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Thread: Black Out - lessons to learn??

  1. #1
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    Black Out - lessons to learn??

    Well most of Ontario, and several US states have been in a black out since around 4 this afternoon - the real question is, will anyone take note of this!! Many issues arise of course, the fragility of the power grid, the push for fosil fuels and the reluctance to face and deal with energy issues straight on, and acknowledge all of the other issues that impact energy consumption and use.

    Just wondering how long I will be sitting in the dark?????????????? and who I have to thank for it.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    I think that for a moment, people will realize on how truly dependent we are on electricity. It has come a long way since a key and a kite string in a storm. Today, we use it in everything that we do, and so much more that we do not realize.

    I also think that it shows the true courage of people. I spoke with a friend from NYC this morning, and he said that it was the coolest thing, because everyone was out on the streets, no one was freaking out. He and a few other people stopped at a local bar, and where sitting out on the side walk, talking with others, hanging out, and meeting tons of new people.

    The Amish are laughing there ass off right now.

    Finally, it shows how important a pedestrian friendly city was.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    I think this shows how our society is headed towards ultimate doom. In the aftermath of the coming armaggedon, only those who have planned ahead and have the resources will survive. It is time to cash in the pension and secure some land deep in the mountains where you can build a bunker and stock the supplies you will need to live. Do it now!

    On the other hand, this could just be a freak accident that caused some minor disruptions for a day, and demonstrates our resiliancy that we were able to handle it with little confusion or over-reaction.

  4. #4
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    Originally posted by michaelskis
    He and a few other people stopped at a local bar, and where sitting out on the side walk, talking with others, hanging out, and meeting tons of new people.
    [/B]
    it does make you wonder what happened to all of the beer that must have been sitting on the island of manhattan...it would be the worst mass-skunking of beer since, well, since a really long time ago before there was refrigeration...

    ugh, and something tells me that the milk and cottage cheese probably aren't quite so good anymore...

  5. #5
    My hope is that this will shut up all of the people who throw a fit whenever a power plant is proposed in their community.
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

    - Homer Simpson

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Originally posted by RoadRunner
    it does make you wonder what happened to all of the beer that must have been sitting on the island of manhattan...it would be the worst mass-skunking of beer since, well, since a really long time ago before there was refrigeration...
    I hate to burst your bubble, but beer does NOT go bad because of a days heat. Beer will only get skunky if it is in glass container that is NOT brown and exposing the abused product to sunlight.

    Otherwise it will just be very warm
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  7. #7
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Screw the power plants! This is a prime example of why we need something like small solar panel set ups at stratecig locations to be used for emergencies like this. Hmmmm, it's super hot(and sunny), and the power grid goes out....what do we do? Oh wait! we've got solar emergency back up! Flip of a switch and wer're golden. Granted, something like this would NEVER power an entire city, but it would keep enough running that life could go on with only minor inconveniences.

    yes this wouldn't work if it was cloudy for weeks prior to this, but my point is still there.
    You're more boring than you know.

  8. #8
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    With all of the lights out, I wonder if the people in the cities got a good chance to see the stars. We are still in the Perseid meteor shower this week (peaked Wednesday).

  9. #9
    Cyburbian jresta's avatar
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    my hope is that people will realize what energy hogs we are. Not only do we import most of our oil but we rely on Canadians for a lot of electricity too.

    I was thinking, well, now people in NYC have something in common with folks in Baghdad. A hot summer day with no lights and no A/C.

    Of course, New York was calm but i'm sure a week or so with no electricity might change things. how long would the blackout have to go on before people in the city started rioting? Maybe Poindexter could start a futures market for civil unrest.

    seriously, the first thing that would concern me in some long term power disruption would be a food shortage.
    Indeed you can usually tell when the concepts of democracy and citizenship are weakening. There is an increase in the role of charity and in the worship of volunteerism. These represent the élite citizen's imitation of noblesse oblige; that is, of pretending to be aristocrats or oligarchs, as opposed to being citizens.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
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    IMO
    Its the first big outage in memory--Since NY in 77? Or 65?. The grid will be fully back up in a couple of days. Why are we hysterical about this?

    Let's not make this an opportunity to wring our hands about American excesses or solar power or why everybody should live in a ped friendly city.

    We had one big power outage. Big deal.

  11. #11
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Originally posted by jresta
    my hope is that people will realize what energy hogs we are. Not only do we import most of our oil but we rely on Canadians for a lot of electricity too.

    I was thinking, well, now people in NYC have something in common with folks in Baghdad. A hot summer day with no lights and no A/C.

    Of course, New York was calm but i'm sure a week or so with no electricity might change things. how long would the blackout have to go on before people in the city started rioting? Maybe Poindexter could start a futures market for civil unrest.

    seriously, the first thing that would concern me in some long term power disruption would be a food shortage.
    1) Yup, were energy hogs, MUCH BETTER than living at the level of your average Etheopian!

    2) Wooh WAAAH! I feel so guilty for having plenty (said faciciously on my part)

    3) Gives canadians a chance to make money by selling power to us, or should they just be our backyard tourist station?

    4) Power is not the issue, without the power to run the water pumps, the city would become a disease ridden cesspool long before the food run out.

    5) Unless you are just a fat american with no sence to know you could live for weeks on 1/6 (1/10 for us fat americans)rations of tasteless crap. Really, it has been done before.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  12. #12
    Cyburbian michaelskis's avatar
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    Originally posted by gkmo62u
    IMO
    Its the first big outage in memory--Since NY in 77? Or 65?. The grid will be fully back up in a couple of days. Why are we hysterical about this?

    Let's not make this an opportunity to wring our hands about American excesses or solar power or why everybody should live in a ped friendly city.

    We had one big power outage. Big deal.

    I do not think that any one is getting hysterical about this. I find that it is the opposite. People are meeting there neighbors, communities are coming together, and although some do not have AC, things for a short time went back to a simpler, happier time, when people would talk to each other, and that interaction united people.

    I also think that this is an opportunity to ask ourselves, how we can improve things so something like this will not happen again. If we do not learn from the past, we can not move into the future.

    I do agree, that some people might be thinking more of this than needed, but it was the LARGEST black out in US history. Lot of people did not even think that something like this could happen. Right now, someone someplace who does not like the US, (Taliban) is thinking HEY, why didn’t we think of that.
    Invest in the things today, that provide the returns tomorrow.

  13. #13
    Cyburbian
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    The Taliban No longer exists Michaelskis. America saw to that.

  14. #14
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Originally posted by gkmo62u
    The Taliban No longer exists Michaelskis. America saw to that.

    Riiiiigghhttt. We'll let you go on thinking that, eh?
    You're more boring than you know.

  15. #15
    Member Wulf9's avatar
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    The Taliban still exists. It is no longer the governing power in Afghanistan. It is still influential in parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Originally posted by gkmo62u
    IMO
    Its the first big outage in memory--Since NY in 77? Or 65?. The grid will be fully back up in a couple of days. Why are we hysterical about this?

    Let's not make this an opportunity to wring our hands about American excesses or solar power or why everybody should live in a ped friendly city.

    We had one big power outage. Big deal.
    wow, your panties are in a bunch. Sleep on the street last night?
    You're more boring than you know.

  17. #17
    Cyburbian
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    Boxer-Briefs today my friend.

    I stand by my point. I am just cautioning that I do not think it reasonable to start blaming our lifestyle on this incident.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
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    Murphies Laws

    The dark side of applied angineering
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  19. #19
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    Black Out - lessons to learn??

    I don't think people should get their undies all in a twist. To phrase it most politically correctly - "stuff happens." People are all upset and want answers on how this happened. How about the fact that the system works so well that this sort of thing is such a rarity. It is summer -- temperatures are a tad warm, humidity is high, summer storms pop up unexpectedly, etc. It seems no one is too worse the wear from the experience. Emergency services handled it. People acted civilly to one another. Some well-off commuters got a little taste of what it is like to sleep on the street like the homeless.

    Sure, look it to way to prevent it in the future but don't overhaul the whole system. Chalk it up as an anomaly. Holy cow, what a tragedy? People actually had to go out of their houses and offices and interact with other people. We need to put a stop to that sort of thing. If we start doing that it could lead to all sorts of terrible things - like caring for your fellow man, slowing down in life's fast lane, lower cholesterol, and talking to your kids.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by gkmo62u
    We had one big power outage. Big deal.
    I couldn't agree more. However, all of the cause-heads tend to speak out when something like this happens. Mad Cow disease, the idiots at PETA lament the evils of animal consumption. A major traffic accident with multiple fatalities, the anti-car crowd comes out of the woodowrk. Floods, the anti-development people, etc...
    "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

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  21. #21
    Member Nemesis's avatar
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    Lessons to learn?

    1. Blame Canada
    2. Keep beer available
    3. Toronto is not the Capital of Canada
    4. John Candy is not a sherrif from Niagara Falls fighting the Canadians.
    5. Electrircal Generation and Power is owned by companies that some of us own stock in. Not controlled by the evil governments.
    6. Niagara Mohawk is owned by the British. Car guys know British Electrical Components are questionalble at best(Lucas).
    7. To may gamblers In Niagara Falls can cause problems.

  22. #22

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    I couldn't agree more. However, all of the cause-heads tend to speak out when something like this happens. Mad Cow disease, the idiots at PETA lament the evils of animal consumption. A major traffic accident with multiple fatalities, the anti-car crowd comes out of the woodowrk. Floods, the anti-development people, etc...
    In the interests of being positive, the lesson I get from this is one:

    None of this would happen if we hired more planners




    Just kidding.

  23. #23
    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    The real conspiracy is that Quebec was not affected. Must be part of their plan to screw the newfies(Churchill Falls) and secede from Canada.


    On a serious, and I know naive note, if people can be so civil to one another in an emergency situation, why can't we be that nice to each other all of the time. i saw a news report about a few restaurants and grocery stores feeding the people who were walking home for free and giving people water. I know there were people on the other end (price gouge) but every once in a while it is nice to see people acting like people to one another and not animals.

    [edit ]The edit was to correct all of the stupid spelling mistakes, need more sleep and less stress, brain not working.[/edit]
    Last edited by donk; 15 Aug 2003 at 1:13 PM.
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

  24. #24
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Originally posted by donk
    On a serious, and I know naive note, if people can be so civil toone another in an emergency situation, whay can't we be that nice to eachother all of the time. i saw a news report about a few restaurants and grocery stores feeding the people who were walking home for free and giving people water. I know there were people on the other end (price gauging) but every once in a while it is nice to see people acting like people to one another and not animals.
    amen to that brutha donk. I do find it funny that it requires an emergency for us to be civil and respectful to one another. Maybe we can live in a constant state of emergency .

    I'm just kidding , jeeez!
    You're more boring than you know.

  25. #25
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    To add...............

    Yes it was wonderful to see communities come together - citizens took it upon themselves to direct traffic, offer water to those who had to walk home. The stars in the sky last night were also quite spectacular, a rarity in the city, as well as the meteors.

    However, it is a lesson to be learned - our dependency, the out dated grid system and transmission lines etc. Broader lessons can include those I already mentioned - sure emergency services handled things, the community bonded, but....what does it all mean anyway??

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