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Thread: Bistate/biprovincial metropolitan areas - where is the good side?

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    Cyburbia Administrator Dan's avatar
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    Bistate/biprovincial metropolitan areas - where is the good side?

    In some metropolitan areas that cross two (or more) states, there is often one side of the state line that is considered more prestigous, with more affluent residents, better schools, better planning, and so on.

    Of the metro areas I know of that cross provincial or state lines, the better side is considered:

    Chicago: Illinois (vs Indiana / Da Region)
    St. Louis: Missouri (vs Illinois / East Metro)
    Washington, DC: Virginia (vs Maryland and the District proper)

    Kansas City is strange. Kansas City, Missouri is considered much nicer than Kansas City, Kansas, but the Kansas side suburbs (Overland Park, Prairie Village, Leawood, Olathe, Lenexa, etc) are considered much nicer than the Missouri side suburbs (Independence, Liberty, Gladstone, Raytown, Blue Springs, etc).

    IMHO, of course.

    What about other bistate metro areas, such as Cincinnati (Ohio / Kentucky), Ottawa (Ontario / Quebec), Jacksonville (Florida / Georgia), Omaha (Nebraska / Iowa), Portland (Oregon / Washington), or the Quad Cities (Illinois / Iowa)?
    Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell. -- Edward Abbey

  2. #2
    Cyburbian Plus
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    How about these other bistate metro areas:
    Philadelphia: Pennsylvania (vs Camden, NJ)
    Louisville: Kentucky (vs Indiana)
    Evansville: Indiana (vs Henderson, KY)
    Oddball
    Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?
    Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
    Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
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    No. Just some parts wake up faster than others.
    Broke parts take a little longer, though.
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    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Re: Bistate/biprovincial metropolitan areas - where is the good side?

    Originally posted by Dan
    ...or the Quad Cities (Illinois / Iowa)?
    Er, 'fraid there is no good side there.

    Detroit/Windsor... Windsor?

  4. #4
    hmmm, how about NYC with its NJ and CT suburbs...

  5. #5
    Great thread -- very interesting issue.

    Here's a new region for consideration -- Baltimore/ SouthCentral PA. While most of the metro area is in MD, sprawl is pushing Baltimore north into York County, PA. Its actually an interesting example of good planning by Baltimore County which has kept most of its development near the city. Of course developers got around their growth areas by skipping over the county and building further north on 83 in York.


    ***************************************************************
    A funny aside about this -- met my husband while attending Towson University. On our first date we went to lunch after class when he said, "Lets go for a walk in my neighborhood -- you'll love it its a nice quiet place." Of course star-eyed I eagerly accepted. Can't imagine how horrified I was when he took me to this place in the middle of cornfields less then 1 mile north of the MD - PA line. Yep, good anti- sprawl, pro-smart growth girl married into a family that lives in Anywhere, USA!!! My in-laws are two professionals who work in Baltimore, drive an hour plus to their home in the country, and curse the township every time a new development is approved in their area or their taxes are increased. Of course, being the dutiful daughter-in-law (really you couldn't ask for better in-laws), I just smile and nod my head when they complain about these things.

    Sorry for the digressing--
    ****************************************************************
    Kathie

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    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    First date... and you still married him?

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    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Memphis = Tennessee, Mississippi and Arkansas.

    Good side? No good side. The Mississippi suburbanites (Olive Branch area) hate the people from the “city”, the Arkansas “West Memphis” people think they are part of the “city”, and people in the city hate the suburbanites in Mississippi, Arkansas and to the north and east in Tennessee.

    The negative: they compete for markets (like civic centers and regional malls) thus creating even worse sprawl and chaos.
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

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    Cyburbian
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    None here yet... mabye in a few decades more, Santiago will merge with Valparaiso (they're in two different regions). The Three main Megalopolis we have here are: Santiago (which has a lot of subdivisions), Valparaiso/Viña del Mar and Concepcion/Talcahuano.

    When I lived in the US I lived not far (in distance) from Manhattan, but in NJ. My parents worked like three blocks from our apartment( and I went to a school about the same distance, but in another direction), so we barely went to NYC.

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    Cyburbian biscuit's avatar
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    Charlotte, NC has sprawled down I-77 into York County, SC, but you really can't say which side is nicest to live in because everything in both states is so new.

    From my experience in Southwest Virginia, the Tennessee side of Britstol was considered more desirable than Virginia.

  10. #10
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Originally posted by biscuit
    [B]From my experience in Southwest Virginia, the Tennessee side of Britstol was considered more desirable than Virginia.
    Well, duh, of course the TN side is more desirable. everyone loves a winner. GO VOLS!
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

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    Cyburbian
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    In Memphis TN, AR, and MS

    The city of Memphis has the wealthiest and the poorest areas in the region, and is the area's only urban area.

    Shelby Co. TN has the wealthiest suburban areas.

    DeSoto Co. MS has cheaper prices and newer sprawl than TN suburbs.

    Crittenden Co. AR is looked down upon as being a traffic-choked truck stop, and as being relatively poor.

    Like many are prone to do, many suburbanites indeed look down upon the city as some high-tax, profligate-spending, crime-ridden ghetto.

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    Cyburbian donk's avatar
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    After living in windsor, I doubt it is considered the nicer of the two, more like the little runt puppy.

    Ottawa / Hull. Definitely Ottawa, Hull is just a suburban nightmare, that uses the langauge thing to prosper.

    In Maine there is Lewiston-Auburn, not sure which is the "better place"

    On the border here, there is Calais and St. Stephen. I'd give the edge to St Stephen, but not by much.

    Moncton has Moncton/Riverview and Dieppe. Dieppe is one of the fastest growing towns in Canada (doubled in less than 10 years) All three are holes (sorry holes)
    Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

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    Cyburbian DecaturHawk's avatar
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    Re: Re: Bistate/biprovincial metropolitan areas - where is the good side?

    Originally posted by Cardinal
    Er, 'fraid there is no good side there.
    Regarding the Quad Cities, I gotta disagree with ya, Card. No, they're not perfect, but a lot is going on, especially on the Illinois side. Rock Island has done a lot to redevelop their downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods. Moline has been successful in drawing tourism to the John Deere Pavilion as well as to the Mark (the new arena). East Moline has a new redevelopment plan and is considering some new urbanist development. On the Iowa side, there's less going on, but there's no better place to watch minor league baseball than in John O'Donell Park right on the riverfront (provided it's not flooded, of course).

    Some other bi-state metros:

    Fargo-Moorehead (Fargo has a nicer downtown, Moorehead great neighborhoods and college campuses, but Fargo gets the nod)

    Duluth-Superior (Duluth by a landslide, although Superior has some incredible forested parklands within the city limits)

  14. #14
    Just curious about what level of inter-state regional coordination and collaboration there is in these areas?

    Seemed from my experience in economic - development that collaboration stops and the competition for luring a new business (or moving an existing business) starts. The director of county's economic development agency in the Philly region once told me that regionalism is limited to interstate boundaries and it was war to attract development and businesses onto the PA side. The EDC in York County tried relentlessly -- spending a great deal of public $$$ and personnel time -- to lure a Baltimore County manufacturer 25 miles north.

    Do they really think they are creating new jobs for their community by doing this? Maybe they think people won't commute across state lines to go to work???

  15. #15
    Member steveanne's avatar
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    Da Region. Along with Indiana and Illinois, can we include southern Wisconsin as well? Seems like Kenosha and surrounding areas are getting a huge influx of Chicago area commuters. And in a few years, can we add Iowa to the list? I have made some friends from Iowa who tell people they are from the Chicago area. That bothers me, but also amuses me on some level.

    Completely off-topic for you Chicago Region folks or folks familiar with the area:
    If you ever want to start an argument that will last for weeks, years, or possibly a lifetime, challenge the fact that either:

    a.) The '85 Bears were NOT the best team ever
    b.) Ryne Sandburg is NOT good enough for the Hall of Fame
    c.) Walter Payton is NOT the best running back ever

    -or-

    Pick a player from the following list and say they weren't that good:

    Ron Santo, Jim McMahon, William Perry, Mark Grace, Neal Anderson, Richard Dent, Bill Cartwright, etc.

    Chicagoans get heated about their professional sports. I think it is hilarious.
    Last edited by steveanne; 30 Sep 2003 at 2:46 PM.

  16. #16
    Cyburbian Cardinal's avatar
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    Originally posted by steveanne
    Chicagoans get heated about their professional sports. I think it is hilarious.
    Yes, there is a good deal of laughing that can be done about Chicago's professional sport teams. By the way, did you notice that the Packers whipped the Bears for the tenth straight time in Soldier's Field?

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    Cyburbian Rumpy Tunanator's avatar
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    I don't think this counts, but I know I lot of people from Ft. Erie, Ont. that either work or go to school in Buffalo. As for their view of our side, I know alot of people withing the local t.v. viewing area in canada always think Buffalo is burning down because thats all the news media shows. Damn the media...
    A guy once told me, "Do not have any attachments, do not have anything in your life you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner."


    Neil McCauley (Robert DeNiro): Heat 1995

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    Cyburbian ilikefish0's avatar
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    I'm afraid we've left out one of the more obvious examples: Texarkana. Anyone got an opinion on texas side vs. arkansas side?

    Also, doesn't Portland have sizeable sprawl into washington? Oregon side would seem better to me.
    Off to Zanzibar--To meet the Zanzibarbarians!

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    Cyburbian Greenescapist's avatar
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    Although I really like DC as a city, I lived in Northern Virginia for two years and prefered that to the other suburbs in Maryland. If I ever moved back to that area though, I would definitely find a place right in the city, maybe near Cleveland Park or Woodley Park if I could afford it.

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    Member steveanne's avatar
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    Originally posted by Cardinal
    Yes, there is a good deal of laughing that can be done about Chicago's professional sport teams. By the way, did you notice that the Packers whipped the Bears for the tenth straight time in Soldier's Field?
    I did notice. Lots of co-workers talking about the Cubs instead. It's like the Bears have ceased to exist after the 85-86 season. Apparently the Super Bowl Shuffle was sending out subliminal messages instructing fans to relive each day as if it were January, 1986. Some broke free of the mind-altering a few years ago. But the harsh reality that the Bears really aren't that good has hit them. That noise you hear at night up in Wisconsin that you thought were coyotes... Millions of people dressed in Urlacher jerseys sobbing. Very sad, really.

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    Member japrovo's avatar
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    Originally posted by ilikefish0
    Also, doesn't Portland have sizeable sprawl into washington? Oregon side would seem better to me.
    Our dirty litle secret is out??? Its all about choices I guess. Washington passed a growth management act a couple of decades after Oregon so check back in another ten years or so. Anyway, Clark County Washington is great. I think a big problem they suffer, or maybe it is a benefit depending on your politics, is that Washington state sometimes seems to view them as someone else's problem and for obvious reasons they are only a part of what goes on in Portland to a certain extent---but unhappy commuters stuck in bridge traffic aide there appears to be a lot of good will among the politicos---we are all hard at work being one happy bi-state region.

  22. #22
    Hmm, somebody already declared PA the winner in the Philadelphia area, but I'd maintain that the New Jersey suburbs are more affluent and present a better lifestyle than the PA suburbs. Hell, PATCO fare is much cheaper than SEPTA subway or train fare to West Philly or the PA suburbs and that includes a river crossing! Plus the PATCO line runs 24 hours, while SEPTA trains and subway lines end at midnight.

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    Cyburbian Hceux's avatar
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    Originally posted by donk
    After living in windsor, I doubt it is considered the nicer of the two, more like the little runt puppy.

    Ottawa / Hull. Definitely Ottawa, Hull is just a suburban nightmare, that uses the langauge thing to prosper.

    In Maine there is Lewiston-Auburn, not sure which is the "better place"

    On the border here, there is Calais and St. Stephen. I'd give the edge to St Stephen, but not by much.

    Moncton has Moncton/Riverview and Dieppe. Dieppe is one of the fastest growing towns in Canada (doubled in less than 10 years) All three are holes (sorry holes)
    Donk, I don't think that Lewiston-Auburn or Moncton/Riverview/Dieppe is located at any border between states or provinces. Instead, both of these areas are both within a state and a province, respectively.

    But, I do give you credit that these communities do not effectively work together as a community like how 11 (or so) communities (Toronto, Etobicoke, Scarborough, East York, York, North York, and many others) all merged into Metropolitian Toronto. Although I must admit that the Metropolitian Toronto was an effective idea, it has become outdated and out of touch with the sprawling suburbs in the Greater Toronto Area.

    A note about Moncton. Dieppe is like Hull in the sense that both communities use the French language to distinguish themselves from the Anglophone communities. Dieppe does a bit better than both Moncton and definitely Riverview, although they are all as what you called them "holes."

    Here are a few communities that I can think of that are border towns or those that are between states and provinces:
    - Lloydminister SK and AB
    - Vancouver BC and Bellingham WA (it might be a stretch to say this, but it's pretty close)
    - Cornwall, ON and Massena, NY (Prior to 9-11, people from Cornwall crossed the border to buy gas in Massena just because it was cheaper often times.)
    - Manchester and Nashua NH and the suburbs of Boston, MA
    - Portsmouth NH and Kittery ME
    - Sault Ste Marie, MI and Sault Ste Marie, On (the Soos!)
    - Fort Frances ON and International Falls Minnesota
    - Duluth and Superior
    - San Diego and Tijuana - is that a stretch?
    - and there's a tiny town that sits on both Canada and the US border. There's even a house that have a living room on the US border and the rest of the house in Canada. I'm not sure what's the name of the community is. Can anyone fill me in?

    Interesting topic!

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