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Poll results: Gay Civil Unions?

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • Let's do this thing America.

    28 63.64%
  • I'm not sure, but I think it is the right thing to do.

    11 25.00%
  • I'm not sure, but I think it may lead to disaster, dogs and cats living together...

    2 4.55%
  • No Way. Back in the closet you, you, you...homos.

    2 4.55%
  • GOD: Revelation 6:12 - And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

    0 0%
  • Its legal where I live. (Hawaii and Holland Answer)

    1 2.27%
  • I just don't have clue.

    0 0%
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Thread: Gay Civil Unions

  1. #1
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
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    Gay Civil Unions

    Currently a hotly debated topic in our nation, please give us your opinion.

  2. #2
    I say hell yes, If gay people want to have all the bennies and penalties of being in union then they should.

  3. #3
    Corn Burning Fool giff57's avatar
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    Originally posted by The Irish one
    I say hell yes, If gay people want to have all the bennies and penalties of being in union then they should.

    Interesting you mentioned penalties. I feel couples in committed relationships should get all the benifits heteros get. In thinking about the issue though, the cynic I am, the possibility came to mind of roomamates or such teaming up for familiy health insurance and other benefits. Are the penalities of civil unions enough to prevent this?
    ďAs soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fallĒ
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  4. #4
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
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    It could lead to disaster?

    I have the same concerns Giff, already we have a problem with illegal aliens marrying US citizens soley to gain entry into the country. I knew a gal in Miami who did that. She was a lesbian and she married a guy from SOuth AMerica and she got cash and never saw him again.

    I really don't think this would improve the state of marriage at all, it will add many more problems. Do we really want to invite Uncle Sam into OUr bedrooms so he can monitor the marriages to make sure they're on the up and up I think that's what will have to happen!

  5. #5
    Of course Uncle Sam needs to stay out of the bedroom and oh man don't get me started with all the gimmicks and scams illegal aliens/ resident aliens/citizens pull off to bring more family and friends into this country -and don't get me started on the POOH POOH PC attitude people have about illegal immigration. This civil union thing is going to be far from perfect and there are going to be all kinds of scams going on. Nevertheless, it's going to happen.

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Greenescapist's avatar
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    I think civil unions may be an acceptable compromise, but I think the just way to go would be to follow Canada's lead and let gays marry. If two people - whichever sex may the be, want to enter into a legal committment with each other - they should be allowed that opportunity. It would be real interesting to see if gays, once committed, actually have stronger and more successful (ie lower divorce, spousal abuse rates) "marriages" than heterosexuals. Let's give them the opportunity.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Plus Zoning Goddess's avatar
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    Heck, there are a lot of married folks who pretty much just function as "roommates" because they've grown apart/lost interest, whatever. If two people, whoever they are, are in love and want to be married, I say let 'em! Then, if necessary, they can go thru divorce hell just like the rest of us.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Queen B's avatar
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    I believe that two people that care about each other should be able to share all the rights and responsibilities that being married allows.
    If you are going to live in the same house with another living soul day in and day out you should be able to assist in their affairs should they need assistance.
    Isn't that what marriage is about, telling another soul that you care about them and trust them enough that you want them in every aspect of your life.
    It is all a matter of perspective!!!

  9. #9
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    they can go thru divorce hell just like the rest of us.
    This is one of the funny things in canada right now, and especially Ontario. Gays can marry, but the accompanying legislation still needs to be changed to allow them to divorce.

    My only concern is that with teh way our social safety net is (canada) it is going to end up costing me as a taxpayer and insurance payer way more cash (ie survivor benefits, spousal benefits)

    Will they get a year off on EI when their "punt dogs" (i.e. minature poodles) have puppies?
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  10. #10
    Cyburbian Plus PlannerGirl's avatar
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    Im all for folks of whatever orientation having the right to live their lives as one unit, having kids etc etc. After all more Joy/love whatever is a "Good Thing" (tm)
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

    Remember this motto to live by: "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO- HOO what a ride!'"

  11. #11
    Cyburbian
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    The government has to get it's nose our of people's bedrooms, and the Catholic Church has to get it's nose out of the independant goverments of the world.

    If people are free, they should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't restrict the liberties of others. And a homosexual civil union, IMHO doesn't restrict anybodies liberties.

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Originally posted by SkeLeton
    If people are free, they should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't restrict the liberties of others. And a homosexual civil union, IMHO doesn't restrict anybodies liberties.
    Well said.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    Originally posted by donk
    This is one of the funny things in canada right now, and especially Ontario. Gays can marry, but the accompanying legislation still needs to be changed to allow them to divorce.

    that will be the kicker... you can't get divorced......kinda like catholicism....

    Equality for all is a good thing.
    "Yeehaw!" is not a foreign policy

    Renovating the '62 Metzendorf
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  14. #14
    Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator NHPlanner's avatar
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    It should be a state issue, not a federal one. Each state makes it's own marraige laws, why should civil unions be different?
    "Growth is inevitable and desirable, but destruction of community character is not. The question is not whether your part of the world is going to change. The question is how." -- Edward T. McMahon, The Conservation Fund

  15. #15
    I am all for it. My ony question is: If these Civil Unions are passed on a state by state basis, would they be recognized in states that do not allow them? I think they should apply the same rule that applies to marriage; if you are married in one state, then every other state must recognize the marriage. The same should happen with Civil Unions.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Greenescapist's avatar
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    Originally posted by Repo Man
    I am all for it. My ony question is: If these Civil Unions are passed on a state by state basis, would they be recognized in states that do not allow them? I think they should apply the same rule that applies to marriage; if you are married in one state, then every other state must recognize the marriage. The same should happen with Civil Unions.
    Repo - you're right, this is a problem. Vermont (not Hawaii, the poll is incorrect) is the only state with civil unions and has had them for three years now, but they are not recognized in any other state. I have a feeling that as additional states pass civil union laws (or legalize gay marriage as Massachusetts might), more conservative states will immediately create legislation to make sure that the union is not valid in their state. I think there was already a test case for this in CT, where a gay couple who had been in a VT civil union tried to file for divorce in CT, but the court said they the state did not recognize the couple's relationship.

    NHPlanner made a good point that Bush and everyone is forgetting... marriage laws (and by extension civil union ones) are exclusively state issues. I don't think that the federal government can influence it in any way, other than symbolically like they did with the Defense of Marriage Act that was signed by Clinton in the late 90s.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    I don't care what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. But, I'm strongly against gay adoptions. I just don't think it is fair to the child. They are going to take serious abuse growing up.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    I'm all for it. As someone else pointed out, it'll be interesting to see the divorce rates and how they measure up to Hetero marriages. This could possibly be one of the things that the conservatives are so afraid of, being shown up at their own 'game'. In my eyes, so long as two people love eachother enough to put thier committment together like this, they deserve to have that r-ship consumated officially. The family is changing, there's no way around that anylonger. It's just a matter of society and religion catching up. I'm eagerly awaiting the Episcopal Bishops vote today regarding the Gay Bishop they may affirm. This would be, I think even better news.
    You're more boring than you know.

  19. #19
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    I say go for it. I donít really understand why someone would oppose this, even if you donít like it, it doesnít hurt you.
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  20. #20
    Cyburbian tsc's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike D.
    I don't care what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. But, I'm strongly against gay adoptions. I just don't think it is fair to the child. They are going to take serious abuse growing up.
    I would disagree... a social worker will probably scrutinize the couple even more so than if it were a straight couple. Children that come from homes with lots of love and caring will have the self-confidence to overcome whatever cruelty kids... and "adults" dish out at them. And,,, what could be worse than living in an orphanage? Every child wants to be part of a family...and I know children of gay parents.. and they are well adjusted great kids.

    Kids will pick on kids for having fat parents, mixed race parents, single parents, old parents, poor parents,,,, and no parents....
    "Yeehaw!" is not a foreign policy

    Renovating the '62 Metzendorf
    http://metzendorf.blogspot.com/

  21. #21
    Member moose's avatar
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    thank you TS -- I was going to go along that line too. If you outlaw gay adoption, you'll also have to outlaw naming your kid anything that sounds even remotely out of the mainstream. I have a friend who just named his daughter Ursula. Something tells me she's going to get a bit of ribbing when she gets to the third grade.

    Civil Unions are second class marriages, if you ask me. I realize that people are going to argue it to the bitter end, but I just don't see how allowing gays and lesbians to marry will destroy or erode the sanctity of marriage in any way shape or form. Of course, I am not a religious person, so I understand that I have a very different view of marriage than most (god was pointedly not mentioned at my civil ceremony). I just know that I will be just as married today and I will love my husband just as much as the day that gays and lesbians are allowed to marry (fingers crossed). I loathe how the religious right is treating marriage as some snotty club that only they're allowed into. By their standards, I (a heterosexual female) probably shouldn't be married either.

  22. #22
         
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    aren't there some federal benefits?

    Aren't there some federal benefits you straight people get when getting married? Like taxes? Estate stuff?

    I think there should be civil unions for everyone, straight or gay - the benefits and penalties of which should be bestowed by the state. Marriage should be an option for anyone who wished to consumate their union with a religious ceremony.

    I don't think it's right for the state to strong-arm religious institutions into marrying people whose lifestyle runs counter to their doctrine.

    I betcha 10 bucks when it happens, you'll start seeing across the board drops in domestic abuse in homosexual couples and lower std transmission rates.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian Emeritus Chet's avatar
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    Re: aren't there some federal benefits?

    Originally posted by madhi
    Aren't there some federal benefits you straight people get when getting married? Like taxes? Estate stuff?
    There is still a tax penalty for being married.

  24. #24
    Cyburbian Runner's avatar
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    I really don't have a problem with some form of "civil union"; just don't call it a marriage.

    One issue that may or may not matter: Marriages are already prone enough to failure. My understanding is that there is a high incidence of domestic violence among gay couples (as opposed to lesbian couples). Are these unions "workable" over the long run, or should we even care?
    Cheers,
    UrbanRunner
    :)
    _____________________________
    WWJJD
    "What Would Jane Jacobs Do?"

  25. #25
    Cyburbian Runner's avatar
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    Re: aren't there some federal benefits?

    Originally posted by madhi
    I betcha 10 bucks when it happens, you'll start seeing across the board drops in domestic abuse in homosexual couples and lower std transmission rates.
    The cure for a man prone to domestic violence is NOT to marry/civil union them. You CANNOT cure an abuser; the only solution is to leave as fast as possible!!!!

    Domestic violence continues, domestic violence escalates!

    Any other belief just perpetuates and facilitates the violence!
    Cheers,
    UrbanRunner
    :)
    _____________________________
    WWJJD
    "What Would Jane Jacobs Do?"

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