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Thread: I'm geographically undesirable

  1. #1
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    I'm geographically undesirable

    Sigh.

    I work about 20 miles west of downtown Orlando. Orlando's road network is configured in a way that makes accessibility to the western suburbs difficult from the rest of the metro area; to avoid a "commute from hell," I've got to live fairly close to work.

    I'll be having a great conversation with a woman ... that is, until I tell them where I live. A couple of seconds later, it's "buh bye."

    I have just discovered that what seems like 80% of the "quality" single women in Orlando live north of downtown, in the I-4 corridor -- Altamonte Springs, Winter Park, Longwood, Oviedo and thereabouts. It's fairly easy to get from the "north side" to just about every part of the metro area -- except the "west side," where I live. Outside of rush hour, it'll be at least a half hour drive for me to reach Altamonte Springs, which seems to be the epicenter of Orlando's single population.

    Singles on the "west side?" Almost nonexistent. Lots of white trash women in one town (I sound elitist, but what would I have in common with a woman that has a femullet and a big "3" sticker in the back window of her truck?); tons of upper middle class families in Windermere, and in Ocoee, a relatively nice suburb where I just bought a house, I'm supposedly one of a very few single folk in a city of 25,000. In Ocoee, the average household size is 3.1, even in apartments.

    Just felt the need to vent.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  2. #2
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    What's wrong with mullets?

    Ya mean ya don't want a young lady with a mullet?! What's wrong with that? Business in front, party in the back...

    Actually, don't worry about it, bro. Didn't you just move there? Sounds like you need to absorb the regional culture a bit more. If it were me, I'd give it six to twelve months before I made any hard and fast conclusions about the dating pool. Of course, first impressions are hard to ignore. And depending on what type of person you are and what qualities you are looking for, you must also consider the fact that you are indeed in sunny Florida and you may run across a disproportionate amount of airy, self-absorbed females. This isn't to say they are all like that, but I had a couple of friends move to Florida for this specific reason. They are looking for the easy lay!

  3. #3

    I'm undesirable, geographically

    I once lived and worked in a town that was a religious enclave for senior citizens, so don't whine about living in a state famous for bikinis.

    Now, if you were to rave about finding your true self in Key West, then I'd worry. Not that there is anything wrong with yada yada..

  4. #4
    Member trishm1's avatar
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    Poor Baby

    I am a bit confused. What does a "3" in the back window mean??? Maybe I'm not "white trash" enough? I don't have a "femullet" (big laugh when I read this) so maybe that's why.

    I do understand about being geographicly undesirable tho. When I lived in Atlanta the traffic problem really limited my social and professional life. It really (scuse my french) sucked!

    Dan, there has got to be one or two single women in your neighborhood that are up to par. Maybe you should expand your search area to nontraditional routes. Like the local public library, white trash don't read, so that'll weed some out. Any yuppie, gourmet markets or health food stores in your area? White trash don't eat good neither. Maybe join a sports outing club or volunteer organization?

    I don't know what else to tell you. Good luck and don't worry about it.

  5. #5
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    I'm geographically undesirable

    <<Maybe you should expand your search area to nontraditional routes. Like the local public library, white trash don't read, so that'll weed some out. Any yuppie, gourmet markets or health food stores in your area? White trash don't eat good neither.>>


    How about crusing the dentists offices, at least you'll know she'll have most of her teeth!

  6. #6
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    Tsk, tsk! Are we elitist, or what?!

    How cruel, as planners to go off and declare those who **appear** to be less fortunate and call them "white trash."

    Wow, how eff-ing elitist!

    Now, mind you, I can appreciate you folks who go ahead and speak your mind on these boards, but c'mon, how about a shred of decency? I know, there is humor embedded in the posts of this thread, but how do you know that some in your audience aren't former "white trash?" There might be some one who likes these boards who happened to come from a poor background and was lucky enough to get a decent education and is now in the planning profession. You guys are lame!

    Plus, in some circles, oftentimes with a group of friends, I have found the term "white trash" is an offensive analog of "******," "spik," or "chink." Feel free to use derogatory terms in this board if you must, but keep in mind how pathetic you may sound.

  7. #7
          Downtown's avatar
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    White Trash is a State of Mind

    I think it is pretty agreeable to everyone that "White Trash" isn't the nicest lifestyle description, but just because someone comes from a poor background or isn't educated doesn't make them white trash. White Trash is a chosen lifestyle, just as it is to be a Yuppie or a DINK. I grew up in a trailer in a town with more cows than people, and I do have members of my family that are self admitted white trash - chickens in the house, Jerry Springer on the tv, spittoon (well, old Mountain Dew bottle) next to the living room couch, 8 junk cars on the front lawn. Its all about making lifestyle choices. I think Dan is justified in not wanting to hook up with white trash people, just as I wouldn't hook up with yuppies.

  8. #8
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    What exactly do you mean by "white trash"?

    What do you mean by "white trash"?

    As I said in my latest post, "white trash" can be considered a derogatory term, like the term "******." KMateja, while I do appreciate your explanation of "white trash" as a lifestyle choice, I wonder if you have also considered other aspects of the uasge of "white trash."

    Are "******s" just engaging in a lifestyle choice? The way you define "white trash" makes it sound like the usage of "white trash" is harmless and doesn't imply anything cruel or unusual. I would assert using the term "white trash" is the equivalent of using the term "******."

    In some circles, I would imagine some folks refer to themselves as "white trash" or as "niggas," but for those of us looking in, I certainly would refrain from using the terms "white trash," "******," or "*****." By assigning those words to certain groups who look and act a certain way, aren't we just engaging in an elitist, racist, and separatist attitude toward individuals we know nothing about? As planners, I hope these biases do not surface when dealing with the public. But then again, how many professionals who visit these boards actually work in urban areas with massive crime, unemployment, and extensive racial problems? I would assume most here in Cyburbia are from the "booming" areas of the US where mostly white folks are locating.

    I apologize for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. Obviously, not everyone here is racist. I just thought a "check" was in order. I don't think Dan's original post was intended to go in this direction, but after trishm1 posted, I felt it was necessary to point out how using the term "white trash" is not as harmless as it may seem. Also, I don't mean to imply that we should engage in an over-reactionary PC stance that elimates free thought and expression, however, I do hope we can choose our words more carefully. Thanks for listening.

  9. #9
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Re: What exactly do you mean by "white trash"?

    Originally posted by ianplanner

    I apologize for this rant, but I had to get it off my chest. Obviously, not everyone here is racist. I just thought a "check" was in order. I don't think Dan's original post was intended to go in this direction, but after trishm1 posted, I felt it was necessary to point out how using the term "white trash" is not as harmless as it may seem. Also, I don't mean to imply that we should engage in an over-reactionary PC stance that elimates free thought and expression, however, I do hope we can choose our words more carefully. Thanks for listening.
    I should have been a bit more careful with my terminology, I'll admit. However, I struggled to find a term that best describes uneducated, lower income whites with a culturally rural orientation and a slovenly lifestyle.

    In my day-to-day work, I treat those of lower socioeconomic groups with the same amount of respect and consideration as those who live in the tract mansions. After all, all citizens are equal, and wherever practical, I do try to follow the philosophy of Norm Krumholz in being an "advocate" of sorts to those with little clout.

    However, in my personal life, I should be free to associate with whomever I want to associate with. My friends tend to be peers -- educated working professionals and skilled tradespeople in their 20s through the early 40s. (Yes, it is a group that is gender, race and sexual orientation inclusive.) Naturally, I tend to gravitate to those who are like me than with those from a completely different, almost alien socioeconimic group. While I'm open-minded towards the circle of friends I keep, odds are the Iranian Gen-X immigrants that congregate at the neighborhood Starbucks, or the construction workers that gather in a diner near where I work, aren't likely to include me in their "group" -- I'm the one that's too different. One group will shun me because I can't debate the issues of the day in rapidfire Farsi, and the other will think I'm too much of a yuppie (relatively speaking), and a damn Yankee to boot.

    An ex-girlfriend of mine, a Boulder native, was one of the most politically correct people I have ever known. She meant well, but her concept of "tolerance" and "embracing diversity" was that you not only had to enthusiastically delve into different subcultures, but that you also had to embrace and like every aspect of them, too. In her book, if you shun gangsta rap music, you're a racist. If you can't stand Lifetime movies, you're an insensitive misogynist. If you're a picky eater, and you don't like some kinds of ethnic cuisine, you're shunning that entire culture. (Her rules about "embracing diversity" didn't apply to her choice of boyfriends, who by her standards must be tall, liberal, creative, and possessing of a good voice -- but that's for another discussion.)

    I think we all practice discrimination in our personal lives. No, I'm not talking about discrimination in the contemporary sense, as the term applies to acts of bigotry and hatred -- but instead personal preferences, such as the type of music or food we enjoy, or the friends we keep. Why should I choose to date people that I'm likely to be incompatible with, only for the sake of "embracing diversity?"

    (On a tangent, it seems as if there's only three groups of people that you can denigrate without fear of sounding politically incorrect -- the aforementioned uneducated, lower income whites with a culturally rural orientation and a slovenly lifestyle; whites from the Southeastern United States; and males that are taller than "little people" but shorter than 5'9"/175cm tall.)
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  10. #10
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Re: Poor Baby

    Originally posted by trishm1
    I am a bit confused. What does a "3" in the back window mean???
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  11. #11
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    There is always someone standing over you watching what you say and when you say it. Freedom of Speech! Gotta love it!

    I found it humorous that Ian is playing the mother role. Ian, you just like to repromand people huh? C'mon admit it.

    I'm sure you've never said anything bad about anyone or any group.

  12. #12
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    laxman33:

    I don't think I'm reprimanding anyone; I'm just raising the issue and felt like I had to point out that "white trash" is not so innocent of a term.

    Feel free to keep using it and other words. I really don't care. But sometimes people don't know when they're being deragatory. And by pointing out the possibility that some one may have accidentally and innocently written something deragotory, I've given the individual the opportunity to clarify the statement. I just want to know who's being rude or if they really didn't know they came across that way.

    I can't control what others write, nor do I want to. I just want to know who and what I'm dealing with. As long as I said my piece on the "white trash" word choice, I can feel better about being part of this forum.

  13. #13
         
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    Dan, thanks for the Earnhardt/Jesus image. That is the greatest thing I've seen in a while.

    Ian, lighten up a bit. I appreciate your sensitivity to the topic, but I seriously doubt any racial or socioeconomic derogation was intended.

    I am a former Floridiot and proud member of the "white trash" community (Local 6206, Royal Order of the Mullet). People make fun of southern culture, but I can't get enough of it - seriously. I love grits, cornbread and collard greens and often catch myself watching shows about bass fishing. I drive a beat up old pick-up truck. I listen to Whiskeytown and Uncle Tupelo. Mama's from Atlanta and deddy's from 'Bama. I miss the south. There aren't any Waffle Houses, Stuckey's or Cracker Barrels out here in the yuppified west.

    Dan, speaking as a former long-time Florida bachelor, here's my advice. Florida is a magnet for two types of people: 1) sun worshipping beach bunnies, and 2) fugitives on "America's Most Wanted." I never had much luck in the big city dating scene in Florida. I did, however, do much better in/around college towns (Gainesville is full of smart, fun women). Unless you are content with spending your weekends at the Booby Trap in Apopka, I suggest you endure the commute into downtown O-town. Church Street Station is chock full o' babes on any given weekend. Rollins College has more 30-something women in their commuter graduate programs than you might imagine. Orlando actually has some charm and culture in its downtown. I don't think you'll find that many single, intelligent women outside the cities and, to be honest, it's difficult enough in Florida to begin with. Plus, it helps to have an established network of friends to introduce you to people - so it's really hard to meet women when you're in a new town.

    Any interesting female planners in your vicinity? I suggest you go to the FAPA conference next month and unleash your prowess!!! Kidding of course. But I do know a number of cool intelligent single female planners in Florida.

    That's my $.02. Best of luck!

  14. #14
    maudit anglais
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    Thanks to Brent for getting this post back on track - and thanks to Dan for the Earnhardt image - that was priceless!

    I'm sure Florida is a far sight better than the cold northern mining town I ended up in for two and a half years! Take that "southern" lifestyle that seems to be so reviled on this site, and add cold weather, and a lot of rock. To top it off, the economy was so bad, all the young smart people were leaving soon as they could... Still, doesn't sound as bad as the old-timer's religious retreat - ouch!

    Whatever you do, don't lower your standards!

    In the end, I did find happiness...with my boss's daughter. He's okay with it, honestly! We're now happily together back down south (relative term - that's still north to most of you here).

  15. #15
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Originally posted by Tranplanner
    Thanks to Brent for getting this post back on track - and thanks to Dan for the Earnhardt image - that was priceless!
    As they say in Winter Garden -- he went to race in a better place ... sniff ...
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  16. #16

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    Who is a Yankee?

    Who we are and where we're from is all relative. Someone from Texas or Alabama visiting Brazil will be called a "Yankee" by the South American locals and will accept it without rancor. However, ask these Southerners on their home turf to define a Yankee, and they will say somebody living north of the Mason-Dixon Line. This definition includes folks from New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Head to the Jersey Shore and ask someone to define Yankee, and they will pull out a road atlas and send you to New England. After leaving the Interstate and driving about totally lost for awhile, you eventaully end up in Rhode Island, where a Providence native tells you Yankees are people living in Vermont. Arriving in the bustling city of Burlington, you ask the question a final time, and are sent down the road to the farmer who still uses the outhouse and chops wood for the winter. This guy will point out back to the little stone wall lined family cemetery containing six generations of his ancestors, and says "Them's the REAL Yankees!"

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Plannibelle's avatar
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    <How cruel, as planners to go off and declare those who **appear** to be less fortunate and call them "white trash." >

    Heck, I dunno 'bout you but I am an elitest white trash female. I know how to plan a city, by God and the little folks are cluelesss! Now will some guy give me a beer? I gotta finish this staff report on a proposed Jesuit Monastery next to a Brick Mfg site.

    Besides I read some behaviorial piece that white trash are wild in bed... he he

    Seriously, I think in any big city, it's tough meeting people. The last few years for me have been via the interent. I would never date the guys where I work. Ugh.

    <People make fun of southern culture, but I can't get enough of it - seriously. I love grits, cornbread and collard greens and often catch myself watching shows about bass fishing.>

    One of my recent BF was from GA. When I first was served grits I thought it he put some beach sand and water on my plate. It sure tasted like beach sand and water.

    I finally grown a liking for grits. It beats soggy oatmeal anyday!
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 07 Feb 2006 at 12:45 PM.

  18. #18
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Originally posted by Plannibelle
    Heck, I dunno 'bout you but I am an elitest white trash female.
    and ...
    Besides I read some behaviorial piece that white trash are wild in bed... he he
    :!

    Orlando ... Los Angeles ... Orlando ... Los Angeles ... DAMNIT!
    I gotta finish this staff report on a proposed Jesuit Monastery next to a Brick Mfg site.
    Bah. Nuthin' compared to Winnagahdun.
    Seriously, I think in any big city, it's tough meeting people. The last few years for me have been via the interent. I would never date the guys where I work. Ugh.
    Dan's Rules of Planning #54 - the attractive planners of the appropriate sex always work in the next city over. Your planning department, on the other hand. COROLLARY - All the babes/hunks you see at the APA national conference that you never encounter in your workplace.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 16 Apr 2004 at 12:39 PM.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  19. #19
    Cyburbian Plannibelle's avatar
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    <Orlando ... Los Angeles ... Orlando ... Los Angeles ... DAMNIT!>

    LOL! I think there is some cliche' about working hard for great rewards and all that....

    No offense but I *really* don't get the mistique of Florida. Now you guys have sharks too, I mean besides the one on city council...

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I gotta finish this staff report on a proposed Jesuit Monastery next to a Brick Mfg site.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    <Bah. Nuthin' compared to Winnagahdun. >

    I don't even know how to pronouce that! Why do I get freudian flashbacks that mulitsyllabic towns have issues with size?

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Seriously, I think in any big city, it's tough meeting people. The last few years for me have been via the interent. I would never date the guys where I work. Ugh.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Dan's Rules of Planning #54 - the attractive planners of the appropriate sex always work in the next city over. Your planning department, on the other hand. COROLLARY - All the babes/hunks you see at the APA national conference that you never encounter in your workplace.

    keep this quiet ok? a large portion of planners in this neck of the woods are not hetero....

  20. #20
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Originally posted by Plannibelle
    keep this quiet ok? a large portion of planners in this neck of the woods are not hetero....
    I had a phone Interview with the City of West Hollywood several years ago. I think I know why I didn't get the job.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 16 Apr 2004 at 12:40 PM.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  21. #21
    Cyburbian Plannibelle's avatar
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    Dont bother applying to San Francisco either.

  22. #22
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    If I ever leave Orlando, Eureka is one California city on the short list. The quality of life in SF just isn't worth the astronomical cost of living there. I might be able to afford a refrigerator carton in East Palo Alto, but that's about it.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Plannibelle's avatar
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    Eureka? Are you kidding?

    What's wrong with Southern California or San Diego?

    So there's an occasional earthquake here and there. Big deal.

    At least you won't wake up with an alligator in your bed. Unless you had too many to drinks and you took her home, that is.

  24. #24
    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Originally posted by Plannibelle
    What's wrong with Southern California or San Diego?
    I'll wait until the next housing bust, so I can afford to get in. Even with the higher salaries, I still won't be able to afford a decent house. The thought of commuting from Fontana or Compton isn't really too enticing.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 16 Apr 2004 at 12:40 PM.
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  25. #25
          Downtown's avatar
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    Dan, What about the State Chapter of the APA conferences? Having been to my share of national and state APA conferences, there seem to be ample social opportunities. I've witnessed several examples of dual planners relationships as a result of the conferences.

    I was fortunate to find my husband in grad school. We still ended up working for the same town anyway (different departments).

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