From my brief time on the Gulf Coast, I would agree with Z. G. Tampa was (its been quite a while now) one of the most depressing cities I have ever seen. It just felt "mean" somehow.
From a discussion on another board, it appears to have gotten better???
I still remember Ybor City being the battleground between a group of skinheads and a group calling itself "The African People's Socialist Party." Not to forget the Klan sherrif candidates in the surrounding counties.
I Never even considered Boston chasing SF, how funny. From a culinary view (minus the lobster bisque) it will be years before they catch up. As for skyline, need I say anything.I could never figure out exactly who they were chasing - certainly not New York, maybe San Fransisco...
A town I love and I'm pretty sure has no complex is Vancouver, BC, but I'm not Canadian, so I wouldn't know.
Not much else I can say but .... I agree!Originally posted by Zoning Goddess
Tampa is butt ugly compared to Orlando, they have the "projects" from hell. And no lakes. And they're not on the gulf, really, they don't have an actual beach. If you were a native, you would know what history Orlando has. And from the other end of the "mature" spectrum, cities aren't solely ranked on how hot the night life is for the 30-ish crowd, but then I think you were really at the wrong end of town. I lived near Tampa for 16 years and found it to be one of the most depressing downtowns I have ever seen. Ybor City has been a cesspool since the Silver Ring closed.
I got a chance once to hear a professor from the University of South Florida talk about the university's community outreach efforts in Tampa about five years ago, and I left thinking Tampa was WAY worse than my general perception of it as more like Orlando. In fact, he described a city more like Miami, circa 1986, full of ethnic/racial/class strife and on the verge of "social unrest". I believe he mentioned some sort of "clash" in the mid-'90s, but that may have been in St. Pete.Originally posted by BKM
From my brief time on the Gulf Coast, I would agree with Z. G. Tampa was (its been quite a while now) one of the most depressing cities I have ever seen. It just felt "mean" somehow.
"Toronto thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread, as does Dallas, Atlanta, San Francisco and New York."
i get a good laugh out of that statement . . . Atlanta has an almost pathologically deep-seated inferiority complex when compared to almost any other large city. Altho' I can see how the severe insecurity could come off as cockiness, it's a VERY thin facade of bravado. Atlanta has the disease of wanting to be a "world-class city" (whatever that is). but tries to copy a little piece of every other city, rather than capitalizing on what strengths it has.
Whereas San Francisco's self regard (what other city refers to itself, capitalized, as The City, in the local yellow newspaper) allows it to ignore terrible problems with disfunctional government, armies of the "lost" defecating on main downtown sidewalks, self-important "progressive" elites worrying more about protecting viewsheds and the plight of the campesinos in Mexico than the total loss of local job base, etc.
That's the other side of the coin from inferiority complex, the "Self-Deluded Superiority Complex"
I saw this comedian do a routine on San Fransisco the other night. His focus was on how they had progress in every civil venture except making the city livable. OMG/LMAOOriginally posted by BKM
Whereas San Francisco's self regard (what other city refers to itself, capitalized, as The City, in the local yellow newspaper) allows it to ignore terrible problems with disfunctional government, armies of the "lost" defecating on main downtown sidewalks, self-important "progressive" elites worrying more about protecting viewsheds and the plight of the campesinos in Mexico than the total loss of local job base, etc.
That's the other side of the coin from inferiority complex, the "Self-Deluded Superiority Complex"
Let us not forget the great Springfield v. Capitol City debate. Shelbyville is so yesterday.
Last edited by NHPlanner; 29 Sep 2005 at 12:48 PM.
I think Cleveland has everybody beat on this one. Cleveland feels inferior to all cities, large and small. People in other cities say "it could be worse. We could live in Cleveland!"
Cleveland doesn't have to be so inferior; it boasts an arts tradition that would be the envy of many cities. If only it would clean up the Cuyahoga River and have more sunshine, it would be more attractive.
Milwaukee musical artiste Sigmund Snopek wrote a song about 15 years ago called "Thank G*d this isn't Cleveland"Originally posted by apagano
I think Cleveland has everybody beat on this one. Cleveland feels inferior to all cities, large and small. People in other cities say "it could be worse. We could live in Cleveland!"
Cleveland DOES have a great detective novelist, Les Roberts. Jakksjkejfdjhfzzz??? is his character (some Slovenian name full of consonants) is cool!
Hijack: Nobody beats James Lee Burke, though. The guy is detective novel GOD!
I have on funny comment about Cleveland.
Buffalo is always trying to be more like "Cleveland" and I have read more than once in Cleveland's news paper that if "we can only do such and such we can be more like Buffalo"
We are two rust belt cities trying to be each other, but why?
Cleveland State University's graduate planning program was something of an unofficial sister program to UB's grad planning department some years ago.Originally posted by Yodan731
We are two rust belt cities trying to be each other, but why?
To hear it from Cleveland State profs, Cleveland is jealous of Buffalo because:
1) Buffalo still has a sizeable middle-class to upper-income presence in the city limits. They compared Social Registers for both cities; Cleveland's entries were mostly suburban, Buffalo's were about 60% urban. Profs from Cleveland state lived mostly in the 'burbs; UB profs lived in the city.
2) Cleveland has no equivalent to Buffalo's Elmwood Village, Allentown or North Buffalo business districts; vibrant urban commercial strips that are regional magnets.
3) Buffalo has a richer architectural legacy.
Buffalo is jealous of Cleveland because:
1) Cleveland seems to have a "can do" spirit that Buffalo lacks. While Buffalo's leaders talk for years and produce endless waterfront plans, Cleveland just acts and builds.
2) Buffalo doesn't have an equivalent to the Flats district; Chippewa Street is close, but Buffalo's old First Ward warehouse district is still just that.
3) Cleveland's suburbs blow Buffalo's burbs out of the water for urban design and quality of life. With a few exceptions, the "East Side: and "West Side" are much nicer than the "Northtowns" and "Southtowns."
4) Cleveland has large major corporations, and a legacy of corporate stewardship. Buffalo has been a back-office city since the late 1800s; there's no major corporateions headquartered in the city or the 'burbs.
5) Cleveland has the Metroparks system; Buffalo has scattered patches of greenery here and there.
Here's the pathetic thing. I live in Virginia Beach (during the summer at least) and Virginia Beach has an inferiority complex to Norfolk (despite having twice the population), and the Hampton Roads region as a whole has this inferiority complex to Northern Virginia and Richmond too. Williamsburg has an inferiority complex to Charlottesville, blah blah blah. Sigh.
-Ben
As a graduate of UVa's Planning Program, I only would say that Williamsburg SHOULD feel inferior to Charlottesville
(JK!)
It used to be Rochester felt inferior to Buffalo, but now it's starting to look the other way around...
Rochester Metro area should surpass Buffalo Metro in population by 2010.
High Tech jobs springing up all over the place in Rochester.
Mayor Johnson in Rochester is all about urban renewal. So many plans on the table - Cordish coming in to rebuild High Falls, Rochester Rhinos Soccer Stadium downtown, new transit center, bigger zoo, Performing Arts Theater, Fast Ferry from Toronto to a rebuilt Port of Rochester, new condos, apartments, and lofts downtown...
Tom Golisano (Rochester billionaire) may be buying the Buffalo Sabres. He'd keep them in Buffalo, but would move a couple of games to the Blue Cross Arena in Rochester.
1) Buffalo still has a sizeable middle-class to upper-income presence in the city limits.Originally posted by Dan
Dan, actually there is a significant middle/upper income population in Cleveland proper. I was involved in some work in Cleveland, and the extreme western portion (in the city limits) does have a middle and upper class population. We're talking USD$45,000 median incomes and median home sales over $100k. There's about 20,000 people in these census tracts.
I don't believe that Buffalo ffels inferior to Rochester.
Is the population really going to overtake that of Buffalo? Or is Buffalo just falling faster. Also, Isn't the Buffalo metro a good 200,000 or more people larger than Rochester's metro area?
It seems to me that Rochester and Buffalo are very similar cities, but I don't know that anyone in Buffalo feels inferior to Rochester.
At least not me : ) But I am a little crazy.
According to the 2000 census figures, Erie County (Buffalo), NY had a population of 944,408 and Monroe County (Rochester) had 733,607 people.Originally posted by Yodan731
Is the population really going to overtake that of Buffalo? Or is Buffalo just falling faster. Also, Isn't the Buffalo metro a good 200,000 or more people larger than Rochester's metro area?
-Sorority Life and Fraternity Life in Buffalo, Wednesday's from 10-11pm ET on MTV. TUNE IN!!
But is the Rochester metro growing in population? I was under the impression that it was shrinking, just like Buffalo.
Does Rochester have suburbs in other counties? I couldn't find info on the metro area, just the county. Rochester seems to be growing slowly, real slowly. Buffalo is shrinking slowly, real slowly.
Rochester
Monroe County 2000 ~ 735,343
Monroe County 1990 ~ 713,968
Buffalo
Erie County 2000 ~ 950,265
Erie County 1990 ~ 968,532
Last edited by NHPlanner; 29 Sep 2005 at 12:48 PM.
We are so addicted to GROWTH GROWTH GROWTH.
It might be nice-while acknowledging the problems of Buffalo and Rochester, to live in a "stable" area.
I love where I live (Vacaville, California), but I just know that much of what I like about the place (ten minutes to open countryside, lots of nice, low traffic bicycling roads, relatively low traffic congestion) will be steadily disappearing in a sea of beige stucco boxes all named "El Hispano Rancho" and "Rolling Acres." Not to mention the countryside being chopped into 5-acre ranchettes by city people living pretend rural lives.
End Rant.
Here's the stats:
The Rochester MSA population is composed of the counties of Genesee (5.5% of the area's population in 2000), Livingston (5.9%), Monroe (67%), Ontario (9.1%), Orleans (4%) and Wayne (8.5%).
Summary Metro Area Data (and Source)
Population (2000 Census): 1,098,201
Foreign-born Population (2000 Census): 62,794
Share Foreign Born (2000): 5.7%
Immigrant Stock (2000 CPS): 132,000
Share Immigrant Stock (2000 est.): 12.3%
Immigrant Settlement 1991-98 (INS): 12,950
* Population Projection 2025 (FAIR): 1,192,000
http://www.fairus.org/html/msas/042nyroh.htm
The Buffalo MSA population is composed of the counties of Erie (81.2% of the area's population in 2000), and Niagara (18.8%).
Summary Metro Area Data (and Source)
Population (2000 Census): 1,170,111
Foreign-born Population (2000 Census): 51,381
Share Foreign Born (2000): 4.4%
Immigrant Stock (2000 CPS): 163,000
Share Immigrant Stock (2000 est.): 14.9%
Immigrant Settlement 1991-98 (INS): 10,998
* Population Projection 2025 (FAIR): 1,123,700
http://www.fairus.org/html/msas/042nybuf.htm
I read before 2010 was the target date of surpassing, but according to this data, it looks more like 2020 or so.
Here's a list of metro areas in population order:
http://www.demographia.com/db-usmet2000.htm
In my country,Many people who live in southern part of Taiwan
thinks in that way...
Taichung,Kaohsiung feels inferior to Taipei...
joseohe, do most East Asian cities have an inferiority complex to Hong Kong? Also, do have a sense for what Southeast Asian city is preeminent? My guess would be Singapore.
feels incredibly defensive of itself.
I don't think it feels inferior, they just want to kick the crap out of anyone that talks bad about the town.
Hence, the reputation of it being a rough town.
Dude, I'm cheesing so hard right now.
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