The Creative Class, blah, blah, blah

[Howard Roark]

The next big thing?

Forgive the length, after revisiting my dissertation, and talking w/ sme friends I starting musing on this-

The timeline of ideas to "save the city"-

In the 50's and 60's "Urban Renewal" was preached as the saving grace for cities. We all know the unfortunate outcome of the funky blend of garden city and modernism, culminating in the 73 demolition of Pruit-Igo, modernism and the idea of science over nature probably ended then, though like punk rock there are those who refuse to believe that they are gone.

In the 70's there was a concerted effort to bring a human face “we had learned from our mistakes” Aptly named post modernism pulled discarded images from the garbage bin of history and stuck them on the sides of building, pedestrian malls were imported from Europe as solution to the sterile urban environs. The malls killed a lot of businesses that had been previously successful and by the late 80’s had been mostly removed, Post Modern architecture was eventually dismissed as fluff, though like its intellectual cousin, Post modern thought, still persists in society.

In the 80's and early 90's the large civic project took over, the new convention center, ballpark, highrise office building, arena, and starting in the mid-90's due to the success of the Goog in Bilbao, the art museum. The latter was even given its own name "Bilbao effect" though it has not shown up as planned in cities w/ similar arts projects like Valencia, Las Vegas, and Milwaukee (where Calatrava has design arguably one of the most spectacular museums of our time) The jury is still out on most of these projects, I know that ballparks did wonders for Denver and Cleveland, but tourism and conventions are down, and the years of ball game sell outs have diminished due to lack of “newness” and lackluster performance on the field.

The 90’s brought New Urbanism, and DPZ describes it as primarily a tool for "urban regeneration" not renewal, to be applied in urban areas in CNU literature. Though its short history shows that it has flourished in suburban environments, with little affect in historic urban areas so far. Obviously this is a maturing ideology so it will be some time before we can pass judgment on it, but it leads in to the…..

Creative Class, Florida's book was taken as gospel last year, everyone seemed to be talking about this elusive newly "discovered" strata in society that can propel an economy and takes its own DIY approach to urban regeneration. From a technical standpoint the environments that CC’ers seek is not unlike DPZ's traditional developments, but the big difference is that they are suppose to "honest" and not contrived in execution, as this class is suppose to crave "real" urban experience and has the ability t smell a phony. The philosophy moves away from the broader proletarian focus of the modernists, and the combined citizen and trans global elite approach of the large civic project, it may have the tightest focus of any design initiative I have heard of.

Question is, how do you plan and design an environment for a group that does not want anything designed? And if you can attract them, will they become active contributing citizens or is trying to create a CC environment something that can not be done? Is it something that either happens or doesn’t? Is concentrating on such a small group divisive? (Florida stresses that this group craves diversity, but it’s a diversity that is decided on ones own terms) And will the CC’ers really lead urban areas to new glory and economic letdown? Or are we setting ourselves up for an eventual let down?

[BKM]

This too, will fade. Richard Florida is very "1999."

Most of the work tasks performed by "the Creative Class" can easily be done by (often better) educated professionals and engineers in places like India and China. Already, animation is mostly done in Korea (and the higher tech CGI staff will be off-sourced soon, as well), software is written in India, and movies are made more and more in cheaper locations like Mexico and Canada. If all of the manufacturing is done overseas, why do we assume that all of the significant design functions will not also be off-sourced? Call centers? gone! Customer service-a college grad in India for $2.50/hour, or an uneducated work-to-welfare mom for $6.50/hour in the United States? There are a lot of very talented engineers and designers in Eastern Europe, for example, who will work for very little money.

You can't run an entire economy of 300 million people with a few fluffy artists and (due to consolidation) a few corporate headquarters.

[garethace]

I don't know exactly what is meant by this Florida guy and his theoreys, but i have just finished some deep digging into Post Modernism etc, and what it was, what it meant, what its original goals and purposes were. So if you want to delve into some of the material at this link here:

http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/u...c&f=8&t=000044

You are welcome to do so, or ask me any specific questions, about the design of the built environment. Anything, things that might be bothering you, i might be able to help with.

Brian.

[Cardinal]

There is a valid point behind Florida's theories. Places with attractive attributes attract talented people and those with money (capital). Progressive, open-minded places are more willing to listen to new ideas, which creates an entrepreneurial atmosphere. You can draw other, straightforward conclusion like this. It is valid to question whether you can change the character of a place, though. Yes, you may build bike trails, open coffee shops, and set up a technology business incubator, but will that really change the mindset of the people who live there? Probably not.

[michaelskis]

Ok… here is the MIKE theory. Take all the good points from CC and NU, combine them, toss out the bad stuff, and then, you have the start, of a positive way to revitalize a community. I believe in some of the principles of each. One component of NU is the addition of public art to a downtown… hmm, that is the same with the CC. Mixed use, mixed density, mixed ideas, mixed theories, and mixed drinks, that is the way to help a city.

No one “movement” can save everything… a mix of movements is the way to go.

[donk]

Cardinal posted

Yes, you may build bike trails, open coffee shops, and set up a technology business incubator, but will that really change the mindset of the people who live there? Probably not.

Definitely has not worked here. You can do all you want to pretty a place up, provide amenities and try to attract new people to it, but if the existing and dominant culture is not interested in these items you might as well throw money into the river.

[BKM]

you might as well throw money into the river.

At least somebody can fish that money out of the river donwstream and get some use out of it

[Howard Roark]

Good points all, the bottom line is that there is no magic bullet, but if you have ever read the cries of newspapers editorial pages you would tend to think that a great monument, civic project, or class of people could pull a city out of a funk. The Atlanta Journal Constitiution ran a front page multi-day series 2 years ago on why Atlanta needed a large landmark (ie; Arch, Space Needle, Statue of Liberty, Googenhiem) to define its self, this was jumped on by civic leaders and the ppulace, to date no design (or even clear objective) has risen. While a land mark or big civic building might be nice in Atlanta, I am sure they have bigger fish to fry. I have seen countless articles on developing districts for the CCer's, my concern is that this is just another fad, like the ballparks, Conv. Centers, etc...

The desire for greatness is were boosterizm is born, nurished by ego and visions of greatness it develop a life of its own, producing a project or planning direction that does not reflect the needs of the community.

Did Austin decide it was going to be a creative mecca? and how sustainable is that enviroment? the forces were all ready working there for years.

My personal view is that cities should build on their own stregths, not waste energy trying to contort theself's into something they are not.

[Howard Roark]

Originally posted by garethace
I don't know exactly what is meant by this Florida guy and his theoreys, but i have just finished some deep digging into Post Modernism etc, and what it was, what it meant, what its original goals and purposes were. So if you want to delve into some of the material at this link here:

http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/u...c&f=8&t=000044

You are welcome to do so, or ask me any specific questions, about the design of the built environment. Anything, things that might be bothering you, i might be able to help with.

Brian.

Interesting debate there, reminds me of our talks in undergrad on where style comes from.

Interesting note: Robert Venturi, and Johnson seem to have distanced themselves from Post-modernism, Venturi even claims that he never was a post-modernist.

Well Bob, its not modern, so what is it?

[garethace]

I think that you must put it all into the America of the 1950s. When Mies van der Rohe, held absolute sway over the 5 points of Architectural debate, and was a masterful Architect in dealing with the building contractor - on how to achieve the aesthetic you wanted to achieve - do'esn't always happen.

Whereas Venturi said things aren't always purely a directly communication with the building contractor. It can sometimes have different levels. I am sure you understand that very, very well indeed. But what people tend to forget nowadays, while Architects like Kahn, didn't build that much early on - they didn't become obssessed with building either when they eventually got something to their name. I mean, Kahn designed buildings and urban plans, because he thought that people would enjoy the places. Not because they expressed the glory of the Architect as loudly as Mies did.

Think of any service industry you know, and that is Louis Kahn - Mies didn't worry so much about his client, as much as the Architecture.

[oulevin]

From a competitive standpoint, Florida's ideas for attracting CC workers aren't the gospel they've been made out to be. Florida's concept of CC workers seem to go only to the faddish cities -- Austin, Bay Area, Seattle, etc. -- because their cultural scenes are well-recognized. If a city not known for its scene -- Boise, for example -- works overnight to improve its offerings, the CCers will still go to the Austins and Seattles. They don't research locations as much you'd think.

That is where I somewhat disagree with Florida's concept. He seems to define them too easily, when he readily admits their tastes are diverse. I think some members of the super-creative core and most of the other CC workers have more nuanced notions of what they want in a place -- close to home, waterfront, jazz scene, genuine people, warm weather, etc. Different people flourish in different settings.

Still, I think cities ought to improve those amenities that CCers crave -- not so much to attract new workers, but to keep the existing CC workforce there. And those who really care about the city WILL appreciate those efforts and push for more. That's why I think there's no joking when people say about my two hometowns -- Oklahoma City and Cleveland -- it will take a generation or two to overcome their national stereotypes, but action must start somewhere, and both will ultimately be better off for it.

[garethace]

I have some bit of knowledge what Seattle is about as a place, but could someone possibly explain the CC worker to me? Or even give me a link to what Florida has said. No rush, but whenever someone has a good link handy. Ta, ta.

[oulevin]

Creative Class workers are the artists, musicians, engineers, academics, IT people, architects, etc that compose the "super creative core", plus the lawyers, medical profesionals, and business, etc that solve complex problems. It's these knowledge workers Florida says that make or break a city's success. For more info, here's his link:

http://www.creativeclass.org/

[garethace]

Ah yeah! The creative people energising the economy theory of the future as oposed to commodities and farm produce in the past. Thankyou, imagine it has now become an urban theory too eh? !

Anyhow, when I move away from Dublin City, which was full of people all reading this book or that, listening to this alternative music or that, studying for this PHD or that, bookstores, web cafes and the que of people to register for night courses in the college last week was more that that for a football match!

I moved down the country to a quieter part for a while. A place where web cafes and reading trendy new books on everything was rare if non-existent. It was great for once, to look out at the green fields, talk to people, and not be worried about Stephen King's later novel or U2's latest album. Wonderful. OTOH, i posted this at another website, because I think the melting pots of ideas and CC make it too easy to gain knowledge without actually working for it. I worked in a knowledge community in Dublin in the late nineties, and i found the experience to be a mixed blessing afterwards. It gave you enormous confidence, beyond what you actually perhaps ought to have - and yeah, everyone around you wanted to believe you - i met several young 21 year olds who work there now, and they are the same. I still believe there is something a bit deeper - maybe not on the knowledge community extreme or the green grass of home extreme but in between.

I have just been thinking people, about a fair enough point raised in a thread by what? That not everything in life comes to you on a plate. It is funny I didn’t actually know what that poster meant by the statement. That is, until I was chatting to a very knowledgeable music type of individual. He asked me to explain Architecture to him, as best as I could. I proceeded into my normal long effort of what I think Architecture is/is not. But suddenly I drew back and said, lets wait a minute here – perhaps things don’t always come handed to you on a plate. So I suggested that I e-mail him a few hyperlinks, to some of my deeper discussions about the topic here at Archiseek.

I mean, isn’t there something in the effort of reading? Isn’t there some sense of achievement when you have finished that page, and worked yourself to understand something relevant or important? I mean, if I give it straight up on a plate in a pub, to some guy who thinks he knows everything (and possibly does too) about music, did that person have to work for that? No. Is information just tasty bite sized chunks now? A seudo, pre-processed version of the real thing, and are we all like puppies?

Here is another experience of knowledge wealth/poverty: Libraries

[jresta]

I haven't read Florida but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that - and take a look at what's going on in Columbia, SC - the brain drain will continue in cities that lack a certain QOL.

I think it's much less about getting some yuppy from Boston to move to Indianapolis and much more about getting some recent college grad, originally from Ft. Wayne, to stay in Indy instead of doing his job-hunting in Chicago.

as far as BKM's comments - jobs, manufacturing and otherwise, have been pouring out of this country for 50 years now. New, domestic jobs are created everyday. There's always something new to fill the void.

As has been the trend since the early 80's, young professionals are more often choosing to live and work in or around major cities. The second tier cities have a choice of whether or not to offer some of the basic ammenities that one would find in a city like San Fran or Philly. When 24 year old white kids from the Des Moines suburbs are dropping $800 a month to live in a shoebox in the dodgiest parts of Brooklyn it's not a bad idea for cities like Omaha and KC to try to capture that human capital, by fostering a local music/restaurant/bar/art scene, before it's gone for good.

Once these recent grads get a taste of the "good life" and marry someone from a completely different part of the country - Iowa just isn't "home" anymore.

[giff57]

Originally posted by jresta


Once these recent grads get a taste of the "good life" and marry someone from a completely different part of the country - Iowa just isn't "home" anymore.

Until they have kids to raise, then many come back for the safety and educational benefits of Iowa.

[BKM]

as far as BKM's comments - jobs, manufacturing and otherwise, have been pouring out of this country for 50 years now. New, domestic jobs are created everyday. There's always something new to fill the void.

I certainly hope so. I am increasingly skeptical, though.

What jobs are going to replace the high end manufacturing and now service jobs? Much of the country has NOT really replaced its economic base (see Dan's posts about Buffalo.) Is Trou, New York, Gary, Indiana, or the like really as prosperous as the past? There are more Troys and Garys than Austins or San Franciscos (with the $500,000 condos and 30% office vacancy rates) The average woprker has not really even recovered his or her earnings to the level of the 1970s. If all of the high end services are moving overseas, economic consolidation accelerates to the point that commerce is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands (hence, not as much room for the entrepeneur), what miracle source of jobs will be there?

Especially when EVERY town is a Buffalo-style branch office town. For example, my home town (Fort Wayne, Indiana) once had six locally owned banks. These banks had local executives, made many purchasing decisions locally, built local landmarks as office buildings. They had roots. There is today not a single locally-owned major bank in a metropolitan area of 400,000 people. Another mainstay of the local economy-Dana Spicer Axle (1500 jobs) is shipping all but 500 or so to Mexico. Lincoln Life Insurance was bought by another major multinational and is basically shipping its entire corporate headquarters to Philadelphia. Control is being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands, and I just don't see that as a positive thing.

I see the "global village" meaning a race to the bottom. Those Indian engineers are just as talented as the "creative class" engineers in the United States-and they work for $15,000/year.

I guess we can all work for WalMart, who is more than able to find the absolutely most desperate countries to buy their products from. That is the way of the global market, and pollyannish babblings about the creative class won't overcome the reality.

[mendelman]

Originally posted by BKM
I certainly hope so. I am increasingly skeptical, though.

......What jobs are going to replace the high end manufacturing and now service jobs? Much of the country has NOT really replaced its economic base.....
.......I guess we can all work for WalMart, who is more than able to find the absolutely most desperate countries to buy their products from. That is the way of the global market, and pollyannish babblings about the creative class won't overcome the reality.

Right on BKM

You have just solidified the way I have been feeling about the economy lately, but I just didn't know how to express it.

[tsc]

too many words for a monday....

[jresta]

BKM, please, I'll be the last one to buy into today's economic and development model. I know it's a race to the bottom, or rather, a race to capture the winners in the growing inequality game.

Interestingly enough, real wages for men have been stagnant (and falling as of late) since the late 60's. Women's wages have been growing steadily every year since the 50's - what happens when the twain meet? i digress. A growing Wal-Mart work force and a much smaller but growing creative class is not a coincidence.

All those engineers from India who make $15,000 a year in India realize they can make 10x that in the US and enjoy a much better quality of life. So they've all moved to NJ. Bell Labs, Bellcore, Lucent, CECOM, and big Pharma have proven very attractive to the South Asian set and as a result NJ now has the highest South Asian population in the country.

People with skills and an education can and do go anywhere in the world they want to. They want to go where the money is. The money wants to go where the talent is. Eventually they meet up in place like Florida describes. If Bangalore winds up replacing North Jersey or the Silicon Valley as the tech capitol of the world American engineers may start flocking there . . . if the ammenities are there and if the pay is right. Speaking of pay - White collar workers intuitively know when it's time for a union and when it's not. Witness the power of white collar unions in the automotive and aerospace inudstries.

At any rate, Iowa does have great schools. So does Philly, New York and Chicago. They just cost a little extra - and the people Florida is talking about have that little extra when the kids come around - if the kids come around at all. In terms of the demographic that Florida is talking about, there's probably not another group out there, retirees excepted, with a lower birth rate.

[BKM]

A Monday Morning rant, jresta.

I am in training, right now.

I am the NEXT KUNSTLER! BUY MY BOOKS AND HEAR ME ROAR! (Don't you know that my next career move is to become a Kunstleresque ranter )

You, of course, have many good points. I wouldn't want to live in a metropolitan area that doesn't offer many of the "Creative Class" amenities. I couldn't have gone on a tour of modern residential architecture and stopped off at an Indian fast food joint mid-tour in my home town.

My only caveat with your vision is the loss of local character and local ties. If everything is completely flexible and fluctuating, can we really develop deep communities? Is that yet another destructive aspect of modern capitalism?

[jresta]

Originally posted by BKM

My only caveat with your vision is the loss of local character and local ties. If everything is completely flexible and fluctuating, can we really develop deep communities? Is that yet another destructive aspect of modern capitalism?

It's not MY vision and like i said before, i haven't even read Florida so I can't really defend him. In the case of my city i'm not really interested in attracting the creative class. I'd just like to see the creative class stay. That's starting to happen but far too many are still packing their bags and hopping on planes to Chicago or New York.

I realize the nature of our economy accounts for much of the problem and neighboring cities competing with each other for scarce resources is not a way to solve the problem. So until we win the debate with the TINA folks what do we do about jobs and other resources?

P.S. - i encourage you to become a professional ranter. As long as you believe in what you are ranting about and you're good at it - what's the problem?

[BKM]

Sorry, don't mean to tar you with the vision-thing

Except for my addiction to driving and some yuppie things , we may agree on a lot of things, actually. And, there is certainly nothing wrong with working to make an attractive city that can attract the young (or encourage them to stay).

I just get a lit tired of "this is the solution to everything" planning and redevelopment cliches. Of course, I've not read Florida's entire book, either.

My favorite example that I've seen is Charleston, West Virginia. It has the failed "Pedestrian Mall," the "convention center" the cluster of faux-traditional townhouses, the heavily subsidized conventional suburban mall downtown. I got quite a chuckle out of it when I would drive from Grad School in Charlottesville to my homeotwn in Indiana

[jresta]

Ahh Charleston . . . a frequent stop-over on ski-trips when i live in NC. That place is just depressing.

It's an interesting point, the idea of the quick fix. In my professional planning experience (granted it's limited to the Delaware Valley) renewal schemes that involve spending a lot of money to attract "tourists" or other out-of-towners to spend money at your mall/amusement park/history park/etc are invariably cooked up by the business community. They send me emails on a weekly basis. http://www.snjdc.org
They're cooking up plans now to destroy the last corners of Cape May County - the rationale? Economic Development! Of course, they'll get the money for it and in 5 years when everyone is sitting in traffic on a mall lined strip on their way to the beach they'll blame "the planners."

The same thing is going on at the Camden waterfront. Is this being led by "the Planners"? Nope. It's being led by the Cooper's Ferry Development Association and State party bosses who fired the city government, installed a CEO and a CFO and moved the planning department to the basement. The $175 million recovery act puts nearly every penny into the Waterfront, the two universities and the two hospitals. The planning director was the first to point out that money like that would be better off in a revolving fund to cover rehabs of houses and schools and new construction and to get local businesses off the ground. The jobs created and the skills learned would be much more valuable in the long run.

on that note - I grew up at the shore, 100 miles north of Cape May in an area that had since been passed by for greener pastures further south. The Garden State Parkway expressed people right through our county. By the time I graduated from high school the decline had come nearly full circle (with the exception of Asbury Park). It took about 15 years just to recover from the damage done by the State when they closed the mental hospitals and boarded the outpatients in our stately, old hotels.

Anyway, anyone who had lived in the area for a decade or so could tell you that we were much better off without the tourism. Entrepeneurs and investors had to look for more permanent and stable industry and as a result the traffic wasn't as bad, crime was less, jobs paid better, neighborhoods were more stable, etc.

So, yeah, tourism/outlet centers/malls/convention centers are great for the business community. They're largely built with public money so that means big profits for the limited private investors and low wages and no benefits for the people who have to work in these places. Then even bigger profits in the apartment industry because no one earning that money can afford to buy a house with a permanent foundation.

Not to mention the fact that these places are especially prone to economic bumps and very few of them can draw a steady stream of visitors without continuously reinventing (more public money) themselves - unless they have some unique cultural asset like NYC, Chicago, DC or unless they have a unique physical asset like Asheville, Vail, Lake Tahoe, Key West, etc.

[Cardinal]

As an economic developer, I am continually depressed by people who see a single things as the solution to all of their problems. Especially with downtown revitalization, I think I have heard it all: transit stops, downtown malls, streetscapes, public bathrooms, one or another downtown busines....

The town I am in right now did the streetscape years ago. We finished a town square costing millions. Now, without the benefit of any market study, some have latched onto the idea that an art gallery would be the thing to revitalize downtown. Others want to spend the little resources we have on a consultant, thinking that they will actually find the retailers to fill the buildings - it does not work that way. Consultants will tell you what you need to do to fix problems, create markets, and attract them yourself.

It is frustrating, but there are a handful of people who understand there is no "big fix." My hope lies in them.