Urban planning community

+ Reply to thread
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Why Whitey is going to hell - Race based cookie sale!

  1. #1
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075

    Why Whitey is going to hell - Race based cookie sale!

    http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...tion-headlines

    When I first read this I thought "I'd be pissed if I was black and saw this. What an insult". Then I mulled it over a bit and came to the conclusion that the conservative group's right to peacefully assemble and address a grievance with the government was shat upon by the University. This was nothing other than the University cowering under the JACK BOOT of PC. It is PC to silence those that are conservative. If the freaking KLAN can march in a Jewish Neighborhood and Jessie Jackson can break tax laws and extort corporations with impunity why can't some white boys sell cookies and charge evil whitey more? The sound of the ACLU running to defend them is deafening, no?

    60 years after WWII and academia is still chock full of cowards.

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 1998
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,468
    This really should be a why someone is going to hell thread. Offensive? YES! But that group does have a right to be incredibly stupid. If anyone has a right to complain, it should be the white males. They were ripped off with those prices, but then again, that's the whole point of their protest - to sympathize with the plight of the "poor" white male.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  3. #3
    Cyburbian Jen's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,460
    It is a pity we don't know how the group was approaching their bake sale experiment, was it conducted as a social inquiry, were they surveying attitudes of students who bought cookies was it to open a channel of communication? Or were they hitching a ride on a pet cause they beef about vehemently in private, and saw an opportunity to get "in the face" of the non whites on campus, for some show of bullyism or something?

    Their premise is provacative and as a method of speech perhaps it should have remained open, but if their method was mostly to make noise and garner negative attention that was turning violatile, campus officials prob could see no choice but to intervene.

    Matt Houston, a 19-year-old sophomore, called the group's price list offensive.
    "My reaction was disgust because of the ignorance of some SMU students," said Houston, who is black. "They were arguing that affirmative action was solely based on race. It's not based on race. It's based on bringing a diverse community to a certain organization."
    And how does charging white skins more for a cookie address this point?

    all around it was an ineffective sale IMO.

  4. #4
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    Here is my questions to the masses: Is it soooo hard to believe that someone that holds a politically conservative set of views would actually like to see the equality of all races? Is it soooo hard to believe that a conservative may think the true path to equality lies in actual equality and policies that refelect that? Is it sooooo hard to believe that I'd like to see all my black, brown, red, yellow, queer and tangerine brothers and sisters living the good life, perhaps even having more stuff and money than me?

    We aren't the party of George Wallace (D). For every Trent Lott (R) there is a Jessie Jackson (D). For every Al Sharpton (D) there is a David Duke (R). We can point fingers all day long. Liberals have just as many "haters" as the old Southern Republicans. The past is littered with them on both sides of this issue.

    What I am saying is that there are thinking conservatives that want to change America into a melting pot again and not a collection of waring tribes. The way to harmony is a society where their are no official (government sanctioned) distinctions based upon race.

    Panderella, I never said we should feel sorry for white men. That is just as insensitive as me feeling sorry for someone based upon their skin color. We sould be way past that by now as a nation. I'm looking towards the future - join me.

    (sorry bigots)

  5. #5
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cyburbias Brewpub, best seat in the haus!
    Posts
    2,672
    Listen to the terms "Offensive", "Insult" and "Ignorant" and how they are used. The real subject nobody wants to address is "white guilt" and issues related to it.

    Yup, no doubt about it, there is injustice in society based on really odd standards. Worse here in the US than any other place or time? NOT A CHANCE.

    There is vested interest in maintaining victum status. Without victum status, problems and issues take on a different perspective and the solutions also change. The problem with this group of Young Republicans is that they are mining for victum status themselves.

    SCREW that, being a victum destroys your ability to compete. You can't compete if you arn't "capable" of it. Let the victums whine about who got screwed worse. Victums ask for handouts, permission, have given up the will to fight and have placed thier fate in other peoples hands.

    Being granted victum status is a pyrrhic victory. The prize is the loss of control. Whoever wins it no longer has power and must recieve permission from others. They become victums who will be so greatfull for the pitance they are allowed to have.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  6. #6
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
    Registered
    Aug 2001
    Location
    The Cheese State
    Posts
    9,981
    "My reaction was disgust because of the ignorance of some SMU students," said Houston, who is black. "They were arguing that affirmative action was solely based on race. It's not based on race. It's based on bringing a diverse community to a certain organization."

    Sorry, but race is central to the question of affirmative action, regardless of whether you favor it or not.


    EG - You are so right. It is not a question of whether we want equality, it s a question of 1) how do we define equality, and 2) how do we achieve it.

  7. #7
    Cyburbian Big Easy King's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Overlooking the Quarter
    Posts
    1,358
    The price scale is offensive because it assumes that African-Americans, Hispanics, and any other race of color can't afford the $1.00 cookie or expensive items in general. They knew that this action would trigger reactions, inflammatory and otherwise.

    However, on a positive note it's these types of actions and subsequent reactions that make us strive for a better quality of life and a more unified interaction among all races and creeds in this great country, our democratic society.
    A person who strives is one who thrives. It's GREAT to be THE KING!!!

  8. #8

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468
    Actually, Big Easy King, I question how actions like this lead to better interaction between the races. It just leads to doctrinaire, self-righteous activists screaming insults at one another.

    Still, if you are going to allow "Students in Support of the Intifada" to hold (often violent) protests, then these (wackos??) need to be allowed their freedom of speech, too. Its pretty simple.

  9. #9
    Cyburbian Big Easy King's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Overlooking the Quarter
    Posts
    1,358
    Originally posted by BKM
    Actually, Big Easy King, I question how actions like this lead to better interaction between the races. It just leads to doctrinaire, self-righteous activists screaming insults at one another.
    I'm only saying that it makes us strive for better interaction and quality of life.
    A person who strives is one who thrives. It's GREAT to be THE KING!!!

  10. #10
    Cyburbian
    Registered
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Santiago, Chile
    Posts
    4,767
    US universities and colleges are allow to do racial discrimination for admissions?!?!?!?! WOW that's "fair"...

    What is this 'affirmative action' you speak of?

    Sure I support racial eqquity and all and of course what those guys did was wrong, what's the point in doing these inflamatory acts.. is it because they want to be on TV and the media? or is it actually idealism?

  11. #11
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    Originally posted by Big Easy King
    The price scale is offensive because it assumes that African-Americans, Hispanics, and any other race of color can't afford the $1.00 cookie or expensive items in general.
    That is one way of looking at it. I saw it as lowering the standards for inclusion in the exclusive cookie club based upon race. The logical jump to employment policy, SAT's and law school admission standards is not a large one.

    They knew that this action would trigger reactions, inflammatory and otherwise.
    Just like MLK did in Selma. Both of these protests were morally right and seek to eliminate a system of government of discrimination. It is just that one is more acceptable 30 years later. We will look back and see this was also right in 30 years (and no one will look back from atop a SHT)

    The California Govenor's Race Cookie Race-Based Logic Model
    A cookie for Arnold Swarzenegger: $1.50
    A cookie for Cruz Bustamante: $1.00
    A cookie for Gary Coleman: $0.50
    Having a rational and civil discussion of government policies on race in a democracy: Priceless

  12. #12
    Cyburbian Big Easy King's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Overlooking the Quarter
    Posts
    1,358
    Originally posted by el Guapo
    That is one way of looking at it. I saw it as lowering the standards for inclusion in the exclusive cookie club based upon race. The logical jump to employment policy, SAT's and law school admission standards is not a large one.

    Just like MLK did in Selma. Both of these protests were morally right and seek to eliminate a system of government of discrimination. It is just that one is more acceptable 30 years later. We will look back and see this was also right in 30 years (and no one will look back from atop a SHT)
    ...and I agree with your points, Guap. Well stated!
    A person who strives is one who thrives. It's GREAT to be THE KING!!!

  13. #13
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cyburbias Brewpub, best seat in the haus!
    Posts
    2,672
    Originally posted by el Guapo
    Having a rational and civil discussion of government policies on race in a democracy: Priceless
    Try having that discussion when the topic of reparations comes up. Nothing rational there. There is a profit motive.

    It is linked to the sale of those cookies. Its a valid point to say look, this is the perception of "one" value of people in society. Multiple values start getting really sticky.

    That view by one value is jaundiced. Had it been housing prices the cost of a cookey would have been reversed, with whites paying least and aftrican americans paying the most.

    I can think of some other issues that are race based. Like who is in jail and for what. What about cultural values and how they play into issues like education?

    I wish I had the answeres
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  14. #14
    Cyburbian Planderella's avatar
    Registered
    Dec 1998
    Location
    NOLA
    Posts
    4,468
    Originally posted by el Guapo


    Panderella, I never said we should feel sorry for white men. That is just as insensitive as me feeling sorry for someone based upon their skin color. We sould be way past that by now as a nation. I'm looking towards the future - join me.

    (sorry bigots)
    I was being completely facetious with my remark, hence the .

    What I found offensive was the price scale and the fact that the prices were significantly lower for the minorities, including the blacks. I can look at it in two ways: being the bargain hunter that I am, I can say whoo-hoo look at this break I just got OR I can say how dare they imply that I cannot afford the higher price simply because I'm black (or a minority).

    Personally, I chose the latter because I have been put on the defensive when it comes to affirmative action. For just about all of my life, I have been the only black in classrooms, boardrooms, offices, meetings, etc. Most of the time, there has usually been someone who questioned me for being there or implied that I was there only because of some government program. My own arrogance allows me to believe that I am where I am today because I worked hard to get there, but maybe at the same time, I filled someone's quota.

    There are no easy answers to this, but I agree with you (el Guapo) to an extent - the only way to achieve harmony is to have a society that has no distinctions AT ALL, whether it's from the governenment or individuals.

    It's a tall order for all of us to follow.
    "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

  15. #15
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    Pandy (term of endearment),
    I come to this point of view because I see the hurt in my wife's eyes when ever anyone makes a comment like "you're a shoo in for the job because you're a brown woman." These people mean well, but she is tired of explaining that no one ever gave her anything. She had to fight for everything she has earned just like the rest of us. Just like you. It hurts when people assume you were just given your postion. And it destroys your credibilty with your peers to see others of your race that are in postions over their heads because of AA. White guys have affirmative action too. It is called rich daddies. Even if the kid is tallented, he will never be taken seriously in his daddy's factory.

  16. #16

    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Solano County, California
    Posts
    6,468

    Another perspecitive

    I shared this story with a co-worker whose opinion I respect, even if I don't always agree with it. He had a very eloquent response, which I will quote, while noting that I think he goes a little far. He does make some points:

    "This incident, and similar ones like it, are typical of the smarmy, white, upper-middle class collegians who constitute 99% of the "conservative" campus and young republican organizations. What's probably more distressing is that they felt it was much more important to make their point about their disgust with affirmative action, than it was to show even the slightest degree of sensitivity
    towards the minority students who were the object of their condescending prank. Unfortunately, that is the exact way these people will go about their civil conduct for the rest of their lives.

    Indulge me for a second. I know a little about SMU (my grand-dad graduated Methodist Theological Seminary there in the 1920's, and we always kept up with the school). It's student body is about 80% Anglo protestant, and the rest evenly split Asian/ Hispanic and black. Imagine finding yourself in a similarly-mixed crowd of 80% black, and 20% Anglo, let's say the Oakland Jazz Fest at waterfront park. And during the festival, the vendors started calling attention to your race, which is obviously in the majority, and started making jokes about charging you a different price for beer and food. It wouldn't feel like a harmless joke, would it?! Now try imagining the humiliation of experiencing it in the place where you are hoping to achieve and rise higher on the socio-economic ladder of success, and having someone from the Conservative Students ASSociation implicitly point out that "you don't belong here"."

  17. #17
    Cyburbian Rem's avatar
    Registered
    Jun 2003
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,530
    Originally posted by el Guapo
    .....What I am saying is that there are thinking conservatives that want to change America into a melting pot again and not a collection of waring tribes ...
    I apologise in advance if this post is taking the thread off topic.

    el Guapo refers to the melting pot. This is a term that now has a very bad rep. in Australia, mainly because it became seen as immigrants being grouped in the melting pot and white Australia doing the stirring. It became a term of patronisation.

    It has been replaced by a subtley different, and I think a better term. That being diversity. It implies that rather than being rendered down to a mix of cultural elements, it appreciates the differences between cultural groups and exerts no pressure to conform. It concentrates on acceptance of differences and celebration of diversity. I appreciate this may not be a useful distinction in the US where there is relatively recent history of racial violence, but I wanted to offer the comment.

    There is a risk of segregation under a diversity approach and there are certainly sizeable groups that complain immigrants should conform and are affronted by different cultural practices, the use of different languages etc. I think it is relevant for Australia given our past lack of engagement with aboriginal Australians, a majority european ancestry and an expanding asian and north african/middle eastern population.

  18. #18
    Cyburbian Duke Of Dystopia's avatar
    Registered
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Cyburbias Brewpub, best seat in the haus!
    Posts
    2,672

    Re: Another perspecitive

    Originally posted by BKM It wouldn't feel like a harmless joke, would it?! Now try imagining the humiliation of experiencing it in the place where you are hoping to achieve and rise higher on the socio-economic ladder of success, and having someone from the Conservative Students ASSociation implicitly point out that "you don't belong here"." [/B]
    All of below said in a commenting or questioning voice.

    The seeds of doubt about ability in this situation were sown when a program based on skin color was instituted. There was no way to get around that. It is the flaw in the idea of affirmative action.

    The humiliation comes from the fact there is no way to "prove" the detractors are incorect, that skin color is THE major factor in your presence. What if your hopes and dreams are built on a flawed premise, do you really belong there?

    I don't agree with the Young R. Have always found political students of all stripes annoying and dogmatic. My disagreement is that if you have the talent, you will make it regardles of affirmative action. But we live in a have it now society so going to a community college is considered fifth rate to any ivy league school. Dispite the fact that recent studies suggest it is the amount of effort you put into studies, not the school that has the effect on your future earning potential.

    GODS forbid we are offended by somebody. Can't have that.

    Lets see, if you have small hands and feet must mean you suck as a lover to right? Blondes have more fun right?....... Its ok to be arbitrary unless someones feelings are hurt.
    I can't deliver UTOPIA, but I can create a HELL for you to LIVE in :)DoD:(

  19. #19
    Cyburbian el Guapo's avatar
    Registered
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    5,075
    BKM
    - Yes in some ways your pal is correct, but his point changes nothing I said. His atribution of qualities to people he doens't know sounds a bit presumtious though. Remember when you and I eventually agreed that diversity of opinion was found on all ends of the political thought spectrum?

    On the other hand, how many lefty protests are worried about hurting my feelings? It kills me to see a flag burner do their thing. But they also have a right to make a point. Even a point I hate.

    The smarmy papmpered white kids will grow up eventually like we all do. But we''ve all seen stupid behavior on all sides of the color barrier and I personally am ready to get on with life in America. I'd like it to be a life where we all get treated based upon the content of our character, not the color of our skin. <= I bet that hurt some readers here, my using that line. If it hurt your feelings that a guy that voted for W used that line then you need to examine your heart, because that is where the hate lies.

+ Reply to thread

More at Cyburbia

  1. Replies: 0
    Last post: 16 Aug 2012, 2:00 PM
  2. C is for Cookie
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 38
    Last post: 07 Aug 2012, 9:12 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last post: 23 Jan 2009, 6:25 PM
  4. Write A Fortune For A Fortune Cookie
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 22
    Last post: 07 Oct 2005, 1:40 PM
  5. Planning Commissioner Cookie Monster
    Friday Afternoon Club
    Replies: 5
    Last post: 17 Jul 2001, 1:24 PM