span many years, and I think it's just too long for people to hold interest in it.

  6. #6
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by gtpeach View post
    There's definitely a sweet spot for how long people will pay attention.
    You're too young to remember it, but the oldsters here will recall the Iranian Hostage Crisis. 52 Americans captured at the US embassy were held by Iranian revolutionaries for 444 days. If I had to use a word to describe the media coverage that event received during that 15 month period, I'd go with "relentless". Maybe our attention spans have shrunk over time. Or maybe the advent of the 24 hour news cycle has jaded us.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  7. #7
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    Or maybe the advent of the 24 hour news cycle has jaded us.
    I think this is likely the case. I think of certain things that seemed to constantly be in the news back a few decades. The Vietnam war coverage, the AIDS epidemic, etc. I think we have so much access to news that we get saturated over a much shorter course of time. Something notable happens, every news station covers it in depth, and we lose interest because we're hearing the same information regurgitated over and over again constantly.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian MD Planner's avatar
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    Apparently this guy takes kids into caves all the time but the water caught them "by surprise" this time. Still an idiot.

    I'm plenty old enough to remember the Iranian hostages. In fact, when they were released my mom took my sister and I out of school and we drove to Andrews Air Force Base to welcome them home along with a lot of other people. There was a picture of us in the Washington Post waving American flags and yellow ribbons as the buses drove by with the hostages waving at us. Lost my perfect attendance award that year because of it. I'm glad I did.
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  9. #9
    Cyburbian Michele Zone's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    You're too young to remember it, but the oldsters here will recall the Iranian Hostage Crisis. 52 Americans captured at the US embassy were held by Iranian revolutionaries for 444 days. If I had to use a word to describe the media coverage that event received during that 15 month period, I'd go with "relentless". Maybe our attention spans have shrunk over time. Or maybe the advent of the 24 hour news cycle has jaded us.
    From what I have heard, that is largely due to one guy (Walter Cronkite?) who decided to start every newscast with "It's day #X of the Iranian Hostage Crisis." before talking about actual new news. And the government was pissed off that he wouldn't let it die and he was embarrassing them.

    He had to come up with some kind of schtick to keep it fresh so he had an excuse to keep bringing it up and refusing to let it die and be forgotten. His schtick was to count the days and be very somber about the whole thing.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    The late night news show Nightline debuted days after the hostage crisis began, and it was Ted Koppel who kept count of the days on camera.

    The boys have a chance to be rescued, and I am interested and hope they all make it out alive. I haven’t paid that much attention, and I can’t help wondering why no one is digging or drilling straight down to rescue them. Maybe someone addressed this and I haven’t heard.

    So, as far as my interest goes, there’s potential for a good ending to this story.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian
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    Everyone's been rescued!!! What do we think about Elon Musk's involvement? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998

    It looks like it was well over a kilometer deep based on the photo at the end of the BBC article. I have no idea how long it would've taken to drill through that, but probably quite a while, and then they'd still need to work out the mechanics of removing everyone through that tunnel. It seems like it was probably more time effective (and not to mention stable) to use the passageway already in existence. But I haven't seen a full analysis of the options.

  12. #12
    moderator in moderation Suburb Repairman's avatar
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    I appreciate that they didn't get locked in a paraysis-by-analysis spiral. I was afraid they were heading that direction.

    As for Musk, I'm sick of him. He has proven nothing, other than he is an opportunistic marketer. That was his single reason for going to "help." Random piece off of a rocket converted to a submarine? GTFO. Go learn some geography. Learn how to help without seeking the spotlight, like the dozens of international cave experts did. In emergency management, few things are as irritating as well-meaning people that want to help getting in the way or distracting. You can't tech your way out of everything. There is no substitute for the human brain, field training & guts in a rescue.

    "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    - Herman Göring at the Nuremburg trials (thoughts on democracy)

  13. #13
    Cyburbian AG74683's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by MD Planner View post
    This "coach" is a real idiot. I hope he is somehow prosecuted under their laws.
    As far as I know, the kids and coach entered the cave prior to the the time the signs said not to enter. Granted the sign said to stay out from like the first week of July until November or something, and they entered towards the end of June, but I still don't think the coach is an idiot. It was certainly an ill advised decision though. A lot of reports say that he was absolutely instrumental in keeping the kids calm and alive during their time in the cave.

    Quote Originally posted by gtpeach View post
    Everyone's been rescued!!! What do we think about Elon Musk's involvement? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44779998
    I don't think they even used the "submarine" thing. I was under the impression that it was still too big to maneuver through the cave.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by AG74683 View post
    I don't think they even used the "submarine" thing. I was under the impression that it was still too big to maneuver through the cave.
    They did not use it. I don't know if it was because it was too big, although I think the article did say that they were concerned it would get stuck at one of the narrow points blocking the exit. But I think since the tunnel out involved not just swimming, but also climbing over some of the higher points, it probably would've been cumbersome to navigate out of the water. Not to mention, constantly getting someone in and out of the thing and not being able to visually monitor how the kids were doing would also potentially be problematic.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ess/ar-AAzMtfg



    What is it about these sorts of rescues that command the world's attention?
    Anything to distract from the consistent and relentless bad news at home....all day and every day. 24 hours.

    I'm just glad they all got out.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Plus
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    Cave rescue: The Australian diving doctor who stayed with the boys
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-44789693

    Australian diving expert who rushed from holidays to join the Thai cave rescue
    reveals the tragic moment he was called to retrieve the lifeless body of a colleague after she ran out of air
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ve-rescue.html

  17. #17
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I have been thinking about some of the comments in this thread and I too think it is interesting that we will focus so hard on this rescue while we seemingly turn our back on a whole host of other tragedies in the world.

    I think the difference is that we have become so accustomed to hearing about terrorism and death in places like the middle east, starvation in Africa, sex trafficking in Asia, and domestic violence at home that we have become numb to those tragedies. Whereas this was not only an unusual situation, but one that offered a possible sense of hope that the world could come together to save the lives of these boys in what would have otherwise been yet another tragic situation. More so we knew that it would have a definitive end and we could invest time and emotion in it. There are many other conflicts and situations that have no end in sight and we seem to lose interest in those quickly.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

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    Cyburbian Bubba's avatar
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    Mod Gedunker's avatar
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    The media attention is nothing new: In January 1925, Floyd Collins, a cave explorer, got stuck in Mammoth Cave, Kentucky. The rescue attempt was covered by The (Louisville) Courier-Journal for more than two weeks and went out over the wire services and radio around the world. They reached his body on the 17th of February. He had apparently been deceased for about 4 days. Unlike Thailand, tourists camped out to hear the news and some people even sold souvenirs.

    As for Thailand, I think it harsh in the extreme to expect the coach to be prosecuted to the fullest. He certainly didn't do it on purpose and he may well be said to be the reason the kids survived. Plus, he's only 25 himself. Have a little mercy folks.
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  20. #20
    Chairman of the bored Maister's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by michaelskis View post
    There are many other conflicts and situations that have no end in sight and we seem to lose interest in those quickly.
    And yet it is these very big and prolonged fights (e.g. antibiotic resistant bacteria, climate change, religious fundamentalism, anti-vaxxers, wars, etc.) that threaten to turn the hands back on the clock of civilization that should occupy the greatest part of our attention and energy. I guess those things lack the clearly defined and limited focus that a group of kids trapped in a cave affords.
    People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

  21. #21
    Cyburbian
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    Quote Originally posted by Gedunker View post
    As for Thailand, I think it harsh in the extreme to expect the coach to be prosecuted to the fullest. He certainly didn't do it on purpose and he may well be said to be the reason the kids survived. Plus, he's only 25 himself. Have a little mercy folks.
    I agree with this. Plus, it sounds like the wet season when it's not safe to go into the cave technically started July 1, so they were likely trying to get one last exploration in before the rainy season set in.

    I also read that the coach was a former monk that often practiced meditation. I'm sure that had a lot to do with his ability to keep the kids calm and under control.

    I don't think I would ever be able to go into those kinds of caves. What happened to this team is probably one of my worst nightmares. I'm almost positive I wouldn't have survived that - I'd likely have panicked and had a heart attack.

  22. #22
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Maister View post
    And yet it is these very big and prolonged fights (e.g. antibiotic resistant bacteria, climate change, religious fundamentalism, anti-vaxxers, wars, etc.) that threaten to turn the hands back on the clock of civilization that should occupy the greatest part of our attention and energy. I guess those things lack the clearly defined and limited focus that a group of kids trapped in a cave affords.
    There was more people killed in Chicago during 18 day period ending on July 8th (last date of record), than were trapped in the cave.
    If you want different results in your life, you need to do different things than you have done in the past. Change is that simple.

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