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Sign regulations for inner-city commercial strip
By jsk1983 at 2009/05/10 - 5:00pm

Do such things exist beyond the general city wide ordinances? I'm working with a CDC centered in the Chicago Lawn neighborhood on the south side of Chicago and we are hoping to improve the aesthetics of the commercial corridor. One thing we noticed is that many of the signs are hand painted or otherwise unattractive and thus wondered if there was any way to regulate this. Obviously there are plenty of sign regulations out there, but they tend to be for historic districts and affluent suburbs.

by mendelman on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 3:59pm
Not to sound harsh, but have you reviewed the City's sign code already?

From a brief review of it myself, it appears to allow signs painted onto the building's surface. Obviously, the quality of any painted sign can varied wildly, and I know about the issue you're getting at, but the best route for you would be to try get such signs prohibited in the City's sign code.

Outside of that maybe you can try to convince the individual property owners to privately prohibit this type of signage on their buildings, especially when you have multi-tenant buildings.

Good luck.

by gruntledpainter on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 3:59pm
why not just create an ordinance regarding the whole city? I guess what I'm asking is, are there areas where you think hand-painted or otherwise unsightly signs are acceptable? If not, then I would recommend trying to amend the code of ordinances or the UDC to include provisions about future signs. As for current ugly signs, if they aren't currently breaking some rule (find a loophole?), they should be grandfathered under the new regulations until altered or replaced.

Our city particularly has a long section in the UDC regarding sign regulations and design standards.

by jsk1983 on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 6:38pm
Thanks guys. I've been having trouble accessing parts of the city's website, both at home and at school, not sure why. I doubt we would have the authority to change the city's ordinance, In reality I would expect the best we could do is work with individual property owners.

by Dan on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by jsk1983 View post
One thing we noticed is that many of the signs are hand painted or otherwise unattractive and thus wondered if there was any way to regulate this. Obviously there are plenty of sign regulations out there, but they tend to be for historic districts and affluent suburbs.
Sounds like you're getting a lot of signs like this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/modesto...7594333382593/

10 or 15 years ago, I used to see a lot of sign codes that would regulate number of items on a sign, use of phone numbers, white space in the sign area, and so on. Such regulation is probably questionable now, due to case law on content neutrality. You can safely regulate presentation -- time, place and manner -- but be careful.

A few things I can think of:

* Prohibit signs painted directly on a building surface. This won't stop amateurish signs painted on wood, though.

* Fairly strict size limits; 1 to 1.5 square feet of signage per linear foot of wall at the most. In inner city neighborhoods, signs will often list every product or service offered by the business, which clutters the sign face. Size limits should be able to help.

* Require channel letter and box signs. Box signs aren't the greatest, but they're reasonably priced, and need to be professionally manufactured.

* Be wary of allowing bubble awnings. IMHO, they serve no practical purpose except as a sign display area, and are usually used as a loophole around attached wall sign regulations (the entire surface is internally illuminated like a sign face, but only a portion of the awning has the message,)

* Design guides that show examples of poorly designed signs and effective, well-designed signs. Emphasize this:

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal View post
A business that has a bad sign is a good sign that the business is bad. Both are going to be inclined to go away soon.
Cardinal is right. With a few exceptions, I've never seen a business with such amateurish signage last for more than a couple of years,

* Enforcement is key. I doubt the folks that are painting these amateurish signs are getting permits.

by jsk1983 on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 8:35pm
This takes the cake for an amateur sign:

Note they forgot to include the whole phone number. This is in Harvard, IL which is a small city at the end of a commuter rail line. It may be a stretch to call it a suburb though.

by mendelman on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 8:55pm
funny sign - since 815 is the area code, they're certainly going to get few calls.

by gruntledpainter on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mendelman View post
funny sign - since 815 is the area code, they're certainly going to get few calls.
Haha, this is awesome.

by Dan on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by jsk1983 View post
Note they forgot to include the whole phone number.
Off-topic:
That's odd, because they have the room to include it. In inner city Cleveland -- and I've seen in in Buffalo, too -- it looks like the sign painters run out of room, so a phone number, or some other item, is squeezed at the end. The concept of "white space" is unknown among sign painters in Cleveland.



I know some might look at these handmade signs as "outsider art" or "primitive art". However, I think sign painting is becoming a lost art.

by jsk1983 on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan View post
Off-topic:
That's odd, because they have the room to include it. In inner city Cleveland -- and I've seen in in Buffalo, too -- it looks like the sign painters run out of room, so a phone number, or some other item, is squeezed at the end. The concept of "white space" is unknown among sign painters in Cleveland.



I know some might look at these handmade signs as "outsider art" or "primitive art". However, I think sign painting is becoming a lost art.
Plenty of room. It really doesn't look like it rubbed off, more likely they just completely forgot. One would think one would have noticed by now and fixed it, but alas not. I can't quite recall whether it was still open or not.

by mendelman on Thu, 2009/04/16 - 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan View post
Off-topic:
I know some might look at these handmade signs as "outsider art" or "primitive art". However, i think sign painting is becoming a lost art.
Indeed, I agree. Painted signs can be beautiful.

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