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Thread: Two Wal-Mart supercenters in one town?

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Plus
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    sure why not.
    We have a Sam's Club next to a Super Wal-Mart (at least the parking lots are not side by side)
    which are across a highway from a Greatland Target one direction and in another direction is an empty K-Mart.
    Oddball
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  2. #27
    My hometown of Tupelo has two Wal-Mart Supercenters. The funny thing about Wal-Mart is once it started making the Supercenters, it put the regular Wal-Marts out of business along with many of the independent retailers. The two regular Wal-Marts in town have long since been put out of business by the big SuperCenters. I think Tupelo had one of the first of the Supercenters, but now they're everywhere and it's almost nostalgic to come upon a plain ol' Wal-Mart.

  3. #28
    I go with market saturation. The only reason to build another store is to gain a larger portion of the grocery market. We have 2 Wal-Mart SuperCenters, with 5 more planned.

    An article in the local newspaper, from a retailing expert, said that we could expect to see 2 supermarkets close for every Wal-mart SuperCenter that opens.

  4. #29
    Crazy talk? Maybe not. Roughly half of Wal-Mart's Supercenters (groceries plus general merchandise) are in the 11 states of the Old South, leaving plenty of room for expansion in California and the Northeast. And Bentonville is getting creative about overcoming the political and real estate hurdles there. In January it opened its first inner-city Supercenter in the Baldwin Hills neighborhood of Los Angeles, a three-story affair with special escalators for shopping carts. All told, Wal-Mart will open roughly a store a day this year.

    As it expands outward, it's also filling in the gaps. "We've found that a smaller population than what we originally had thought can support a Supercenter," says Scott. "So you can put two Supercenters--Rogers (Ark.) and Fayetteville--roughly four miles apart. Same thing is true in Dallas, Houston, Atlanta." Within those four miles Wal-Mart is building new Neighborhood Markets, or "Small-Marts": smartly designed food/drug combos with conveniences like self-checkout, honor-system coffee and pastries, drive-through pharmacies, and half-hour film processing (this last based on a finding that 50% of women shoppers have an undeveloped roll of film in their purse). In Arkansas, Wal-Mart's even dabbling with stand-alone pharmacies. Throw in Sam's Club, with 46 million paid memberships, and walmart.com, with its mission of "easy access to more Wal-Mart," and you start to wonder: Is there any format Bentonville won't consider on its march to "saturation"? Well, yes, says Scott. "You're not going to see Wal-Mart casinos."
    - From Fortune Magazine, in their article "One Nation, Under Wal-Mart"

    Wal-Mart has found that they Supercenters can be profitable only a few miles apart. It's not stupid to place these stores so close together, because they are in fact increasing profits by doing so as well as increasing market share and saturation.

    Wal-Mart is not driving its regular Wal-Marts out of business. Usually when they close down, it is because Wal-Mart "moves" them to a new location to reopen as a Supercenter. In fact, your new Supercenters probably have the same store numbers and same associates as the older Wal-Mart stores.

    The reason that the person in NY has only one is because Wal-Mart has generally avoided urban areas. It has begun an aggressive attack on urban areas, and soon will construct stores in all of them.

    Originally posted by West Coast Canadian
    I don't think any planner can actually say they like walmart. God that place is annoying!!! Up here in Canada, they have grown, but are still fairly restricted in major cities. There was one planned for the City of Vancouver, but the city refused the development permit because of "traffic concerns". Thank-god for small mercies.

    On the other side of the equation, however, is CostCo, which is building an Urban Costco right in the downtown core - as the base to a major condominium development; their primary clinentele will be walk in and not traffic. Suffice to say, I like costco alot more than walmart.
    This makes absolutely no sense. Costco as a walk-in store? I don't know about their Canada branches, but in the US you can't walk out of a Costco with your purchases. It is a bulk warehouse store that doesn't even offer shopping bags!! Is it different in Canada?

    The other thing I don't like about walmart, as opposed to other big box retails like home depot or costco, is that they don't support smaller businesses. Home depot sells hardware and wood to small contractors at a low price - similarly, Costco provides goods to small businesses at a low price. Walmart doesn't doany of that except sell cheap goods. Take it or leave it, that's how I see it...
    What about their Sam's Club division -- rapidly growing and with nearly 600 US clubs. They are "in business for small business" and have a renewed commitment to helping small business succeed that beats out any other store.
    Last edited by NHPlanner; 29 May 2007 at 3:27 PM. Reason: triple reply

  5. #30
    Cyburbian jresta's avatar
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    I posted this in a different thread a while back . . .
    >>>>>>>>
    this isn't fishy at all. it's part of their strategy.

    Barnes&Noble employs a similar tactic.

    Let's say you live in Springfield. Wal-mart comes to the area one day and opens up a store about 10 miles down the road in Eastville.

    A year later they open up another small 10 miles in the other direction just outside of Westville.

    Walmart puts a hurtin' on both small towns and the pain starts to become apparent in larger downtown Springfield. The stores in Westville and Smallville are featuring big sales every week and the prices are generally lower than at other Walmarts

    After a few years when the Westville and Eastville business communities are obliterated and Springfield is hanging by a thread Walmart announces grand plans for a new mega-store to be located, where else? you guessed it!

    Springfield. The big store is located on the east end of town where land is cheap and parking is aplenty.

    The Westville and Smallville stores are shuttered and residents of these towns have no choice but to drive to Springfield to do their shopping. Oddly enough, prices go up, management says that it's simply the price of a more convenient store.

    The final nail in the coffin for local merchants is the opening of another supercenter on the west side of town. Much more convenient for those Westville folks.
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  6. #31
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    We have 5 walmarts (3 super/2 regular) all within 10 miles or less of each other. Plus, they have bought all the Winn-Dixie grocery stores in our town of 100K and are putting in WalMart Neighborhood Markets. There are also plans for at least one more super walmart to fit in somewhere, and possibly two. It's crazy!!! On this one stretch of road there will be 6 walmarts within 15-20 miles.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian KSharpe's avatar
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    I feel kind of sorry for K-Mart. There's no niche for them! Does anyone have a thriving KMart nearby?
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  8. #33
    Cyburbian The One's avatar
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    Well, I'll be a......

    Quote Originally posted by Rumpy Tunanator View post
    Wow, apparently this stores model has never heard of canablism. The 2 stores are going to be feeding off each other, as well as the other stores still standing.
    Leave it to the Rumpster to use one of my favorite words in a Planning related discussion! He stole my thunder once again!!:

    "canablism" The other white meat.....

    I'm always canablising things around the office place......computer parts, memo's, staff reports, letters, old interpretations, other people's ideas

    now.....what was the topic of this thread.....oh yeah....Walmart.......they pretty much suck.......
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  9. #34
    Cyburbian wahday's avatar
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    In the movie "Wal*Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices" a former executive notes that placing two stores in small towns is part of a deliberate strategy to put smaller competition out of business. It may cost a bundle to build the two stores and afterwards they may even close one of them. Still, by making themselves the only game in town, their net profits must be worth the efforts since there may end up being nowhere else to go. They did the same thing in Farmington, New Mexico. Now the primary businesses in storefronts along its quaint, turn-of-the-century downtown are payday loan companies. I counted 8 when I was there last and the whole Main Street is only 6 blocks long. True, its hard to link this decline directly to Wal-Mart, but its pretty darn depressing and they seem to be the only business in town not suffering.
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  10. #35
    Cyburbian cch's avatar
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    We've got 6 Super Walmarts in the Rockford, IL / Beloit, WI area, some within maybe 3 miles of each other, and 4 of which were built within the past 2 years.

    As for K-mart, one of our K-marts morphed into a Sears Essentials (after Sears bought them out), and I love that store. They never seem very busy, but they've got the best of sears and k-mart clothes, housewares and accessories, plus cards/stationary, toiletries, cleaners and all that stuff. And you can pick up any big Sears appliances, tools or electronics from there. I buy a lot of clothes for my little girl there. I think every K-mart needs to become a Sears Essentials.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian DetroitPlanner's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by KSharpe View post
    I feel kind of sorry for K-Mart. There's no niche for them! Does anyone have a thriving KMart nearby?
    We still have quite a few thriving K-mart stores in Michigan. It goes back to the good old days of three years ago when K-mart used to be based out of Detroit. The few Sears Essentials I've been in have changed back to K-mart stores.

    I'd agree with the poster who likes the stores. I always liked both K-mart and Sears stores. I do feel sorry for the independant Sears store owners in the small markets though, there is an independant Sears down the street from the K-mart and across from the 'new' Super Walmart and Home Depot in West Branch, MI. With K-mart now selling Craftsman and Kenmore it will only be a matter of time before this store can no longer make it.
    We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes - Fr Gabriel Richard 1805

  12. #37
    Cyburbian the north omaha star's avatar
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    Wal-Mart is building its first SuperCenter in the Arbutus area of Baltimore County on Alt. US 1. It was only a matter of time, since that area along Washington Blvd. was prime real estate for big box development.
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  13. #38
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    Two WalMart Supercenters (About 5 Miles Apart)
    Two WalMart Neighborhood Markets

  14. #39
    Cyburbian Trail Nazi's avatar
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    My hometown has two Super Walmarts, one regular Walmart, a regular Target, Kmart, and a Super Target within in 6-mile radius. Completely insane.

  15. #40
    Cyburbian hilldweller's avatar
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    Port St. Lucie, FL (pop. 140,000) has two Sam's Clubs and four Wal-Mart Supercenters either built or under construction.

  16. #41
         
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    This reminds me of Louisville, KY where I did my Masters work. there were Super Center Wal-Marts in almost every direction radiating out from the urban areas of the city. I lived in New Haven, CT for a bit and there was one Super Center Wal-Mart located approximately 15 miles away and two smaller version within relatively close proximity to each other.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    ...and so it begins.

    Well, ok, maybe most planners will agree that we don't like Wal-Mart, but some of us are willing to shop there.
    I shop at local places first, Target second. If you're going to be a big box store, do it with a bit of style. Planners should practice what they preach.

  18. #43
    Cyburbian jmello's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by pebkac View post
    I shop at local places first, Target second. If you're going to be a big box store, do it with a bit of style. Planners should practice what they preach.
    From a planning perspective (i.e. land use, transportation, etc.), how is Target any different than Wal*mart?

  19. #44
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by jmello View post
    From a planning perspective (i.e. land use, transportation, etc.), how is Target any different than Wal*mart?

    Not much, sure. But - Target does have a history of locating in some urban locations, and making design changes to meld with that urban environment. For example, there a quite a few multi-story Targets with parking above or below, whereas I don't believe Walmart has ever tried that. They also have several locations built in walkable neighborhoods (Minneapolis and Miami are two that I have been to). That would be my only plus for Target over Walmart - they have shown a willingness to work with local planners and try something besides the normal large single-story box with gigantic parking lot in front.

  20. #45
    Cyburbian TexanOkie's avatar
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    Kinda shady, but still legal--sometimes even helpful

    Wal-Mart's schemes to put their competition out of business may seem shady (and it is), one has to admit it's a genius play on market forces. In fact, their whole business strategy can be described as such.

    And while many times Wal-Mart is unwilling to work with planning staff on design schemes, I know of at least two examples where Wal-Mart has shifted the design of their store to meet community visions, especially aesthetically. Check out the store in northeast Round Rock, Texas (just outside of Austin) on US 79 and then check out the one in Colleyville, Texas (just outside of Dallas) on the John Carpenter Freeway (TX 114). Not only did these stores bend over backwards to please the community building standards, they also are amongst the top 5 donators to local charity causes in their areas.

    Does this negate the impact of putting so many mom-and-pop stores out of business? Perhaps not. But it shows some initiative of good intent that I'm sure planners could turn around and use.

  21. #46
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    Sorry a bit late, but I believe Stillwater, OK and Norman, OK both have 2 Walmarts. Both are University Towns. Stillwater has a population of just 40K+ and Norman a bit larger probably around 120K with students? I think Wally World is doing this in a number of areas. In mid-small sized towns USA... Saturate the market and reel in the dough? I think thats the plan, then shut one down? That said both in Norman have stayed open for a number of years now, so.... Not sure I understand there plan!

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Wal-Mart is a strong competitor that wants to grow, and will do it in part by capturing sales from other stores when they can. So do Penneys, Target, Kroger, Safeway, Kohl's, Ikea, Pottery Barn, Best Buy, Walgreen's, Office Max, Old Navy, and every chain store or independent business. If you think working with Wal-Mart on getting a decent looking store is difficult, try working with the local business that wants to get away with a metal shed and no landscaping. I have worked in many rural communities where the chains are the best looking businesses because their prototype is so much better than what the locals want to do.

    There is a beleif that Wal-Mart puts independent stores out of business. Wal-Mart may have been a contributing factor, along with many other chains early on, but I don't think it is all that true anymore. First of all, what really killed the downtowns we imagine we remember is the mall and a change in retailing. The mall took out the clothing, jewelry, and similar specialty shops. Groceries, drugs, furniture, and similar shops evolved to new, larger formats which did not fit downtown. Category killers like Best Buy and OfficeMax killed off the appliance and office supply shops. All of the shoppers were leaving town to go to the regional mall and its concentration of stores. Wal-Mart (and others) saw the opportunity from leaking sales, and they built their stores to intercept these people.
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  23. #48
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    There is a beleif that Wal-Mart puts independent stores out of business. Wal-Mart may have been a contributing factor, along with many other chains early on, but I don't think it is all that true anymore. First of all, what really killed the downtowns we imagine we remember is the mall and a change in retailing. The mall took out the clothing, jewelry, and similar specialty shops. Groceries, drugs, furniture, and similar shops evolved to new, larger formats which did not fit downtown. Category killers like Best Buy and OfficeMax killed off the appliance and office supply shops. All of the shoppers were leaving town to go to the regional mall and its concentration of stores. Wal-Mart (and others) saw the opportunity from leaking sales, and they built their stores to intercept these people.
    Walmart is now simply a contributing factor to putting local places out of business in larger cities, but early on they were the major player in small towns. For the first 30 years or so of Walmart's life, the company focused almost exclusively on small towns and avoided the large metros. These small towns (many times with only 15,000 people or so) didn't have malls that took the businesses out of downtown. The small towns didn't have category killers - they might have them now, but Walmart led the charge into small town America - one of the primary reasons that they became so successful. Walmart saw the opportunity to move into places where people would appreciate that they cared enough about their town to come there (whereas the "big" chains skipped them over for the malls in the big cities) and Walmart would have very little competition.

  24. #49
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by CJC View post
    Walmart is now simply a contributing factor to putting local places out of business in larger cities, but early on they were the major player in small towns. For the first 30 years or so of Walmart's life, the company focused almost exclusively on small towns and avoided the large metros. These small towns (many times with only 15,000 people or so) didn't have malls that took the businesses out of downtown. The small towns didn't have category killers - they might have them now, but Walmart led the charge into small town America - one of the primary reasons that they became so successful. Walmart saw the opportunity to move into places where people would appreciate that they cared enough about their town to come there (whereas the "big" chains skipped them over for the malls in the big cities) and Walmart would have very little competition.
    No, these small towns did not have malls or category killers. But the town next door, the county over, or a couple hours away did. In rural parts of the country people will drive 100 miles or more to reach these stores. The local men's clothing store or shoe store closed for exactly that reason. Those sales are still leaking from these cities. Wal-Mart may be there, but they have limited penetration into many channels.

    I don't mean to downplay Wal-Mart's impact. Especially when it comes to items like groceries, Wal-Mart can have an impact on businesses already in a community. When we tend to blame Wal-Mart for the fact that the clothing store, office supply stores, jewelry stores, and similar types of businesses have left downtown, though, I will disagree.
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  25. #50
    Cyburbian CJC's avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Cardinal View post
    I don't mean to downplay Wal-Mart's impact. Especially when it comes to items like groceries, Wal-Mart can have an impact on businesses already in a community. When we tend to blame Wal-Mart for the fact that the clothing store, office supply stores, jewelry stores, and similar types of businesses have left downtown, though, I will disagree.
    I agree with you. And even with groceries, Walmart has defintely had a big impact, but in many cases it has been more to kill off larger chains (or force store closings or mergers or employee lockouts/strikes) - since those chains helped to chase away the local grocers years ago.

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