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Small town looking to create a downtown: any examples?
By fourthconchord at 2008/06/05 - 4:00pm

A small bedroom community of 10,000 population does not currently have a true downtown. There is no street level retail, though the town is not completely sprawled out. There is some light density as retail is about 30' off the road, houses are about 20' from the street. The city is in the process of defining a formal downtown centered around public buildings and some of the most active retail. Does anyone here know of any other towns that have done something similar? Does anyone have any experience or tips for a community trying to do this?

by DetroitPlanner on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 7:58pm
Novi Michigan (a far suburb of Detroit) tried this about 12-15 years ago. The results are mixed. Downtowns need to be more organic than planned. If you have a place where you can grow a downtown naturally I suppose it can happen. Much of what I see typically around here are a collection of interconnected stripmalls and buildings that still face primarilly parking lots. Each has some of the elements of a downtown but they are not one.

Here are some suggestions, and I need to preface them by saying my expertise is in transportation, not economic development.
- Allow on street parking where appropriate (where safe and free of congestion) and use those spaces in determining if a business has enough parking places.
- Interconnect the separate developments withing the downtown district and the downtown area itself with nearby residential land uses to encourage a pedestrian environment.
- Make the area a center of your transit needs by providing enough space for doctors offices. This way, paratransit can be provided and folks who can't get out much can link trips to the doctor with trips to the market, city hall or bank. Downtowns cannot perform correctly if they are one stop destinations.
- Provide for benches, shade trees, and other streetscaping as appropriate for urban centers.

by Iron Ring on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 8:40pm
Nelson, British Columbia... google it (or go rent the movie "Roxanne" starring Steve Martin). Nelson has about 10,000 ppl and honestly has a more vibrant downtown than many places 10x its size.

by Streck on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 12:27am
Go to page 46 of this site:

http://www.cmpdd.org/Publications/20...0Directory.pdf

It is the Southern Mississippi Planning and Development District which includes Hattiesburg in its 15 counties.

They exist specifically to help small towns such as yours organize around planning.

The home page of this site has names and telephone numbers.

There are 10 of these MAPDD's in Mississippi. We used CMPDD for advice and contracted with them for help on our Zoning Map, Ordinances, and Comprehensive Plan. Highly recommended.

MAPDD just had their statewide annual convention on the coast in Bilioxi and I bet they are fired up with new ways to help you.

by Luca on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 11:24am
Question: where is there a main collector/through road of this community located? at the peripohery or right though it?. I.e. if ===== is the road and XXX is housing, is the arrangement like this:

. . . . .XXX
. . .XXXXXXX
===============
. . .XXXXXXX
. . . . .XXX


or like this:

. . . . .XXX
. . .XXXXXXX
. . .XXXXXXX
===============

Any map/google map appreciated.

(Disclaimer: my knowledge of urban form is purely amatorial . not a pro planner).

by fourthconchord on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Streck View post
Go to page 46 of this site:

http://www.cmpdd.org/Publications/20...0Directory.pdf

It is the Southern Mississippi Planning and Development District which includes Hattiesburg in its 15 counties.

They exist specifically to help small towns such as yours organize around planning.

The home page of this site has names and telephone numbers.

There are 10 of these MAPDD's in Mississippi. We used CMPDD for advice and contracted with them for help on our Zoning Map, Ordinances, and Comprehensive Plan. Highly recommended.

MAPDD just had their statewide annual convention on the coast in Bilioxi and I bet they are fired up with new ways to help you.
Oh yea I know all about the PDD's, my boss claims he taught them everything they know about planning.

by Cardinal on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 1:23pm
[QUOTE=fourthconchord;437419]A small bedroom community of 10,000 population does not currently have a true downtown...[QUOTE]

I don't think you are referring to Hattiesburg? There is definitely a downtown there. Look to lifestyle malls as an example of how to do it successfully. I gave a presentation on this topic a year ago. Send me a private message and I will forward a copy.

by fourthconchord on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Luca View post
Question: where is there a main collector/through road of this community located? at the peripohery or right though it?. I.e. if ===== is the road and XXX is housing, is the arrangement like this:

. . . . .XXX
. . .XXXXXXX
===============
. . .XXXXXXX
. . . . .XXX


or like this:

. . . . .XXX
. . .XXXXXXX
. . .XXXXXXX
===============

Any map/google map appreciated.

(Disclaimer: my knowledge of urban form is purely amatorial . not a pro planner).
It's more like your second scenario. I'm not looking for planning theory on the location or demarcation of a downtown but more or less what the actual process that took place to create a successful downtown and how these communities got the developers to actively support the plan. IE tax incentives? public-private partnership on land redevelopment? streamlined review process?

by fourthconchord on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 1:30pm
I don't think you are referring to Hattiesburg? There is definitely a downtown there. Look to lifestyle malls as an example of how to do it successfully. I gave a presentation on this topic a year ago. Send me a private message and I will forward a copy.[/QUOTE]

Though my location is Hattiesburg I am not referring to Hattiesburg. Hattiesburg has a small but active downtown that is growing slowly but surely.

Lifestyle mall? really? Every lifestyle mall I've seen has been a mall, located on the periphery that appeared to be sliced up by a knife and labeled "town center" with no signs of activity past 8pm and no residential space. I'm open to all new ideas and are all ears but I must say I'm sorta skeptical.

by fourthconchord on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 1:33pm
Cardinal, I do not currently have the capability to private message. I believe that my fresh new account is in some sort of probationary period until a certain amount of posts.

by zmanPLAN on Thu, 2008/05/08 - 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by fourthconchord View post
Every lifestyle mall I've seen has been a mall, located on the periphery that appeared to be sliced up by a knife and labeled "town center" with no signs of activity past 8pm and no residential space. I'm open to all new ideas and are all ears but I must say I'm sorta skeptical.
This is a good description of a Lifestyle Mall. I may have to use it as my own.

The artificial creation of a "downtown shopping mecca" has rendered people confused in my experience. I seem to have trouble with a more or less "walkable" space, but one that you must drive to. Or even drive within, as I have seen people do this with our local "lifestyle center".

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