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Are we willing to sacrifice a few people to criminals to feel safe?

What to do?

  • Charge the old coot - How dare he defend himself!

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Sweep it under the rug like every thing else that exposes flaws in the system.

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Fight the arrest through the courts. The case will live longer than the planitif.

    Votes: 8 40.0%
  • Keep on packing heat - Screw the law!

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • I just don't have an opinion. People like me better that way

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Huh?

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,852
Points
39
I say keep the gun.

We are having more and more instances in our area where home invasion suspects are shot dead by the homeowners. Good for them!

I am a bit ambivalent on the licensing issue. Although I would find it difficult to support the prosection of an old guy who was defending himself.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
He got lucky. Having the gun did not prevent him from being robbed. Having the gun did not prevent him from being injured. All it did was raise the potential that he might have been killed. That is true in the vast majority of cases. Owning or carrying a gun does little to improve your safety and more often causes harm. (I am a gun owner.)
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Cardinal said:
He got lucky. Having the gun did not prevent him from being robbed. Having the gun did not prevent him from being injured. All it did was raise the potential that he might have been killed. That is true in the vast majority of cases. Owning or carrying a gun does little to improve your safety and more often causes harm. (I am a gun owner.)
Yeah but think about it if he shot the punk. The headlines would have read, "Old man shoots and gives much needed killing to repeat offender who the system let fall between the cracks. Ticker tape parade set for hero." Hey thats the last time I mess with the senoir citizens. NY gun laws are ridiculous. When I lived in PA, they did a background check and gave me the gun 5 minutes later. In NY, you have to take a pistol permit course for either 6 months or a year. So I guess I can't shoot somebody with my heat due to legal repercussions. Thats ok, I'll just use the shotgun.
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
923
Points
22
I think we miss these key points about gun law.

First, guns should be subject to reasonable product safety laws. That would result in some form of decent safety mechanisms.

Second, gun owners should be fully responsible for the use of their guns. If a gun is stolen or left around, and then causes death or injury, the owner that did not secure that weapon should be responsible for the damage it did. If stolen, a report to the Police would relieve the owner of responsibility if it was stolen from a secured location. If not, the owner remains responsible. "Owner" includes gun shops.

Third, gun use should have some basic rules. Did the user create an inappropriate risk to others by use of the gun.

If those were in effect, I say let the old man have his gun.
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
The old man should be able to pack. He needs a license. The judge should be sympathetic to his attempts at self preservation.
 
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BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,463
Points
29
Dittos to Irish One.

Not sure requiring a pistol safety course before a gun license is issued is a bad idea. Maybe a six month course is a little long, but to just give you the weapon after five minutes-not sure I like that, either. There should be a middle ground.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
Messages
1,444
Points
27
The geezer was just protecting his "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." The judge will probably slap him on the wirst and tell him to get the permit. I say good for him and give him some extra metamucil.
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
Cardinal said:
He got lucky. Having the gun did not prevent him from being robbed. Having the gun did not prevent him from being injured. All it did was raise the potential that he might have been killed. That is true in the vast majority of cases. Owning or carrying a gun does little to improve your safety and more often causes harm. (I am a gun owner.)
As a believer in the right to own guns, I completly agree. I support gun ownership because I grew up in a culture in which guns were present, but respected. Some of my best memories of childhood were of going hunting with my dad, but I learned from day one how to properly handle them.

I learned to make a point, when holding a gun, never to aim it at a person, even when the breach is open, never put my hand on the trigger, keep the safety on until the last possible second, always open the breach of an unloaded gun before handing it to another person so they can see that it's unloaded, or tell them that it is loaded after making sure the safety is engaged. I learned to unconsiously check to make sure the safety is still engaged every five minutes or so while carying the gun, etc etc etc. Guns in my house were always stored unloaded with trigger locks, ammunition was locked in a safe.

We never thought of using a gun in self-defense and I still would never carry a gun for that reason. Firstly, half of those rules go out the window when you're carrying a gun conceled on your body, secondly, having a gun makes getting mugged all the more dangerous, because if you whip one out, your chances of getting hurt or killed increase a thousandfold because the mugger's going to go on the defensive.

Actually, I believe that there isn't really a place for guns in an urban environment, except maybe for cops. Gun rights should be protected in this country because they are an essential part of rural culture, not because of any romantic notion of wild-west style justice.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
jordanb said:
Actually, I believe that there isn't really a place for guns in an urban environment, except maybe for cops. Gun rights should be protected in this country because they are an essential part of rural culture, not because of any romantic notion of wild-west style justice.
And I'll have to totally disagree. Its not an urban vs. rural right, its an constitutional right for all americans.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,917
Points
36
The mere fact that someone like you is entitled to bear arms Rumpy Tuna makes me feel very happy that I live in a different country. I mean that in the nicest possible way.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Where to begin?

Wulf9 said:
I think we miss these key points about gun law.

First, guns should be subject to reasonable product safety laws. That would result in some form of decent safety mechanisms.
They do. The first safety mechanism is a responsible gun owner. The second is an unloaded weapon. The third is a lock now sold with every gun. The fourth is the safety mechanism found on most types of guns.

Second, gun owners should be fully responsible for the use of their guns. If a gun is stolen or left around, and then causes death or injury, the owner that did not secure that weapon should be responsible for the damage it did. If stolen, a report to the Police would relieve the owner of responsibility if it was stolen from a secured location. If not, the owner remains responsible. "Owner" includes gun shops.
Are you willing to extend your "the owner is liable if the gun is stoeln or used by someone else" argument to virtually anything? If a car is stolen and the thief runs someone over, is the owner responsible? How about if he left the keys in the ignition? By the way, "owner" includes auto dealers. If you have a dinner party and one guest uses the knife you gave him to stab another guest, are you responsible? A knife is a weapon or a tool, just like a gun. Maybe that liability should be extended to the department store where the steak knife was purchased.

Third, gun use should have some basic rules. Did the user create an inappropriate risk to others by use of the gun.

If those were in effect, I say let the old man have his gun.
Those rules are in place at both the federal level and in every state. They cover conditions for ownership, storage, and use. They are quite extensive.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Tranplanner said:
The mere fact that someone like you is entitled to bear arms Rumpy Tuna makes me feel very happy that I live in a different country. I mean that in the nicest possible way.
Just remember Tranplanner, I live next to the border, so I'm not that far away from you. Going across the Peace Bridge anytime soon? aha hahahhhaha ah haa hha hhah. Note I'm just kidding around here.
Besides you need people like me around when the first wave of the Zombie Attacks starts.
 

FueledByRamen

Cyburbian
Messages
449
Points
13
I agree that him carrying a gun in the first place is a bad idea. 9 times out of 10, if he pulled that gun, the attacker would actually take it and cap the guy. Thats not to say he shouldnt have the right to own the weapon though. He should just have it registered and be licensed to carry it.

Of course here comes the big question about money. It doesnt look to me like a guy that is obviously living on mainly his $262 a month is going to have a lot of left over cash to afford a training course or anything.

The issue of gun control is one of those ones that Im not really sure about. I value the right to own a gun (I dont though) and would like to be able to protect meyself (never have had to) but I am more worried about school shootings, drivebys, etc. that have become alot more common place over the last few years.

I think for me it comes down more to an issue of personal safety for everyone, and I personally would feel more safe if no one carried guns. By the way, NRA or hunting people...what is the point of having a pistol other than shooting at a person or target practice? I have never shot a pistol, so I don't know, but as far as I know, all hunting uses either a shotgun or a rifle, neither of which need to be semiautomatic.

Of course I could bring up my whole thing about fairness in hunting...If youre going to go to a lease where animals are fenced in, you should only use a bow and arrow and the deer should have their antlers sharpened ;)
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
923
Points
22
I guess I should have said that the manufacturers are subject to normal product safety laws without a specific governmental exclusion from those laws. If there were a few good lawsuits, gun manufacturers would certainly become a bit more inventive on developing safety mechanisms that keep four year olds from shooting anothe child.

And yes, a stolen gun should be the responsibility of the person it was stolen from if that person left it in a place where it could be easily stolen. Hey, guns are a bit different than most things in this world. The are lethal by design. A dinner knife is not designed as a lethal instrument. Neither is a car. Guns are, and owners should be very careful to keep them from going into the wrong hands.

With a little bit of responsibility, I am willing to support broad gun ownership. I just see gun owners insisting on lack of responsibility, and I don't like that.
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
Messages
674
Points
19
FueledByRamen said:
By the way, NRA or hunting people...what is the point of having a pistol other than shooting at a person or target practice? I have never shot a pistol, so I don't know, but as far as I know, all hunting uses either a shotgun or a rifle, neither of which need to be semiautomatic.
You see, FueledByRamen, for the most part you're right. Pistols are generally for shooting people or targets, although plenty of hunters carry a big caliber sidearm as an emergency backup. But the 2nd Amendment isn't about protecting my right to owns guns for hunting. It's about protecting my right to own guns so I can pop a cap in the ass of the guy who tries to take mine away from me. ;)

Peace,

El Feo ;)
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
El Feo said:
But the 2nd Amendment isn't about protecting my right to owns guns for hunting. It's about protecting my right to own guns so I can pop a cap in the ass of the guy who tries to take mine away from me. ;)

Peace,

El Feo ;)
You just made my day:)
 

Rem

Cyburbian
Messages
1,523
Points
23
Of course he should be charged. He could easily have provided a gun to his attacker, someone even less competent than himself to carry a gun.

By having and using his gun in a dumb situtation, as stated elsewhere, all he has done is caused a bashing and discharged the thing in an uncontrolled manner in a building. If an innocent had been hit, there would be a different tone to this thread. Remember the vitriole unloaded on the aged car driver who ploughed into a market killing several people earlier this year.

The issue isn't whether he has a right to own a gun or defend himself, it is about an individual's responsibility to be licensed by the state so that their ownership doesn't endanger others, or themself.
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
The issue isn't whether he has a right to own a gun or defend himself, it is about an individual's responsibility to be licensed by the state so that their ownership doesn't endanger others, or themself.
I agree
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Rem said:
Of course he should be charged. He could easily have provided a gun to his attacker, someone even less competent than himself to carry a gun.
Whooooaaa, leave old man Smithers alone. What do you do when your that old, get a bodyguard (sorry whitney h)? Hey I wish he would have shot the guy cause obviously the legal system isn't working to keep these people off the streets.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
FueledByRamen said:
By the way, NRA or hunting people...what is the point of having a pistol other than shooting at a person or target practice?
Well you could collect them?

But I keep mine around to shoot bad people should the need ever arise. Plain and simple. No other reason.
 

Nero

Member
Messages
246
Points
10
opps, sorry, I did not know that this was the right wing freak chat room........ I won't come back because us "leftys" are not welcome.
 

FueledByRamen

Cyburbian
Messages
449
Points
13
Planificador Urbano said:
opps, sorry, I did not know that this was the right wing freak chat room........ I won't come back because us "leftys" are not welcome.
ahahaha

Omg, your avatar is awesome!
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
Messages
674
Points
19
Planificador Urbano said:
opps, sorry, I did not know that this was the right wing freak chat room........ I won't come back because us "leftys" are not welcome.
Uh...you're not? I think you're just uncomfortable with diversity.

Poor PU. So sensitive. So unprepared for democracy.
 
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Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Planificador Urbano said:
opps, sorry, I did not know that this was the right wing freak chat room........ I won't come back because us "leftys" are not welcome.
Don't let the door hit you in the a$$
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Planificador Urbano said:
opps, sorry, I did not know that this was the right wing freak chat room........ I won't come back because us "leftys" are not welcome.
Dude since when was this the right wing freak (sorry right wing freaks) chat room. What, because the topic of gun ownership is involved? That my friend is what you call not being open-minded. I'm not right wing and I'm not left-wing, what I am is being able to make your own choices on your own without having to follow the bylines of some polical party or sect.
-Do I believe in gun ownership, yes I do, and I own a few, does that make me right wing, No. I makes me an informed citizen who can make my own choices when it comes to protecting myself, in the situation when the police can not.
-Do I believe in abortion, hey its not my choice its a woman's choice and her body, so she should be able to do whatever she wants with it. Does that make me lefty, no it makes me open-minded to the choice of what people want to do with their bodies.
-Do I believe in the death penalty, sure if it fits the nature of the crime. If somebody I knew was killed by some deranged maniac (sorry deranged maniacs) they better watch out cause I'd probally do the needed killing myself.
-Do you have to agree on any of this, no. But you know what, its what I think about those topics, not some deranged political group telling me what to believe in and vote for.
 
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