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Thread: Are we safer after 9-11 and the Patriot Act? (As inspired by BKM's prediction)

  1. #26
    Cyburbian Budgie's avatar
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    No.

  2. #27
    Cyburbian otterpop's avatar
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    I would say we are no safer. Of course I live in the relatively isolated and insulated Interior North West. Not much fear of terrorist acts here. The only real national security threats for Montana have historically been home-grown (The Freedmen and the Unibomber). I rarely travel by air, so the new security and travel restrictions have been only an annoyance I've twice dealt with. Some anglers have been denied access to dam sites under the Patriot Act, but even that is being relaxed to allow better recreational access. There has been some heated discussion about the public library refusing to comply with the Patriot Act, though that is happening all over the country.

    I was amused by a fellow I know who, following 9/11, told me he was going to start carrying a gun because of the terrorist threat. I couldn't help thinking, "Man, you are a musical instrument repairman who lives in Helena Montana. 1) What are the chances you will even be a victim of a terrorist act, and 2) what good will a gun do you, anyway? Terrorists uses big hammers - planes as bombs, car bombs, maybe poisoning water supplies or poison gas, etc. I doubt a .357 would do you any good." He would be no safer than if he start carrying a mandolin!.

  3. #28
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike D.
    No we're not safer. And no, I don't want a Mosque in my neighborhood. Sorry Muslims and all other Middle Eastern men ages 15-90. I don't feel safe around you, because your religion preaches "jihad" and your religion tells you to reign "fire upon my people."
    My boss is muslim you [personal attack deleted].

    I wonder how long until the "muslim man" replaces the "black man" as our society's collective boogyman.

    Mod Note - Yes, this is a sensitive issue, but personal attacks on other users will not be tolerated. Tranplanner

  4. #29
    Cyburbian Budgie's avatar
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    Hang on, I changed my mind. I am more safe, because my local fire department has bulked up their arsenal of fire fighting, HAZMAT, bomb disposal and WMD gear. The money is flowing like tobacco settlement dollars. It's a feeding frenzy.

  5. #30
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Originally posted by jordanb
    My boss is muslim you [personal attack deleted].

    Oh well that changes everything then! Now they don't scare me, I just hate them.

    [Mod Note - Sorry to hear you feel that way. Racist attacks will not be tolerated on these boards, so be careful how you phrase your opinions. Tranplanner]

  6. #31
    Cyburbian
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    I'll have to go with Jordanb this time. Not all Muslims are Jihadists. The extremists and fundamentalist muslims are.
    It's like comparing regular Catholics with fundamentalist catholics that blow up abortion clinics and kill homosexuals... Both extreme groups are terrorists, but the regular groups are not.

  7. #32
    Cyburbian jordanb's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike D.
    Oh well that changes everything then! Now they don't scare me, I just hate them.
    So you're admiting you're a racist on a public forum. Good idea.

  8. #33
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    nope....just admitting that i hate you and everything about you.

    [personal attack deleted]

    [Mike and Jordan - you've both been warned now. Lay off the personal attacks. Tranplanner]

  9. #34
    Cyburbian El Feo's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike D.
    nope....just admitting that i hate you and everything about you.

    [personal attack deleted].
    Can't we all just get along?

    You shouldn't piss him off, jordanb, the whole world knows you don't carry now.

  10. #35
    Cyburbian
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    I think the question begs a different answer. None of us have any idea whether we are safer today. Safer from what? Are we safer from Jet planes flying into buildings? Maybe. Are we safe from a white box truck pulling up to the Fedeal Building with a dirty bomb in it? I have the same or more faith in law enforcement today than I did before September 11?

    El Guap has it right. There are crazy, hateful people out there that we cannot be competely safe from, thats the bottomline. There is no absolute here.

    I have said this before, the patriot act does not scare me. much of the added law enforement tactics require a judged approval. can accept that.

    The fact is that 19 20-30 something muslim men DID fly planes into buildings killing innocents and to ingnore that is irresponsible.

    Finally Wulf suggested that the best means against terrorism is a "broad coalition." Not exactly sure how that would have stopped 9/11.

  11. #36
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Um, no.

    I don't really worry for us normal, 'merican folk. I worry more for the immigrant who are here and are productive 'merican citizens. They're the ones getting put into a nice tidy box(MikeD). The marketing done by the Bush administration has been great, they've got a ton of uneducated, reactionary blockheads all amped up, ready to blow non-'merican sh!t up.

    One of the most disturbing things I've seen is one of said URB's driving around in his jacked up, Chevy pick-em-up with the de-reguire loud pipes with 6 foot flags sticking in the holes of his sidewalls on the bed of the truck. Been that way since 9/11 too. Year round.
    You're more boring than you know.

  12. #37

    I come off as a paranoid idiot but I'm not.

    The only way I wouldn't be terrified about the future is if I completely ignored international (read Arabic) opinions about the US. It's very grim and it only takes a few people with organization skills and know how to make something really bad happen. Having said that, I refuse to live in fear or be controlled by fear.

  13. #38
    Member Wulf9's avatar
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    Originally posted by gkmo62u
    Finally Wulf suggested that the best means against terrorism is a "broad coalition." Not exactly sure how that would have stopped 9/11.

    I think the question was are we safer AFTER 9/11. Anyway, that's the question I answered.

  14. #39
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    You guys are so afraid of not being politically correct and nice to everyoin you simply refuse to observe the facts, thank God you are in planning and not in law enforcement.

    So to insure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, we should not be allowed to profile people. Airport security will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips and Medal of Honor winning former Governors.
    Let's pause a moment and take the following test.

    In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
    a. Olga Corbett
    b. Sitting Bull
    c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
    a. Lost Norwegians
    b. Elvis
    c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
    a. John Dillinger
    b. The King of Sweden
    c. The Boy Scouts
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
    a. A pizza delivery boy
    b. Pee Wee Herman
    c. Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

    In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard by:
    a. The Smurfs
    b. Davy Jones
    c. The Little Mermaid
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

    In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
    a. Captain Kidd
    b. Charles Lindberg
    c. Mother Teresa
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
    a. Scooby Doo
    b. The Tooth Fairy
    c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks
    of dynamite left over from the train job.
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
    a. Richard Simmons
    b. Grandma Moses
    c. Michael Jordan
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
    a. Mr. Rogers
    b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
    c. The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
    "Mustapha the Merciless"
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were murdered by :
    a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
    b. The Supreme Court of Florida
    c. Mr. Bean
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
    a. Enron
    b. The Lutheran Church
    c. The NFL
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

    In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
    a. Bonny and Clyde
    b. Captain Kangaroo
    c. Billy Graham
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    To ignore the facts is just stupid.

  15. #40
    Cyburbian H's avatar
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    Mike D I am giving you a round of applause right now. (for that last post)
    "Those who plan do better than those who do not plan, even though they rarely stick to their plan." - Winston Churchill

  16. #41
    Cyburbian Seabishop's avatar
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    As far as Arab Americans in everyday life people just need common sense. There's a happy medium somewhere between the guy who beats up random gas station owners and the guy who's too PC to be suspicious about the Arab guys next door who seem to be working in a basement lab all night.

    There's also a difference between an Arab guy being delayed for an extra 10 minutes at an airport (not so bad) and the same guy being held at Guantanamo for no reason (bad).

    As far as racial profiling, I just feel like its not a good law enforcement strategy to take that seriously . The Muslim world is huge and not all Islamic terrorists are going to look "Arab." There are militants from the Far East, Africa, and America (John Walker Lyndh). Terrorists would be wise next time to recruit non-Arabs. It reminds me of the DC Sniper incident when profilers and the media convinced everyone to look for a white guy loner because it fit the profile.

  17. #42
    Cyburbian Wannaplan?'s avatar
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    I think the point Mike D. just made was that it is unsafe for Americans to engage in international travel. The point of my response is not to be rude and disrespectful to the victims of the following atrocities, but only to point out that Mike D's presentation of the "facts" and his supposed point fail to address safety on the homeland.

    1)
    In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
    a. Olga Corbett
    b. Sitting Bull
    c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    2)
    ]In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
    a. Lost Norwegians
    b. Elvis
    c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    3)
    During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
    a. John Dillinger
    b. The King of Sweden
    c. The Boy Scouts
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil

    4)
    In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
    a. A pizza delivery boy
    b. Pee Wee Herman
    c. Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    5)
    In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard by:
    a. The Smurfs
    b. Davy Jones
    c. The Little Mermaid
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    6)
    In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
    a. Captain Kidd
    b. Charles Lindberg
    c. Mother Teresa
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    7)
    In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
    a. Scooby Doo
    b. The Tooth Fairy
    c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks
    of dynamite left over from the train job.
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    I don't know too much about this one. Was this the one that crashed in Scotland?

    8)
    In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
    a. Richard Simmons
    b. Grandma Moses
    c. Michael Jordan
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Okay, you have a point on this one.

    9)
    In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
    a. Mr. Rogers
    b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
    c. The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
    "Mustapha the Merciless"
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

    10)
    On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were murdered by :
    a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
    b. The Supreme Court of Florida
    c. Mr. Bean
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Point well taken.

    11)
    In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
    a. Enron
    b. The Lutheran Church
    c. The NFL
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    This one is different than the other ones. In this one, the U. S. is the agressor. Why even include it?

    12)
    In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
    a. Bonny and Clyde
    b. Captain Kangaroo
    c. Billy Graham
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


    Not on U. S. soil.

  18. #43
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    US Embassies are US soil.

  19. #44
    Cyburbian Rumpy Tunanator's avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike D.
    In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered in his wheelchair and thrown overboard by:
    a. The Smurfs
    b. Rumpy Tuna
    c. The Little Mermaid
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

    To ignore the facts is just stupid.
    Hey how did I get included in this one?
    A guy once told me, "Do not have any attachments, do not have anything in your life you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you spot the heat around the corner."


    Neil McCauley (Robert DeNiro): Heat 1995

  20. #45
    Originally posted by Mike D.
    US Embassies are US soil.
    Minor thing: all embassy grounds are sovereign, whether US or not.
    Je suis Charlie

  21. #46
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    Yeah, Embassies are US soil, but Wanigas' point is still valid MikeD. They were international events. I'm not one to be PC either, but I also have respect for other persons, arab, indian, chinese, redneck, native, rumpy tuna's, whatever. You seem entirely too happy to lump EVERYONE into your snappy, tidy little box that says:

    ALL ARAB MEN ARE TERRORISTS.

    Sorry, you're wrong on that one bub.

    Lets not forget, the US antics certainly haven't helped these matters over the last 30 years. All administrations are to blame for this.
    You're more boring than you know.

  22. #47
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    You ever carried body parts in a 5 gallon bucket? Come tell me how you feel after you do.

  23. #48
    Cyburbian martini's avatar
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    What's your point? That I'll hate every aspect of "X" race if I do? Sorry you had to do that....I'm sure it sucked. My point still remains though. You're putting everything into a box that it won't fit into.
    You're more boring than you know.

  24. #49
    Cyburbian Jeff's avatar
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    Final Reply To This Thread

    Obviously,

    I do not hate all Arabs. That would be really dumb of me to state that. However, I do reserve the right to be very skeptical, afraid, fearful, more observant of Arab men because of their history.

    If you feel you deserve any further explanation, please PM me, e-mail me, whatever.

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