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Thread: what is the deal with bowls? (as inspired by "rubbing it in...")

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    Cyburbian ilikefish0's avatar
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    what is the deal with bowls? (as inspired by "rubbing it in...")

    As the bowl season stumbles into disarray, I wonder how some of these bowls got to where they are?

    For instance, how did the Fiesta Bowl become a top tier bowl?
    It started much later than the other three of the big 4, and until very recently it was a very minor bowl. Compare this to the Cotton Bowl, one of the most storied bowls. Its origins correspond closely with the orange, sugar, and rose, and, until bcs-times it was considered one of the better games. Now it is one of the second-tier bowls. Go figure.

    Also, the sun bowl. It is one of the older games, but it never achieved the standing of its age-peers--any thoughts?

    (Sorry if this is too heavy for the FAC)
    Off to Zanzibar--To meet the Zanzibarbarians!

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    Cyburbian SlaveToTheGrind's avatar
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    I think the BCS sucks. And no, I'm not a USC fan. All the money goes to the big shools who are guaranteed to play in the BCS games. Smaller schools have a very small chance of playing in the big bowls. In my opinion, 16-team tournament should be played with ranking based on the coaches and ap polls. This would give a much more fair chance. But the large schools will scream no. Why? They don't want to be beat by a no name school like what happens in during every college b-ball tournament. If they lose to a BCS school, they can justify the loss.

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    Cyburbian DecaturHawk's avatar
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    Re: what is the deal with bowls? (as inspired by "rubbing it in...")

    Originally posted by ilikefish0
    (Sorry if this is too heavy for the FAC)
    Man, Fish, you sure know how to post a downer of a thread...
    Seriously, you raise a good question and I have no idea what the answer would be. I suspect that since the BCS can only have so many bowls, one of the classics would have to be squeezed out. Why the Fiesta is bigger than the Cotton is beyond me, other than the fact that Dallas can still be a bit cold in January. And maybe Tostitos has more clout than whatever corporation is branding the Cotton Bowl this year. I'm sure that the payout the bowl offers to the participating schools also comes into play. The Sun, of course, is played in El Paso, a nice town by all accounts, but it certainly doesn't have the draw of a Miami or a New Orleans. Remember the bowls before all the commercial tie-ins? I believe the Outback Bowl (go Iowa) was once the Tangerine, and the Capital One (hope Purdue wins) was once the Citrus. At least they changed the MicronPC Bowl to the Humanitarian Bowl (what's humanitarian about playing football in Boise in December?). Anyway, it all comes down to MONEY. If it didn't, we would just have a playoff system like the other collegiate divisions do, and actually crown a national champion the old fashioned way...on the field.

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    Cyburbian Big Easy King's avatar
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    I don't agree with the BCS system, but LSU is in the national championship game because of it. GEAUX TIGERS!!!

    Despite the controversial BCS system, does anyone think that a playoff system will ever be implemented?
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    Originally posted by Big Easy King
    I don't agree with the BCS system, but LSU is in the national championship game because of it. GEAUX TIGERS!!!

    Despite the controversial BCS system, does anyone think that a playoff system will ever be implemented?
    Maybe I'm naive, but I'm holding out hope that the NCAA will one day have the cojones to tell the bowls to screw themselves and implement a playoff.

    A controversy like USC being out of the championship game (partly because Boise St. beat Hawaii???) puts another nail in the coffin of the BCS.

    You know what? I've been a big Michigan fan my whole life, and there's a part of me that wants the Wolverines to lose the Rose Bowl to USC so that the whole BCS is f--ked.

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    Cyburbian ilikefish0's avatar
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    Originally posted by pete-rock
    Maybe I'm naive, but I'm holding out hope that the NCAA will one day have the cojones to tell the bowls to screw themselves and implement a playoff.

    A controversy like USC being out of the championship game (partly because Boise St. beat Hawaii???) puts another nail in the coffin of the BCS.

    You know what? I've been a big Michigan fan my whole life, and there's a part of me that wants the Wolverines to lose the Rose Bowl to USC so that the whole BCS is f--ked.
    While there is very little I would like more than the unconditional surrender and total destruction of the BCS (breathing is up there), as an (temporarily) expatriate Louisianian I have suddenly become a big Michigan fan. As as ASU student, I also despise USC, just like every other school in the Pac 10 does (don't really understand it yet, left coasters sure are strange).

    Also, the NCAA doesn't even have to tell the bowls to do something nasty to themselves. A sixteen team playoff would require 31 games. There are roughly 31 bowls. Catch my drift? This way, every bowl is important, too.
    Off to Zanzibar--To meet the Zanzibarbarians!

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    Originally posted by ilikefish0
    Also, the NCAA doesn't even have to tell the bowls to do something nasty to themselves. A sixteen team playoff would require 31 games. There are roughly 31 bowls. Catch my drift? This way, every bowl is important, too.
    The real problem is that the NCAA does not control college football. The conferences (and by extension, the bowls that have tie-ins) run things.

    The BCS was an end-around past the NCAA by the conferences and bowls. Right now, they have the money and the power to force college football decisions, and the NCAA hasn't been able to force college football to adapt like they did with college basketball.

    I think a modified playoff will eventually come, possibly after the BCS contract is up in 2005.

    What if the 8 BCS teams played in a playoff, with the Sugar, Rose, Orange and Fiesta Bowls being the first round? I'd even be happy with that result.

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    Cyburbian MD Planner's avatar
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    I think the question about the Cotton Bowl becoming a second tier event is a good one, but one that is fairly easily answered. Although there is a lot of history there, it's money that drives the bowls (and all of college football). For over 50 years the game matched up a Southwest Conference team with an at-large team. That had the potential to attract a varied audience. Now the bowl's tie-ins are the SEC and the Big XII so you don't have any school from the east eligible anymore, which as we all know is where a large portion of all tv viewers live. While people will tune in to casually observe the Cotton Bowl, if you don't have an eastern team like a Penn State, Virginia, Boston College or whoever, it's just not going to get great ratings. (although this year's game will probably be a real shoot out).

    The Fiesta Bowl has been around a long time but in the early 80's it became a January 1 Bowl which means more people watching, more people attending because of a warm climate etc. The steady TV and attendance numbers kept elevating that game. The huge #1 vs. #2 Miami/ Penn State game after the '86 season really put it on the map as well. In the early 90's the Bowl Alliance was linked with the Fiesta and then it just naturally evolved into one of the "Big 4" bowl games with the BCS.

    Sorry for the long post but I love college football and could talk about it for hours.

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    Cyburbian plankton's avatar
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    just my opinion

    Two easy suggestions for college football and the BCS committee:

    Continue to compile the BCS statistics and poll but only use them in case of a non-unanimous coaches and AP poll at the end of the season.

    Secondly, and this is a BIG one for us west coasters: You NEVER get to play in the national championship game if you don't win your own damn freakin' conference. %^$#! Nebraska screwing Oregon two years ago and now this (although I have to admit that I'm stoked on the USC-UM matchup).

    That's it - there's my two suggestions.

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    Re: just my opinion

    Originally posted by plankton
    Two easy suggestions for college football and the BCS committee:

    Continue to compile the BCS statistics and poll but only use them in case of a non-unanimous coaches and AP poll at the end of the season.

    Secondly, and this is a BIG one for us west coasters: You NEVER get to play in the national championship game if you don't win your own damn freakin' conference. %^$#! Nebraska screwing Oregon two years ago and now this (although I have to admit that I'm stoked on the USC-UM matchup).

    That's it - there's my two suggestions.
    Another factor that is not being mentioned is that the conferences WITHOUT conference championship games -- the Big Ten and Pac-10 (I leave out the ACC and Big East because it never mattered there; FSU and Miami were/are head and shoulders over the rest of the league) -- are penalized for not having them, and that allows teams that don't even win their conference to get a chance to play for the title.

    LSU gained extra BCS points by beating UGA in the SEC Championship game, and those are points that USC could not acquire themselves. If LSU did not have to play UGA last Saturday, they would not have had the chance to slide past USC. An extra conference title game means a team can slip up one time during the season and then run the table, with a guarantee that they'll face a highly ranked team in a semi-bowl game.

    The Big Ten and Pac-10 have to become 12 team leagues like the ACC just did, just to stay in the game.

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    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Re: Re: just my opinion

    Originally posted by pete-rock

    The Big Ten and Pac-10 have to become 12 team leagues like the ACC just did, just to stay in the game.
    Well, lesse... The Big TEleveN only needs one more team, right? If ABC would pull their Notre Dame contract, they'd join up in football and that one would be done...

    The Pac-10 is a little trickier... Pretty slim pickin' in the WAC and Mountain West to round out to twelve. Fresno State? Boise State? Ouch... How about the Banana Slugs? No...

    I'm thinking you'd have to raid the Mountain West for BYU (or maybe even Colorado State), and the WAC for Hawaii.
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    Re: Re: Re: just my opinion

    Originally posted by Mastiff
    Well, lesse... The Big TEleveN only needs one more team, right? If ABC would pull their Notre Dame contract, they'd join up in football and that one would be done...

    The Pac-10 is a little trickier... Pretty slim pickin' in the WAC and Mountain West to round out to twelve. Fresno State? Boise State? Ouch... How about the Banana Slugs? No...

    I'm thinking you'd have to raid the Mountain West for BYU (or maybe even Colorado State), and the WAC for Hawaii.
    I'm thinking that Notre Dame may be ready to make the move to the Big Ten once their TV contract is up. They have to believe that the days of competing for national titles as an independent are long over.

    For the Pac-10, I'd suggest UNLV and Hawaii. Remember, outside of bowl access, what counts most is the size and/or attractiveness of TV markets. Colorado State is second banana in the state to the Buffaloes. Utah and BYU might work, but Las Vegas and Honolulu might be a little better draw for a conference.

    Hell, I'd love to play in that Pac-12.

  13. #13
    Gunfighter Mastiff's avatar
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    Yeah...

    UNLV might be a good fit. Hawai'i would be a must...

    And UNLV would be MUCH more fun away game than BYU!
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