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40 Years LAter

Jeff

Cyburbian
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4,161
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27
So....who did it? The 40th Anniversary of the JFK assassination.

Do you believe it was Oswald?

The Russians?

The Mob?


Discuss.
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
6,318
Points
36
Lately I've been thinking about how the Kennedy family lost so many children. I wonder if the old man made someone mad and they retaliated. It's kind of far fetched, but they lost four adult children to violent death.
 

Gedunker

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Anybody see the program on ABC last night? The computer animation was based on the Zapruder film -- frame by frame -- and made a pretty convincing case that Oswald was the lone shooter. There was no magic bullet, either.

It was persuasive that Oswald acted entirely alone on Nov'r 22 but the confluence of events -- a loner with marksman's training who wants to be a revolutionary gets a job in a building with a perfect sight line where the president's motorcade will pass as he rides in an open limousine -- still amazes me. Truth is stranger than fiction.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Magic Bullet

I don't remember the details on the weight of the bullet recovered, but anyone who has recovered a round from a deer, tree, berm, etc knows the thing is destroyed.

The bullet recovered from the JFK shooting "supposedly" created 7 different wounds, and amazingly still retained alot its weight characteristics.

Guess they don't make them like they used to.
 

Gedunker

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Re: Magic Bullet

Mike D. said:
The bullet recovered from the JFK shooting "supposedly" created 7 different wounds, and amazingly still retained alot its weight characteristics.
The three-dimensional computer animation covered this pretty well: In the first frame after the limousine emerges from behind a highway sign, Governor Connelly can be seen turning toward the camera, in the next frame you can literally see that his coat has moved from the bullet exiting under his right nipple. Kennedy is visible in the next frame moving his arms and hands up toward his throat, a grimaced look on his face. Kennedy lurches forward in the next two frames and then the fatal shot exits his brain.

Using the computer and the Zapruder film, you can align the men, their wounds, and the trajectory of the bullet to the sixth floor of the SBD building without question. ABC also showed the actual bullet that wounded both men and it was clearly damaged but not destroyed. Forensic tests on the bullet showed conclusively that it was fired by Oswald's Mannlicher rifle.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
Messages
1,387
Points
26
There are seveal witnesses that saw a man with a gun on the grassy knoll. Enhancement of the Moorman photo shows the figures and those who witnessed this person shooting. There is a definite cover up. The "official" medical records don't jive with the doctors who first examined the president. Official records do not show the back of his head blown off. Several doctors stated the right upper portion of his skull and brain were gone. In the official photos, the rear of his head is magically all in place. Have not found the fake photos that I saw on several tv sepecials. The link below shows some of the autopsy photos. WARNING: May not be work safe.

Photos
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
I tend to believe Oswald acted alone. Only thing that doesn't make me 100% of that is an organized crime scenario. As the story goes, the Kennedys made a deal with mob boss Giacanna (I am sure my spelling is way off) to secure the support of the Teamsters and others to get elected, then after JFK gets elected he sics Bobby on organized crime. Just the sort of double-cross that might make a mob guy want to whack you. And then Oswald gets killed by Jack Ruby, a strip club owner with Mob connections. As the Church Lady would say, "Isn't that convenient!"

So I figure Oswald was the lone gunman. But maybe, just maybe, organized crime put him up to it then silenced him.

But I think we should just let it go. It happened 40 years ago. It is done. What is the point of continuously rehashing it?
 

Gedunker

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otterpop said:
But I think we should just let it go. It happened 40 years ago. It is done. What is the point of continuously rehashing it?
Why do we study history? If this was a conspiracy other unnamed conspirators were involved. What did they achieve beyond murdering the president of the United States? It is important to prove the facts one way or another.

STTG argues that there was a fourth shot from the grassy knoll area. There was a motorcycle patrolman whose radio was stuck in the "on" position. The shots were recorded -- three shots -- on a recorder at police headquarters. The National Academy of Sciences studied the tape and issued a conclusive report that Oswald's first shot missed -- that is why Connelly is turning toward the Zapruder camera, looking to see where the shot came from, when Kennedy is hit with the second shot (which also hits Connelly). The third shot struck Kennedy in the back of the head, causing an exit wound in the front right, supporting the doctor's claims of the exit wound they described.
 

Bangorian

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198
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7
IT WAS THE GOP!!!

(ps - they also hired the watergate whistle-blower because Nixon had turned into a liberal p*ssy!)
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
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1,387
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26
I have not stated how many shots there were. I'm saying there is more than one witness describing a man with gun on the grassy knoll. One, a soldier on leave, decribed how he heard at least one bullet go right past him. If you have experienced that, you cannot forget it. I would not trust a radio, circa 1963, to be able to pick up any sound in the area. They can fail, the micorphone could have been covered or many other things. I don't buy the Oswald theory. I have shot a scopped bolt action rifle thousands of times. The theory he took those shots in a matter of seconds is not possible. A shot to the back of the head would produce a small opening while the exit would would blow everything away in the front of the head. The front of Kennedy's head was fully intact.

My theory is Oswald was actin alone, or more likely at the request of the gov't. He was caught and killed to take away any attention to what anyone else may have seen. Kind of coincidental that the one everyone was accusing of the murder was shot soon after. He could then never tell his side of the story.
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
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SlaveToTheGrind said:
The theory he took those shots in a matter of seconds is not possible.
I guess you didn't see the 76 year old guy do it for the TV cameras the other night. He dry fired three times and had a half second to spare.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
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1,387
Points
26
giff57 said:
I guess you didn't see the 76 year old guy do it for the TV cameras the other night. He dry fired three times and had a half second to spare.
I can't compare a dry fire to firing with recoil, noise, and actually knowing you are shooting at someone. Dry firing is completely different.
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
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674
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19
SlaveToTheGrind said:
I can't compare a dry fire to firing with recoil, noise, and actually knowing you are shooting at someone. Dry firing is completely different.
Not saying I agree with your theory, but you're right here - not to mention the added resistance of expelling spent cartridges from the chamber and the seating of the next round...
 

Gedunker

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The shots are recorded on the Zapruder film. By counting the frames there is 8.7 second between the first shot and the last. Oswald was a Marine Corps qualified marksman. Experts agree that he could have fired three shots in that span, including the perfectly-aimed final shot.

A good read on the Kennedy's murder is Gerald Posner's Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy Assassination. It all comes down to the fact that every conspiracy must include Oswald because he was at the scene, had the opportunity and had motive. The Soviets, the Cubans, the CIA/FBI/Military Industrial Complex, and Mafia theories all fail to directly tie to Oswald -- they all break down in Dealy Plaza.

Posner posits that the thories of conspiracy persist because people refuse to accept that a scrungy little scumbag like Oswald could kill the president of the United States.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

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This is the last I will post on this thread. After all, we could go on for days. I believe Oswald did fire. I have not doubt about that. I believe he was set up to take the fall while a second gunman was used to add insurance. I believe the government is involved in a huge cover up. If not, they would allow all information to be studied and analyzed. Why did the government confiscate film and never return photos? They identified something that was not supposd to be caught on film and would have blown the whole Oswald-lone gunman out the door. With Oswald then dead, they could close the book on the case.

As far as Owald being a marksman. I had high score at scout camp. Guess I'm a marksman. And that was with an iron site rifle.;)
 

Gedunker

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Don't leave STTG, we basically agree to a certain point.

You do know that Oswald was a United States Marine before he was discharged then defected to the Soviet Union. He qualified in the Corps on the M1 Garrand, the standard issue rifle of the armed forces at that time. I am no expert, but the M1 and the weapon used by Oswald are said to be very similar.

How does a conspiracy last -- as ironclad as this -- for 40 years? The mafia says no way it would put out a hit on the president with anybody that could possibly be traced back to them. Everyone knows the Soviets didn't do it. Johnson suspected Castro and Oswald apparently did visit the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City in the summer of '63, but Castro wasn't about to do it when his island would be flattened in a millisecond. That leaves the US government. And I just don't believe that the government could cover-up a conspiracy that hundreds of people would have had to be in on for forty years without someone talking.
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
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674
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19
Gedunker said:
I am no expert, but the M1 and the weapon used by Oswald are said to be very similar.
The M1 Garand is a semi-automatic, not a bolt action. That's a pretty huge difference...
 

Gedunker

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El Feo said:
The M1 Garand is a semi-automatic, not a bolt action. That's a pretty huge difference...
That is a big difference. I said I was not an expert. The comparison was in its weight, balance, and aiming.
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
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674
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Gedunker said:
That is a big difference. I said I was not an expert. The comparison was in its weight, balance, and aiming.
No, I know you said you weren't an expert - neither am I - but I have shot both the M1 Garand, and several bolt actions (Springfield 1903 - which I've shot - seems comparable to the Garand, too). But it's far easier to hold a bead, much less track and lead a target, with a semi-auto than it is with a bolt-action. That's the point I didn't make but should've.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

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Okay, you talked me into it. After all, this is what the boards are for. I've shot the M1 as well, fun to shoot, but nearly 10 lbs. As you are aware, there are thousands of sites on the web with information. Most probably contain truth. The link below has some info on Oswald's capability. He was not considered a great marksman.
Link
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
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Gedunker - This came from the Court TV site in a interview with Paul Dowling who produced a special for the network.

Paul Dowling: The materials from the assassination are in the National Archives. Scientists and other experts can request access to those materials, or copies of the materials, to analyze. Naturally, some of the items can't be duplicated, like bullet fragments, but things like the autopsy x-rays, the autopsy photographs are available for inspection. And much of the information is in the Warren report, which no one seems to read. We tested the police audiotape recorded from a microphone stuck in the on position on motorcycle in the presidential motorcade. This was believed to have been recorded at the time of the assassination. Government scientists in 1978 concluded the tapes showed evidence of four shots fired at the president, and that one of them came from the grassy knoll. We retested that tape with new state of the art digital audio forensic technology and concluded a number of things. First, the tape was recorded a minute AFTER the assassination. Second, our tests revealed the noise was random noise. The motorcycle that recorded this tape was not moving, meaning that it wasn't in the presidential motorcade. In short, the tape does not contain the gunfire of assassins.

Again, there can be many other opinions on this. This leads me to believe there are no definite answers, and may never be any.
 

Gedunker

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SlaveToTheGrind said:
Again, there can be many other opinions on this. This leads me to believe there are no definite answers, and may never be any.
Agreed. You are a good cyburbanite, STTG. Have a good weekend!
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
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5,995
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31
I wonder....



Do you think we could get the team from CSI Miami on the case? That blond forensic lady is smart, pretty and spunky!

I'm thinking we will never know what really happened until the gismos in Minority Report are available to the staff of the drudgereport. You know, magic time-travel cameras and that kind of stuff...
 
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