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Boy Scouts - Chapter 11

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
245
Points
10
Wow, the Boy Scouts organization is filing for bankruptcy.
All of this just breaks my heart, I look back very fondly on my time as a Scout, it was an overwhelmingly positive experience for me and one I want for my son. I'm simply dumbfounded that they kept records of abusers and victims for 70 years and didn't share those records with police?

I received an email from BSA this morning providing more details on the filing and what it means going forward if anyone is interested.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Moderator
Messages
13,887
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56
All of this just breaks my heart, I look back very fondly on my time as a Scout, it was an overwhelmingly positive experience for me and one I want for my son. I'm simply dumbfounded that they kept records of abusers and victims for 70 years and didn't share those records with police?

I received an email from BSA this morning providing more details on the filing and what it means going forward if anyone is interested.
At the risk of sounding mean...they kinda of had it coming of their own accord.
 

Whose Yur Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
11,393
Points
40
All of this just breaks my heart, I look back very fondly on my time as a Scout, it was an overwhelmingly positive experience for me and one I want for my son. I'm simply dumbfounded that they kept records of abusers and victims for 70 years and didn't share those records with police?

I received an email from BSA this morning providing more details on the filing and what it means going forward if anyone is interested.
I was never a scout, but this interests me. If you wouldn't mind, could you post it. I curious what they have to say.
 

Doohickie

Cyburbian
Messages
2,916
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40
I'm simply dumbfounded that they kept records of abusers and victims for 70 years and didn't share those records with police?
I haven't read any articles about this.... is that what they're saying happened? If so, damn them.

If they want to salvage Scouting in the US, let the Girl Scouts get sanctioned from the World Organization of the Scout Movement and let them admit boys into the ranks. Scouting is already a co-ed movement in many countries.
 

Doohickie

Cyburbian
Messages
2,916
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40
I was never a scout
Neither was I, but my sons were. My older son left due to what I'll call "official" harassment; my younger son left shortly after. I was a trained adult leader and it blows my mind that they wouldn't report possible instances of abuse. That seems totally against what they taught in Youth Protection Training.

For anyone interested, the official harassment was when he was selected for Order of the Arrow. He didn't even consider that a remote possibility and he was essentially abducted at a camporee and hazed (forced hike without adequate cover, not allowed to talk, was already coming down with a cold, kept up all night), all for an "honor" organization that he had no desire to be in and didn't feel ready for. He tried to work through it but in the end he felt betrayed by the troop.
 

Faust_Motel

Cyburbian
Messages
634
Points
27
he was essentially abducted at a camporee and hazed (forced hike without adequate cover, not allowed to talk, was already coming down with a cold, kept up all night), all for an "honor" organization that he had no desire to be in and didn't feel ready for. He tried to work through it but in the end he felt betrayed by the troop.

That sounds really wrong! When I was selected for OA, you got to go to a separate weekend event that was your "ordeal" with some of the elements as you describe. I had no idea what I was getting into when I went, but it was overall a positive experience.

That said, and despite a bunch of great experiences in scouting in my childhood, it's not something I chose for my son. The local troop is way too into the militaristic/patriotism/merit badge getting aspect of things.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Moderator
Messages
15,814
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At the risk of sounding mean...they kinda of had it coming of their own accord.
I agree. They deserve all the bad things coming to them. Sure, they have done a lot of good, but that doesn't excuse them for all of the bad they did. It reminds me of the Catholic church stuff....
 

Doohickie

Cyburbian
Messages
2,916
Points
40
That sounds really wrong!
This was at a multi-troop camporee where they had a OA "tap out" (selection of new member candidates). So basically, a scout dressed in Indian regalia taps a kid on the shoulder and says, "YOU! Come with me!" There's no choice for the kid being chosen because the OA member grabs the kid by the arm and pulls him up. He'd only recently made 1st Class (I think... or whatever minimum rank for OA is) and because all the troop youth leadership was already in OA he was an acting patrol leader (was thrust on him at the last minute). It was basically a perfect storm of stuff that went wrong that made the night a really bad experience for him. He stoically put up with it at the time, but a week or two later when he told us what happened he actually broke down and cried for the first time since he'd been a toddler.

This wasn't his Ordeal. He actually never did that because he really didn't want to be in OA after that, and he left Scouts.
 

Faust_Motel

Cyburbian
Messages
634
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27
This was at a multi-troop camporee where they had a OA "tap out" (selection of new member candidates). So basically, a scout dressed in Indian regalia taps a kid on the shoulder and says, "YOU! Come with me!" There's no choice for the kid being chosen because the OA member grabs the kid by the arm and pulls him up. He'd only recently made 1st Class (I think... or whatever minimum rank for OA is) and because all the troop youth leadership was already in OA he was an acting patrol leader (was thrust on him at the last minute). It was basically a perfect storm of stuff that went wrong that made the night a really bad experience for him. He stoically put up with it at the time, but a week or two later when he told us what happened he actually broke down and cried for the first time since he'd been a toddler.

This wasn't his Ordeal. He actually never did that because he really didn't want to be in OA after that, and he left Scouts.
Ah- still weird. I think the tapout ceremony for me was just getting tapped and standing up by the fire, then everything else happened at the ordeal?

I agree. They deserve all the bad things coming to them. Sure, they have done a lot of good, but that doesn't excuse them for all of the bad they did. It reminds me of the Catholic church stuff....
I'll say this, I did go on one canoe trip with a neighboring troop chaperoned in part by a "funny" Scoutmaster. He sure wanted us all to go skinny dipping- mentioned it enough times over several days on the river that we all got pretty uncomfortable and nobody did.

That guy had been involved with that troop for over 20 years, didn't have a kid in the troop at all. There is no way over all those years he didn't present as a risk in full view of the other adults involved. I don't know if he ever actually did anything but the risk should have been obvious and he should have been gone. Just for having a system that put guys like him around kids like me, the BSA should pay a bit.

The whole summer after, he kept calling our house for me wanting to sell me on some MLM thing related to ski tickets- when my Dad found out about that part he called him up and in no uncertain terms told him to stop contacting me.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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13,887
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This was at a multi-troop camporee where they had a OA "tap out" (selection of new member candidates). So basically, a scout dressed in Indian regalia taps a kid on the shoulder and says, "YOU! Come with me!" There's no choice for the kid being chosen because the OA member grabs the kid by the arm and pulls him up. He'd only recently made 1st Class (I think... or whatever minimum rank for OA is) and because all the troop youth leadership was already in OA he was an acting patrol leader (was thrust on him at the last minute). It was basically a perfect storm of stuff that went wrong that made the night a really bad experience for him. He stoically put up with it at the time, but a week or two later when he told us what happened he actually broke down and cried for the first time since he'd been a toddler.

This wasn't his Ordeal. He actually never did that because he really didn't want to be in OA after that, and he left Scouts.
Nope.

My boys were in Cub Scouts for a couple years and that was enough for me.

Our local Council also didn't help themselves to maintain enrollment year after year. To my knowledge there was no sexual abuse during the time I was involved (just a couple years ago), but the local Council was overly bureaucratic (too much paperwork to get a patch), took the whole 'thing' way too seriously and also made it difficult to give them money sometimes.

I was not a Scout mainly due to not being a 'joiner' and I have an older brother and grewup in rural northern lower Michigan, so I learned all the same stuff by just being willing to be outside....and not be stupid (knives are sharp and be careful with them? ;))

We got our boys into Cub Scouts mainly because we needed a 'third' activity for them since none were/are interested in sports. After a couple years, our boys moved on to other interests....thankfully.

Doohickie's and Faust's examples are indicative of why I have zero nostalgia for my family's time with the Scouts.

I also have little sympathy for the Catholic Church at the moment.
 
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Whose Yur Planner

Cyburbian
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11,393
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40
I also have little sympathy for the Catholic Church at the moment.
I was thinking the same thing and I've got Catholic on both sides of my family, though I was raised Protestant.

My family went cabin camping in Michigan plenty of times. I was taught knife, firearms safety and not to do stupid stuff in the woods.
 

TOFB

Cyburbian
Messages
2,499
Points
30
I also put 2 by 4s down on the floor to further wedge the front and side doors shut. I live in a pretty safe neigborhood but if someone is going to break into my house they will have to break a window and crawl through.

I had a pretty good Scout experience. That being said, there are numerous opportunities for predators and the vulnerable to be left alone.

I also didn't have any issues growing up Catholic and serving mass hundreds of times. But the Pastor was the most notorious pedophile in the Diocese - - I guess I wasn't his type.
 

mendelman

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I was thinking the same thing and I've got Catholic on both sides of my family, though I was raised Protestant.
I was raised Protestant (liberalizing German Baptist congregation), but most of my adult life, so far, has been Catholic since marrying my wife. But even she's an officially lapsed 'holidays-only' Catholic at the moment
 
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MD Planner

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Messages
2,490
Points
37
I was/am an Eagle Scout. I loved the Boy Scouts and never had any of "those" issues. As far as OA (Order of the Arrow) in my council at least it was viewed as a great honor. It meant your peers and leaders thought enough of you to select you. For us, you got "tapped out" at the campfire at the end of a week of camp. The guy who played the "Chief" was a camp worker/counselor and spent the week learning the faces of those who were to be tapped out. He'd stalk through the seated Scouts and then whip around and yank you to your feet. He'd then look at all the OA brothers around the campfire and someone would give a slight nod that it was the right scout. If not, he gently pushed you back to your seat. If it was correct he then clapped your shoulder 3 times. The Ordeal for us involved a Friday night of being led by flashlight to a spot along a trail with your groundcloth and your sleeping bag. They also gave you two matches that you could make a small fire with if you could and read some literature before you went to sleep. So you slept there under the stars until they came for you in the early morning. You couldn't speak to any one. We spent the day working on various physical projects around the camp. Breakfast and lunch were pretty meager rations but we had plenty to drink. When late afternoon came we got to shower and eat a very hearty meal in the dining hall. After dark we were led to a remote campfire site that I didn't even know existed and participated in the rituals. I loved every second of it. But I see how it could be rough for some kids.
 

Faust_Motel

Cyburbian
Messages
634
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27
I was/am an Eagle Scout. I loved the Boy Scouts and never had any of "those" issues. As far as OA (Order of the Arrow) in my council at least it was viewed as a great honor.
I also had a good OA and Ordeal experience. I knew enough ahead of time about what to expect for it not to be outright scary. I wish I had gone for Brotherhood, wish I had done my Eagle. But I kind of aged out at that point in my life and was looking forward to graduation and college and all of that.

If I could turn all of the good things about Scouting into something that also exempted all of the bad, I'd be interested in participating with my son. For now, though, I don't see that happening.
 

Big Owl

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Messages
2,678
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31
Unfortunately, the leadership created the situation that the organization is in today.
Ah- still weird. I think the tapout ceremony for me was just getting tapped and standing up by the fire, then everything else happened at the ordeal?
That's what I recall for the tapout ceremony. The ordeal was interesting experience for me. I recall being walked into the woods at night with nothing but a sleeping bag and a piece of plastic to lay it on. We were not permitted to talk. We were placed through out the woods to sleep. It was dark, new moon, I believe; so I couldn't see anything around me. I could hear people near me but I didn't know where they were located. I was placed on the up hill side of a big log. In the middle of the night, the three sodas that I drunk on the way to the Scout Camp were begging to be released; so I stood up and whizzed over the log. At first light, we were woken up and hiked back to camp to eat breakfast. As I and the other ordeal candidates were leaving the woods, I over heard one of the OA memembers that were supervising our group discussing whether it rained or was just a heavy dew that caused him to get wet during the night. Evidently he was on the downhill side of the log. He was a hardcore member who took great pride in make sure we had an "authenic" ordeal experience, as result he was a butt about it. After I was inducted in as member, I made a point to appologize for urinating on him in the middle of the night because felt he deserved to know the truth.
 

Doohickie

Cyburbian
Messages
2,916
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40
Ah- still weird. I think the tapout ceremony for me was just getting tapped and standing up by the fire, then everything else happened at the ordeal?
That would make sense.

He was miserable because he was getting a cold but ended up going because at the last minute they asked him to be the acting patrol leader since the actual PL was in OA. Because he didn't know what he was doing as a patrol leader he was late getting the patrol rounded up to go to the tapout ceremony, so he forgot his jacket. By the time the he got tapped out he was freezing, then they marched him through the woods all night and wouldn't let him talk so he couldn't tell him he was freezing. The whole thing was fubared.
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
245
Points
10
I was never a scout, but this interests me. If you wouldn't mind, could you post it. I curious what they have to say.
Here is the text of the email I received this morning.

Dear Scouting Family,

Today, the national organization of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy to achieve two key objectives: equitably compensate victims who were harmed during their time in Scouting and continue to carry out Scouting’s mission for years to come.

While the word “bankruptcy” can be intimidating, it is important to know that Scouting programs will continue. Your regular unit meetings and activities, district and council events, other Scouting adventures and countless service projects will take place as usual.

We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals.

As we go through this process, we want to make certain that all Scouting parents and volunteers know the following:
  • Scouting is safer now than ever before. Approximately 90% of the pending and asserted claims against the BSA relate to abuse that occurred more than 30 years ago. As someone close to Scouting, you know the safety of children in our programs is the BSA’s absolute top priority and that one instance of abuse is one too many. That’s precisely why over many years we’ve developed some of the strongest expert-informed youth protection policies found in any youth-serving organization.

    From mandatory youth protection training and background checks for all volunteers and staff, to policies that prohibit one-on-one interaction between youth and adults and require that any suspected abuse is reported to law enforcement, our volunteers and employees take youth protection extremely seriously and do their part to help keep kids safe. You can read more about the BSA’s multi-layered safeguards and our efforts to be part of the broader solution to child abuse at www.scouting.org/youth-safety. In fact, this is a resource that you can share with friends and family who are interested in understanding what the BSA is doing to keep kids safe.
  • Scouting continues. Scouting programs will continue to serve youth, families and local communities throughout this process and for many years to come. Just last year, communities across the country benefited from more than 13 million Scouting service hours, and young men and women earned more than 1.7 million merit badges that represent skills that will help them succeed throughout their lives. Studies prove and parents agree that Scouting helps young people become more kind, helpful and prepared for life, and as long as those values remain important to our society, Scouting will continue to be invaluable to our nation’s youth.
  • Local councils have not filed for bankruptcy. Local councils – which provide programming, financial, facility and administrative support to Scouting units in their communities – are legally separate, distinct and financially independent from the national organization.
We know you will likely have questions about these issues and things you will see in the news. We have posted information about our restructuring on a dedicated website, www.BSArestructuring.org.

This site includes a helpful Resources page, where you will find a short video explaining what Chapter 11 means for Scouting, as well as a FAQ and a reference document that will help you discuss this announcement with youth in our programs. The site also includes a Milestones page, which will be your best source for the latest updates throughout this process.

If these resources don’t answer your questions, please feel free to reach out to us through Member Care at 972-580-2489 or MyScouting@Scouting.org. We will do everything we can to provide helpful, transparent responses and ensure your Scouting experience continues to be a great one.

Yours in Scouting,

Jim Turley
National Chair

Ellie Morrison
National Commissioner

Roger Mosby
President & CEO
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
245
Points
10
I haven't read any articles about this.... is that what they're saying happened? If so, damn them.
The records release was back in 2012 as part of a lawsuit. The most recent abuse allegation is from 2006. The vast majority of abuse cases are from decades ago. The bankrupcy filing is due to the onslaught of lawsuits since 2012.
Neither was I, but my sons were. My older son left due to what I'll call "official" harassment; my younger son left shortly after. I was a trained adult leader and it blows my mind that they wouldn't report possible instances of abuse. That seems totally against what they taught in Youth Protection Training.
The current youth protection training is good and they have taken steps to fix the problems. They have gotten a handle on abuse and as I said above, the cases are mostly from 30+ years ago, however that doesn't excuse any of it. I feel pretty comfortable with the steps that they have taken, comfortable enough to participate with my son, it's just a shame that youth protection wasn't the first order from the beginning.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
13,123
Points
54
All this talk of scouting leaders and such, I think it would be interesting to look at requirements to other areas that adults work with children. Understand I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but some of it is too repetitive on an annual basis.

For example, to become a youth soccer coach in an accredited league / team in NC requires (mandatory) the following from NCYSA:
  • Annual Background Check (even though I had one last year & the year before & the year before, et cetera)
  • Annual Risk Management Assessment after Background Check returns clean (no findings)
  • Annual Abuse Prevention webinar and test in which you can only miss 3 questions (out of 25)
  • Annual Concussion Awareness training
  • Coaching Certification Level E or higher (our club gives you a year to obtain if you don't have it already)
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
Messages
1,437
Points
27
Here is the text of the email I received this morning.

Dear Scouting Family,

Today, the national organization of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy to achieve two key objectives: equitably compensate victims who were harmed during their time in Scouting and continue to carry out Scouting’s mission for years to come.

While the word “bankruptcy” can be intimidating, it is important to know that Scouting programs will continue. Your regular unit meetings and activities, district and council events, other Scouting adventures and countless service projects will take place as usual.

We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals.

As we go through this process, we want to make certain that all Scouting parents and volunteers know the following:
  • Scouting is safer now than ever before. Approximately 90% of the pending and asserted claims against the BSA relate to abuse that occurred more than 30 years ago. As someone close to Scouting, you know the safety of children in our programs is the BSA’s absolute top priority and that one instance of abuse is one too many. That’s precisely why over many years we’ve developed some of the strongest expert-informed youth protection policies found in any youth-serving organization.

    From mandatory youth protection training and background checks for all volunteers and staff, to policies that prohibit one-on-one interaction between youth and adults and require that any suspected abuse is reported to law enforcement, our volunteers and employees take youth protection extremely seriously and do their part to help keep kids safe. You can read more about the BSA’s multi-layered safeguards and our efforts to be part of the broader solution to child abuse at www.scouting.org/youth-safety. In fact, this is a resource that you can share with friends and family who are interested in understanding what the BSA is doing to keep kids safe.
  • Scouting continues. Scouting programs will continue to serve youth, families and local communities throughout this process and for many years to come. Just last year, communities across the country benefited from more than 13 million Scouting service hours, and young men and women earned more than 1.7 million merit badges that represent skills that will help them succeed throughout their lives. Studies prove and parents agree that Scouting helps young people become more kind, helpful and prepared for life, and as long as those values remain important to our society, Scouting will continue to be invaluable to our nation’s youth.
  • Local councils have not filed for bankruptcy. Local councils – which provide programming, financial, facility and administrative support to Scouting units in their communities – are legally separate, distinct and financially independent from the national organization.
We know you will likely have questions about these issues and things you will see in the news. We have posted information about our restructuring on a dedicated website, www.BSArestructuring.org.

This site includes a helpful Resources page, where you will find a short video explaining what Chapter 11 means for Scouting, as well as a FAQ and a reference document that will help you discuss this announcement with youth in our programs. The site also includes a Milestones page, which will be your best source for the latest updates throughout this process.

If these resources don’t answer your questions, please feel free to reach out to us through Member Care at 972-580-2489 or MyScouting@Scouting.org. We will do everything we can to provide helpful, transparent responses and ensure your Scouting experience continues to be a great one.

Yours in Scouting,

Jim Turley
National Chair

Ellie Morrison
National Commissioner

Roger Mosby
President & CEO
According the Washington Post, the Mormon church fielded nearly 20 percent of all BSA troops. They have left the scouting program as of this year. A drop in troop numbers like that can't help the situation.
 

michaelskis

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According the Washington Post, the Mormon church fielded nearly 20 percent of all BSA troops. They have left the scouting program as of this year. A drop in troop numbers like that can't help the situation.
I think there are many reasons that the scouts are falling apart. Personally, I think the organization lost its way many years ago. I spent 2 years as a Cub Scout den leader and I was disappointed in the system. It was nothing like I remembered as a kids, there was no real connection for the boys, and my kids lost interest as soon as they really discovered sports.

While I personally agree with the background checks on the leaders, it saddens me to see the shell of what it once was and the scandal only makes it worse.

A buddy of mine who became a 3rd generation Eagle Scout told be a while back that he has completely given up on them. He has 4 daughters and no sons, but he was still involved until two years ago.
 

Hink

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I shudder, but I think Maister needs to split out the BSA thread..... :eek::eek:
 

JNA

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My BSA experience was verry good -
Eagle Scout, Philmont, 2 different Historic Trail Medals, 50 Miler Patch, 2 summers as a Camp Counselor, 2 summer troop camping trips with my father.

Except never OA or Senior Patrol Leader.
 

Whose Yur Planner

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I was raised Protestant (liberalizing German Baptist congregation), but most of my adult life, so far, has been Catholic since marrying my wife. But even she's an officially lapsed 'holidays-only' Catholic at the moment
You were German Baptist? When I lived in the northern part of my native state, I actually encountered a couple German Baptist. They got grouped in with the Amish and Mennonites.
 

mendelman

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You were German Baptist? When I lived in the northern part of my native state, I actually encountered a couple German Baptist. They got grouped in with the Amish and Mennonites.
No. I wasn't.

The church I spent most of the childhood in was a Baptist congregation established in the late 19th century by Germans immigrants to the my hometown. This was the church for my maternal grandmother's family when they immigrated to my home County from Germany in 1914 when she was 5 years old.

By the time I came along, the congregation still had some of the Baptist behavior restrictions (ie no drinking, dancing, wedding receptions were dull as hell, etc.), but during the late 1980s and through the 1990s the congregation had been 'liberalizing' and moved more toward general evangelical christian mores than strict Baptist-ism.

They were never, in my understanding, close to Mennonite or Amish style German Baptists.
 

WSU MUP Student

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The cynic in me looks at the bankruptcy filing as nothing more than a way to get out of paying damages to those that were abused under the previous organization. This happens in all sort of industries/sectors and is a loophole in bankruptcy law that needs to be closed.

As for the Scouts themselves, I was a Cub Scout for a year and it was soooooooooooooooooooo boring. I always attribute it to the fact that I grew up on a farm and spent 99% of my waking hours outside "exploring" on my own and the Scouts, especially at that level had absolutely nothing to teach 4th grade me. It may have been a different story if I lived in the 'burbs or a more urban area or if I had started a little older when they were doing more interesting things.
 

Whose Yur Planner

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No. I wasn't.

The church I spent most of the childhood in was a Baptist congregation established in the late 19th century by Germans immigrants to the my hometown. This was the church for my maternal grandmother's family when they immigrated to my home County from Germany in 1914 when she was 5 years old.

By the time I came along, the congregation still had some of the Baptist behavior restrictions (ie no drinking, dancing, wedding receptions were dull as hell, etc.), but during the late 1980s and through the 1990s the congregation had been 'liberalizing' and moved more toward general evangelical christian mores than strict Baptist-ism.

They were never, in my understanding, close to Mennonite or Amish style German Baptists.
That is interesting. The northern part of my native state has/had Amish and Mennonite communities. I wonder how the German Baptist got grouped in with them. It's cool that you had an immigrant grandmother like I did, though from a different county.
 

mendelman

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That is interesting. The northern part of my native state has/had Amish and Mennonite communities. I wonder how the German Baptist got grouped in with them. It's cool that you had an immigrant grandmother like I did, though from a different county.
Technically, I had two immigrant grandparents - my maternal grandmother and my maternal grandfather (though he immigrated from Canada as an adult in the late 1920s).
 

Whose Yur Planner

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Technically, I had two immigrant grandparents - my maternal grandmother and my maternal grandfather (though he immigrated from Canada as an adult in the late 1920s).
One of the interesting things about where I live now is a lot of the families had ancestors who fought in the civil war. Some of the families go back to the founding of America. Plus, some have native American ancestors. Being that invested in America is pretty cool. The first of my families didn't get until the 1880s. The last of them got here in the 1910s. Again, I find it interesting to be a part of a family that dates that far back in America.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

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Scouting lost its way here a long time ago. No real hands-on experiences. Merit badges were "earned" at a merit badge pow-wow which entailed sitting in a room listening to a MB "counselor" and filling in questions on a paper. Merit badge earned! Back in my day, half of my merit badges were earned at scout camp and the others through hard work on my own.
 
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terraplnr

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I haven't read any articles about this.... is that what they're saying happened? If so, damn them.

If they want to salvage Scouting in the US, let the Girl Scouts get sanctioned from the World Organization of the Scout Movement and let them admit boys into the ranks. Scouting is already a co-ed movement in many countries.
No stinky boys allowed! :p
 

Suburb Repairman

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7,413
Points
33
I was an Eagle Scout, OA and all that jazz. I separated from scouting once they got public and political about gay scouts and non-religious scouts. I had a lot of friends in scouting that were both.

I'm glad I had a daughter. The Girl Scouts are run light years better, more progressive and appear to have always taken scout health/safety seriously.
 
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