Raleigh/Durham, NC area

[scibax]

I had always thought that the area as a whole was considered the "Triangle" with "Triad" being another name for it. I never even really thought of Highpoint as an actual city truth be told because it looks like a massive conglamerate of subdivisions and shopping centers of the sprawl variety (my parents, grand parents, aunt and uncle all live in Highpoint).

I do not think of the region as being "Red Neck" in any way. You are right that the populous is highly educated on average compared to most locals. I also think that the people are generally kind and very willing to help out in any way they can. If you want to see red neck, visit southern West Virginia (McDowell and Wyoming Counties are among the WORST).

[passdoubt]

UNC and Duke carve out their own little interesting cultural niches in the Triangle, and the areas immediately around them are very walkable and liberal. UNC pays for free bus service for all riders in Chapel Hill and Carrboro (regardless of student status). Downtown Chapel Hill has a decent collection of retail, although every year another unique shop gets replaced by yet another overpriced restaurant or bar. Carrboro's heart and soul is the Weaver Street Market, a community co-op that's always full of hippies and students and dogs.

Durham has a lot of fairly interesting old neighborhoods which are unfortunately mostly ghettos. On the other hand you could look at this as a plus because some of the more transitional neighborhoods within reach of Duke's Ninth Street area are very affordable.

Outside of the areas in the universities' influence however, most of the Triangle is a bland mess of low-density sprawl and traffic marching to Wal-Mart as far as the eye can see. Research Triangle Park, the centerpiece of business, is, as the name suggests, a big suburban business park. You know you're in trouble when a single business park is more important than any downtown. Transplanted yuppies abound everywhere, especially in Cary, the huge creepily-mundane suburb next to Raleigh that people joke stands for "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees."

[scibax]

You described it better than I could passdoubt. The low density, architecturally boring, traffic choked sprawl that covers that entire area was the main thing that I saw. The dead and neglected downtown in Greensboro got my attention as well. Judging from what you have said, the same thing applies for other cities in the area as well. These things told me, no matter how good the economy is in that area, I have no interest in moving there.

[Kovanovich]

I have posted at much greater length on the Triangle -- and yes the Triangle is distinct from the Triad -- and don't wish to duplicate what I have already said. And I largely agree with what has already been said. I am not a defender of the Triangle. But Chapel Hill and especially Carrboro are quite liberal places (if that's what interests you). Durham has some neighborhoods with character, some of which could be recovered and rehabilitated, some of which are still pretty stable. Raleigh has some potential on the west side on the Hillsborough St. -- Glenwood Ave. corridors and some of the adjoining neighborhoods. But the key factor working against the Triangle, as has been pointed out, is that the center of employment is a huge business park. This is increasingly a traffic and planning nightmare, and can't be resolved by mass transit. This is all rather unfortunate -- the levels of education in the Triangle are relatively high and so one could have hoped for somewhat more forward looking solutions to these issues.

[BKM]

This is all rather unfortunate -- the levels of education in the Triangle are relatively high and so one could have hoped for somewhat more forward looking solutions to these issues.

Why?

Have you ever known any technologist, engineer (outside the civil or planning side of things), or computer programmer who has any interest at all in culture or the built environment outside the 'burbclave or the office park. That's what leads to success in the technology business: focus on the specialty at hand.

Look at Silicon Valley in California. Blehhhh! from a physical planning and architecture side

[eightiesfan]

Why?

Have you ever known any technologist, engineer (outside the civil or planning side of things), or computer programmer who has any interest at all in culture or the built environment outside the 'burbclave or the office park. That's what leads to success in the technology business: focus on the specialty at hand.

Look at Silicon Valley in California. Blehhhh! from a physical planning and architecture side

Me, BKM, me! But you are right, most of them could care a less.

[BKM]

Me, BKM, me! But you are right, most of them could care a less.

There's one in every crowd

I was being a somewhat polemical snob, anyway. I should have used the "winking" icon

[scibax]

It's not that I desire a more Liberal city, I just don't enjoy driving through miles and miles of architecturally dull box store sprawl to get to the center of town where there is some character. To Greensboro's credit though, it looks like it is going to do something about:

http://www.downtownstadium.org/2005home.html

Their downtown plan is on this site and should provide an interesting read.

Downtown technology park
Lofts
Retail
Museum
A new focus on the skyline

[cityboi]

Hello i'm new. i read comments about Greensboro and I would like to add my two cents. I think Greensboro has come a long way over the past 5 years. Its come from having a dead downtown to having the 2nd most vibrant downtown nightlife in North Carolina after Charlotte. I think if you havent come to downtown Greensboro in a while, you might be surprised. Greensboro is definatly has an under-rated downtown and is packed with people at nights with many night clubs, upscale bars, micro-breweries, restaurants a new baseball stadium and more. There are also great things to come for the center-city. Greensboro's downtown is booming these days and has completly turned around in just a few years. A Rum Runners bar is planning to open up in the old Kress Building. I hear that Raleigh has a Rum Runners too. Greensboro's Center-City park will open next year and the International Civil Rights Museum is now under construction. A $20 million 4 mile loop greenway around downtown Greensboro is being proposed and it will include recreational facilities, bike/walk paths, outdoor classrooms and gateways. There is also a section in downtown along the railroad tracks that will be turned into a linear park and will include a thin mile long mini-lake or waterway. A highrise federal courthouse is planned so Greensboro's skyline will be growing. A major 16-story tower will be under going a renovation that will include apartments,office space and a restaurant on the first floor. There is a major residential village planned next to the ballpark which will have over 300 condos, apartments, live-work units and townhomes. The village will also include a hotel, shops, a downtown grocery store ,offices and restaurants. You also have to check out the Southside neighborhood. There is so much going on in downtown right now and there are so many plans.

here is a rendering of Greensboro's planned downtown federal courthouse
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/imag...oncerthall.jpg

Southside downtown neighborhood (This downtown development won national awards)
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/bigart.jpg
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/orleans1L.jpg
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/orleans3L.jpg
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/orleansEL.jpg
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/courtEL.jpg
http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/mcadooEL.jpg
Hobbs Office Building
[url]http://ohenrybuilders.com/southside/s3th/hobbsEL.jpg[/url
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ss1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ss2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ss3.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ss4.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ss5.jpg

Here is Greensboro's downtown ballpark (First Horizon Park) capacity 8,000 people

http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition17.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition19.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition23.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition29.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition14.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/marlinsexhibition37.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/fhp7.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/fhp15.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/fhp4.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/ticketsale24.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_13.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_14.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_28.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_29.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_21.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_20.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_24.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_37.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_63.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_68.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_65.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_67.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_66.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/earlyapril1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch42.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch31.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch34.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch16.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch15.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch8.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch4.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch3.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch19.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/latemarch10.jpg

[cityboi]

http://www.downtownstadium.org/march12_22.jpg

video link of the 2005 Florida Marlins exhibition game (Florida Marlins vs. Greensboro Grasshoppers)

http://www.downtownstadium.org/100_0449.MOV

[jmello]

I still don't think people are quite getting it:

Triad = Winston-Salem, Greensboro and High Point

Triangle = Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill (as well as Cary)

[princessangry]

I love the triangle! very lovely area in cary specially. and the biking trails are awesome specially the tobacco trail.

I also think the shopping scene is ok could use more variety in some areas.

I love the southpoint malls and cary town center malls.

but crabtree mall is too crowded and hard to get to at certian times I hate driving down glenwood ave. traffic is bad most of the time. specially come 4-5:00!

they do have nice clothes at that mall though. too bad I don't like going there too much.

cary town center's got nice clothes too.

I go to southpoint basically If I want to chill out and have a nice shopping experince and mabye buy a couple lil things. but for massive shopping CTC is the best I think

but triangle town center I hear is an "old peoples mall" since they are behind on sales and clothing styles" so I hear from a lot of people. And I read reviews from citysearch and yahoo local that say that too. And a few on other sites say that mostly old people shop there.

[bocian]

I love the triangle! very lovely area in cary specially. and the biking trails are awesome specially the tobacco trail.

I also think the shopping scene is ok could use more variety in some areas.

I love the southpoint malls and cary town center malls.

but crabtree mall is too crowded and hard to get to at certian times I hate driving down glenwood ave. traffic is bad most of the time. specially come 4-5:00!

they do have nice clothes at that mall though. too bad I don't like going there too much.

cary town center's got nice clothes too.

I go to southpoint basically If I want to chill out and have a nice shopping experince and mabye buy a couple lil things. but for massive shopping CTC is the best I think

but triangle town center I hear is an "old peoples mall" since they are behind on sales and clothing styles" so I hear from a lot of people. And I read reviews from citysearch and yahoo local that say that too. And a few on other sites say that mostly old people shop there.

?????????????????????????

[jmyarsev]

I lived in Raleigh for 3 years, before living in Atlanta and after living in London and Prague...and I LOVE RALEIGH (I love the other 3 too). Most people don't appreciate that there are really 2 Raleighs. There's North Raleigh and the Cary area out west, which are total sprawlville and to be avoided, and then there's downtown Raleigh, which has many secret gems. I'll admit, if you're just visiting town, you won't know where to go, and, justifiably, you probably won't want to go back. But downtown, especially in the up-and-coming warehouse district, is composed of some gorgeous, partially decayed (if you like the decay aesthetic...I do), brick structures, housing some really eclectic wine bars, Chinese noodle restaurant/bar/dance club, gay clubs, antique shops, etc. Another part of downtown is So. Glenwood Ave, which exploded with trendy restauants and bars a few years ago (this is where you'll find the beautiful people). Then further up the street is the 5 Points area possessing a great old-time art house cinema, and a bunch of local restaurants (I think I even once heard that Raleigh has more restaurants per capita then any other American city...or maybe that was hair salons). And all around and in between these places are some really authentic old neighborhoods, crawling with Magnolia's, kudzu, and college professors. I used to live next to Cameron Village (in a 1930's whitewashed, brick apartment complex that looks like an old asylum...it was great!) and could walk to all these locales, a bunch of little art galleries, the grocery store, and little public gardens or parks about every half mile or so. Now, my info might be a little dated, since I haven't lived there in 2.5 years, but things were on the up and up then. I have really fond memories of Raleigh and its slacker/art/indie/southern/yuppie culture...not to mention a phenomenal college sports town.

[CosmicMojo]

I found Durham to have 2 extremes: the yuppie population associated with the universities and research triangle, and the old bubba culture, which is VERY racist. Most people I know who lived there had a hard time fitting in because they weren't a part of either culture. The research culture is very tight-knit unless you have a PhD and are a part of it and the "Dukes of Hazzard" culture is down-right scary. The traffic is horrindous (sp?).

Richmond is beautiful with great old architecture, but there are no great deals any more, all the historic houses have been snatched up and prices are skyrocketing. Even a shell in a so-so neighborhood can go for $100,000. The suburbs surrounding the city are growing fast, but they have all the characteristics of sprawl, no sidewalks, auto-dependent. Public transportation is in the city only. Richmond has a lot of varied entertainment for a city its size and housing prices regionally are competitive (considering they're pretty expensive everywhere).

Adding to answer the poster who said they didn't think Durham was very redneck. If you stray outside the college culture, that's what you'lll find. And if you're a white middle class person who doen't care, that's probable be OK. But I knew a mixed-race couple who lived there who'd lived many different places and Durham was the only place they were stared at (in the 1990s!), treated very rudely and even sometimes scared for their safety. The old uneducated culture is still there behind the yuppie culture.

[jmello]

I found Durham to have 2 extremes: the yuppie population associated with the universities and research triangle, and the old bubba culture, which is VERY racist...

Adding to answer the poster who said they didn't think Durham was very redneck. If you stray outside the college culture, that's what you'lll find. And if you're a white middle class person who doen't care, that's probable be OK. But I knew a mixed-race couple who lived there who'd lived many different places and Durham was the only place they were stared at (in the 1990s!), treated very rudely and even sometimes scared for their safety. The old uneducated culture is still there behind the yuppie culture.

You have absolutely, positively no idea what you are talking about! Here are the Census 2000 demographics for Durham city and county, NC (it's only gotten more diverse since then):

White
50.9%

Black or African American
39.5%

American Indian and Alaska Native
0.3%

Asian
3.3%

STOP SPREADING LIES!

[CosmicMojo]

You have absolutely, positively no idea what you are talking about!
STOP SPREADING LIES!

Don't call me a liar; get a grip child. I have a right to relate what I know just like you do.

I didn't say there weren't an African Americans in Durhan, I said they treat mixed-race couples antagonistically. My very dear freinds lived there for many years and it was very difficult. They were started at, ignored while waiting for tables and received threats. That's the truth.

[jmello]

Don't call me a liar; get a grip child. I have a right to relate what I know just like you do. I didn't say there weren't an African Americans in Durhan, I said they treat mixed-race couples antagonistically.

I live in NC now, have many friends in Durham and visit often. I am also one part of a mixed-race marriage. You are either grossly exaggerating or reporting events that occured decades ago. Central Durham is primarily African-American families and young university students, while south Durham is filled with relocated Yankee professionals who work in the Reseach Trangle. Most of the RTP is actually in Durham.

As with anywhere else, the farther one travels from the central cities the less college-educated professionals one will encounter. NC is no different. From my personal experience, I would argue that NC is much more racially integrated and tollerant at both the personal, political and professional level than both Boston and Philly.

[passdoubt]

Discrimination occurs everywhere. Yuppie neighborhoods, poor black ghettos, halls of academia, redneck enclaves, you name it. The fact that Durham is 40% black has little to do with the the climate toward mixed-race couples. In fact, African Americans are statistically the most likely group to be opposed to dating outside their race:

Gallup reported that black students faced the highest rates of resistance from their parents over interracial dating of any group surveyed. Among students who had dated interracially, at least 90 percent each of white, Hispanic, or Asian students said their parents acquiesced to their relationship. But only 59 percent of black students who had interdated said their parents were comfortable with their dating. Ludwig says such parental wariness is not unusual, given blacks' dimmer view of the state of U.S. race relations.

Alabama had a ban on interracial marriage on the books until 2000, although it had been unconstitutional since 1967's Loving v. Virginia. Blacks and whites polled in Alabama in 1998 were found to be more likely to support the ban if they lived in a rural place than an urban one.

There's no question that the South is the most integrated part of the country for African Americans. Census data shows us that. But I take issue with the claim that residential integration and tolerance necessarily go hand in hand. In the words of Dick Gregory, "Down South they don't care how close you get, so long as you don't get too big; up North they don't care how big you get, so long as you don't get too close." During the Great Migration, black people fled the Jim Crow South for the segregated inner cities of the industrial North. Whites abandoned these neighborhoods, partly because they didn't have the social structure necessary to excercise racist control over black people. This racial hierarchy for organizing and dealing with interpersonal intimacy had been long established in the South. In crude terms, the white establishment in the South knew how to keep black people in their place, while the North (inept at controlling the new outsiders) simply ran away scared. Settlement patterns reflect the legacy of these separate histories, not greater racial tolerance.

[jmello]

This racial hierarchy for organizing and dealing with interpersonal intimacy had been long established in the South. Settlement patterns reflect the legacy of these separate histories, not greater racial tolerance.

Granted, but in modern times this proximity allows for more cross-racial social connections than one would see in highly segregated cities.

[bocian]

Don't call me a liar; get a grip child. I have a right to relate what I know just like you do.

I didn't say there weren't an African Americans in Durhan, I said they treat mixed-race couples antagonistically. My very dear freinds lived there for many years and it was very difficult. They were started at, ignored while waiting for tables and received threats. That's the truth.

I live right on the border of Chapel Hill and Durham and have observed that the area is more racially-mixed and more open-minded and tolerant than any other places I have lived in that respect -- including Chicago, Boston, New Jersey, and Central Illinois. On my one single block, there live mostly mixed-racial couples, including my duplex's neighbors; public housing is one block away but I have not had any problems with anyone from there -- on the contrary, they are some of the nicest and great folks I have ever met; there are working -class people here, students, Lationos right across the street and university professors from Asia -- all on just one little block. The Triangle is FAR from being antagonistic towards mixed-race couples, definitely less so than any northern cities I know of (Isn't Chicago/Cleveland the most segregated city by race anyway) -- come visit my block (which is essentially a norm rather than an exception here ), and you'll see for yourself.

[Scranton Corruption]

I love the triangle! very lovely area in cary specially. and the biking trails are awesome specially the tobacco trail.

I also think the shopping scene is ok could use more variety in some areas.

I love the southpoint malls and cary town center malls.

but crabtree mall is too crowded and hard to get to at certian times I hate driving down glenwood ave. traffic is bad most of the time. specially come 4-5:00!

they do have nice clothes at that mall though. too bad I don't like going there too much.

cary town center's got nice clothes too.

I go to southpoint basically If I want to chill out and have a nice shopping experince and mabye buy a couple lil things. but for massive shopping CTC is the best I think

but triangle town center I hear is an "old peoples mall" since they are behind on sales and clothing styles" so I hear from a lot of people. And I read reviews from citysearch and yahoo local that say that too. And a few on other sites say that mostly old people shop there.

Cary, while one of the cleanest towns I had ever been in, seemed too new, bland, and just Stepford-Wives-type suburbia for me. No personality whatsoever. And not really cheap to live in either, despite the fact that jobs don't seem to pay all that much in that area.

[jmello]

Cary, while one of the cleanest towns I had ever been in, seemed too new, bland, and just Stepford-Wives-type suburbia for me. No personality whatsoever. And not really cheap to live in either, despite the fact that jobs don't seem to pay all that much in that area.

I agree, Cary is much too sterile. We were there last month and it looked like a colony of natalists. There were more babies than adults. Interestingly, Cary is held up by the NC planning establishment as the community to emulate.