And this is going to help our sluggish job market how?

[PlannerByDay]

And this is going to help our sluggish job market how?

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush will outline an immigration reform proposal Wednesday that would allow workers in the United States illegally to join a new temporary worker program and not lose their jobs, administration officials said.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/06/elec04.prez.bush.immigration/index.html

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

The officials said the employers would have to show they cannot find U.S. citizens to fill their jobs.

-Sure, what employer is going follow this rule?

 

[GeogPlanner]

we can all be replaced. does that rule apply to sleeper cells who are willing to dump trash to stay here?

 

[iamme]

(generalizations ahead)

When is the last time you applied for a position listed as either "dishwasher", "hostess", or "laborer"?

 

[GeogPlanner]

i almost took a host job at a restuaraunt when i was laid off last year

 

[BKM]

Elderly curmudgeon hat on...

When I was growing up, I worked as a dishwasher, cooked, mowed lawns, delivered newspapers, etc. This was in the Midwest, of course, and we didn't at that time have an imported cheap labor force to do the "dirty work."

Now, darn kids are too lazy and spoiled to do HARD WORK!

 

[boiker]

dishwashing...ick

i did that for 6 months for my first job.. brutal brutal brutal.

besides washing dishes, i was the "utility" position, meaning i hauled out trash, grease, mopped, cleaned, cleared, clean bathrooms.... I was a rich man, making my 4.75 hr, which is what they payed way back in '94.

I then upgraded to a dairy queen, where i did much of the same and prepared/served ice cream, operated register, and on some days acted as manager. i think i left there making 5.30 hr in '96.

Then college "cush" jobs, working as a computer lab attendent. making again, a monsterous 5.15 hr. at least i wasn't washing dishes anymore.

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

Re: dishwashing...ick

besides washing dishes, i was the "utility" position, meaning i hauled out trash, grease, mopped, cleaned, cleared, clean bathrooms.... I was a rich man, making my 4.75 hr, which is what they payed way back in '94.

Did you work at McDonald's too?

 

[iamme]

Just clarifying that my comment was made in jest.

I have been a dishwasher, cashier, day-laborer, and did the cutting lawns/shoveling snow bit.

 

[el Guapo]

Hispanopia

It’s all about getting reelected, Duh!

Can anyone here give me a logical explanation of why the US Census Bureau is so fascinated with things of "Hispanic" origin? Why separate classifications, and why does damn near every federal form I now fill out ask if the people or I the form concerns is "Hispanic"?

 

[The Irish One]

Yup, you got to sell out to get elected.Triangulated compassionate conservatism paradigmics, I swear if it weren't for tax cuts I'd call this guy a center right democrat.

Ah yes, a step closer to the third world. Can you imagine how many jobs there are going to be in this country! And not a single one of those new jobs will come with a raise. Lowered expectations, here we come. Construction just got a lot cheaper.

 

[giff57]

Ahh politics, GW knows he doesn't have the votes to pass this. When congress shuts him down, he still gets the Hispanic vote, and nothing new happens. Of course George The First, talked about his "little brown kids", so who knows

 

[boiker]

Re: Re: dishwashing...ick

Did you work at McDonald's too?

fortunately, no. phew.

 

[donk]

And not a single one of those new jobs will come with a raise. Lowered expectations, here we come.

What all of the illegals work for the government?

Lots of departments here have not gotten raises in years.

 

[Seabishop]

Ahh politics, GW knows he doesn't have the votes to pass this. When congress shuts him down, he still gets the Hispanic vote, and nothing new happens. Of course George The First, talked about his "little brown kids", so who knows

And he also doesn't have any challengers on the right to say he's "soft" on illegal immigration.

 

[H]

Ahh politics, GW knows he doesn't have the votes to pass this. When congress shuts him down, he still gets the Hispanic vote, and nothing new happens.

Bingo!!!!

Plus he is going to Mexico next week to talk with el presidente.

As of right now I understand there are 8 million illegal aliens, half of which are from Mexico.

 

[Planderella]

Re: Re: Re: dishwashing...ick

fortunately, no. phew.

Hey!!!! I worked at McDonald's for 3 whole months!!!! I still emit the french fries grease smell to prove it! :-D

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: dishwashing...ick

Hey!!!! I worked at McDonald's for 3 whole months!!!! I still emit the french fries grease smell to prove it! :-D

Try 2 years at the McDonalds. You sweet grease after that

 

[Seabishop]

Proud ex-McDonalds employee for about a year. I met some very interesting characters there. Never saw a roach. I was even a member of the "Cranston II" softball team.

Did anyone go to one of those big region-wide pep rallies they have?

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

Did anyone go to one of those big region-wide pep rallies they have?

No, but I know of a few managers who went to Hamburger College.

 

[ludes98]

Not going over too well here in AZ. 37 cents of every tax dollar collected in one county bordering Mexico, goes toward illegal immigration. I can appreciate that they do jobs many people may not be interested in, but amnesty for any illegal already here?

 

[El Feo]

Not to split hairs here, and I'm trying to figure this one out myself, but it's every employed illegal. Unemployed would get no amnesty.

 

[ludes98]

I still have trouble with employed. It will be interesting to see how that gets defined for this legislation. Many illegals are still just working daily, or in some other temporary fashion. If employed means has job for today or this week, hello deportation. We here in AZ are obviously (overly) focused on the immigration of Mexican nationals, but then they do comprise 4 of the estimated 8 million illegals in the US.

 

[The Irish One]

I had a dream minumum wage was lowered.

 

[JNA]

I had my share of those jobs too -

seasonal employment - both summer and winter;
grocery store stock boy;
dishwasher (even after getting my undergrad degree); and
sanitation line maintenance (I was a "Norton").

with no benefits either.

 

[BKM]

Well, agribusiness, landscpaing contractors, construction companies, and the like will love this. The average taxpayer may not-as these folks will be totally at the mercy of their employers and will not make enough money to pay for basic needs. So-your local County hospital-even bigger deficit as "last chance" medical care demands increase.

 

[Grassroots]

tit for tat

i say tit for tat. the current mexican policy is very preventative of americans heading south and owning land and is very tightly regulated over business generation on the part of americans on their soil. i believe that if they can come here and now own homes on american soil, i should have the right to go over there and buy and own land. just one example, but a major one for me. of coarse, the mexican gov't makes it impossible for foreign land ownership unless you are in special development "zones". it seems to me that instead of making the neccessary reforms in their country to make things work, the policy of their government is to just go north and work in america. if this type of behavior keeps up, i can foresee major changes for reform happening in mexican government whether actual mexican people want it or not. they are going to have to start to play ball and finally deal with their corruption there in order to play ball with us. then there is always the language issue.

 

[BKM]

Interesting perspective, grassroots.

On another board (2blowhards-lol) I was lurking on, a poster had a similar take on the matter:

"What we are talking about is largely the de facto merger of the U.S. and Mexico. If this is to happen, I would prefer it (and I suspect most people in both countries would prefer it) to happen on the terms of the U.S. But frankly, it seems as if this
merger is taking place far more on the terms of Mexico. The Mexican elite (a rather sinister crew) still is in full control of their country, a control which they maintain by exporting their, er, surplus population. If we want to discuss racism, by the way, Victor David Hansen's book "Mexifornia" makes
> the point that the Mexican class structure looks pretty much as if it was designed by the KKK, with European whites firmly at the top and dark-skinned Mexicans of Indian descent firmly at the bottom. And we are the safety valve that lets this continue! Moreover, I can't walk into Mexico and make the
same demands that the professional pro-immigrant crowd demands for Mexicans in my country: education in my children's native language (English), governmentally-provided health care, etc., etc. I mean, how exactly did America get to be the doormat here in this international dispute (which is what this situation really is)."

Is this racist to feel this poster makes some good points?

 

[Grassroots]

BKM

i don't feel it is racist at all....it is practical. there is going to be an inevitable melding of spanish and american cultures. putting up walls just takes money out of our tax coffers. the more prudent coarse of action would seem to be to work on government reforms in mexico, make it easier for you or i to go down there, own land, and start a business. you also made a good point about the language. i don't mind my kids or myself learning basic spanish, BUT i do think the mexican government needs to make english education mandatory for their students as well. people need not be threatened by the language thing. the language of business, technology, and international relations will always be english. frankly, it is, arguably, the easiest language to learn on the planet. i told the ukrainians that the difference or why american english is harder to learn is that our language evolves with every new james bond movie or new fad...very colloquial in nature compared to the rigid "queen's english", but back to the point: i just think that if we make concessions, they should be doing the same. people joked on ross perot during the elections, but you had to admit his economic policy made sense from a capitalist perspective. simply: you don't put up sanctions or restrictions on our goods and we won't put up any on yours. simple. that keeps thing competitive. not meaning to get off the subject, but that is where i was coming from. it's got to be a two-way street. while overseas in europe, i joked a lot about an eventual north american union and even united under a single currency. could you see that happening? i came back to america and see it well under way, but no one is admitting it outright in the open yet (at least in the mass public eye...it is being gradually unraveled in the news as change in policy and such) . i just think americans would be a little bull-headed to have mexico city on the dollar.

 

[The Irish One]

The Mexican government couldn't care less what their gente speak or if they read or write. As far as I know, once your past eighth grade in Mexico you're on your own. Let's face it, we're a welfare state for a lot of Latin America's immigrants, especially Mexico. What really pisses me off is how the federal government doesn't throw some of its cash at places like California to pay the medical , welfare and legal bills of the illegal immigrants. It's fedreal policy that dictates the immigration situation, CHP can't just decide it wants to patrol the border.

 

[BKM]

Why should the federal government now help California? It is, after all, a "red state".

 

[The Irish One]

Yeah I know, a red state. A red state that generates massive amounts of cash for federal spending.

You're not being a racist because you have expectations of Mexico to give attention to the rural mestizo who has traditionally been shat upon. There is a certain twisted pc mentality that has developed in this situation (I think), for the, dare I say, native people of the USA. When we criticize another country, do we have to ask ourselves if we are being racist? Since when is it not permitted to demand that immigrants learn to read and write English and to assimilate in to the host culture? Those aren't racist demands, if anything they are an absolutely generous and humanitarian gift from the US public. And let's face the fact that few, if any Mexican immigrant ever want to permanently return to Mexico. I understand why, it's a backward, RACIST, society. and for the blessing of living in the US, I expect total assimilation. The Punjabs, Iranians, Caldeans, Spaniards, Vietnamese, Chinese, Irish, Swedes, Cubans and many Mexicans have made the transition and it has done nothing but make our country great! Victor Davis Hansen describes the Mexican plight, and that is geography. "For the Mexican....the Rio Grande is no ocean, but a trickle easily crossed by a drive over a tiny bridge. A limited visitation, a family reunion.....nourished enough nostalgia for Mexico to war with the creation of a truly American identity." Native populations have every right to keep a national character. That doesn't mean you have to be a certain color, or only speak English. I'm not sure I know how to describe the national character of the USA, but it does have one.

 

[SkeLeton]

I just don't get the immigrants that don't want to at least learn English. It's the country's language, and you willingly migrated there. Nobody is saying you can't speak your native language in your own house or with your relatives; when I was in the US, my parents were all day long speaking to my brother and I in Spanish (As a part of a plan to prevent us from forgeting at least the basic of it), while we spoke English back to them, and spoke it all day long.
Also, I don't understand why they even expect that the US will give them everything for free, just because of being immigrants; people have to work to win money here and everywhere in the world.

 

[Grassroots]

irish one...

i agree about the feds should be putting money toward the problems. i lived in cali for a while and after talking with people out there it seemed to me that the issue is that the feds are not going to do it because people in the northeast and northwest refuse to pass any money or legislation towards it because it is seen as a state problem. i guess once ALL states are overrun with the immigrant problems california is facing, only then will they say "oh.... maybe we should do something about this". until then, they don't want their state tax money for other state's problems.

the feds should be protecting our borders, especially since bush is all about consolidating and streamlining operations of similiar agencies...why not start with either consolidating state border patrol costs and staff or just have the feds take over altogether?

cali is an agricultural powerhouse. i just thought it was funny that you have checks for fruits and produce at the state borders and less control for people...o.k. for people to cross the border illegally, but heaven help you if you are a rogue, terrorist tomato plant.