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Can new urbanism exist in post-industrial cities? (former thread title: Yes, It can)

Can it work?

  • Yes, it will work

    Votes: 17 89.5%
  • No, it can not be done

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • Other (explain below)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,465
Points
44
I have been trying to find examples of New Urbanism in dense, post industrial cities, that are already built environments. I have not found much.

Here is my question; can the ideals of New Urbanism work in neighborhoods that are in dense, built environment, post industrial cities?

We all here things about new communities that are “new urbanism” but have any places improved their city by incorporating these ideas into there plans?
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Milwaukee has a "City Homes" project underway, reclaiming dense vacant single family lots for new construction. It has been very successful at bringing middle class residents back to these former war zones.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
Yes it can be done. Milwaukee is a prime example of very successful New Urbanist principles being implemented. Milwaukee was one of the rust belt cities that has seen a recent (past 10-12 years) influx of numerous New Urbanist projects, especially in housing, retail, and entertainment/dining.

Edit:
....looks like Chet and I both chimed in at the same time. I almost forgot about City Homes.
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,387
Points
25
Re: Can it work

michaelskis said:
I have been trying to find examples of New Urbanism in dense, post industrial cities, that are already built environments. I have not found much.

Here is my question; can the ideals of New Urbanism work in neighborhoods that are in dense, built environment, post industrial cities?

We all here things about new communities that are “new urbanism” but have any places improved their city by incorporating these ideas into there plans?
Let's clarify some terms, first. Are we talking about these ideals?

If so, I say yes.

Of course, this is easy for me to say having never worked with or for a post industrial city.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,763
Points
43
Yes, It can

Checkout Bridgeport Village in Chicago.

It is a 350ish unit single-family development in the neighborhood which continues the grid system. Its being built on former industrial land on Bubbly Creek.

But I refrain from using either TND or New Urbanism to describe this development, because both terms are forms of branding, and branding/marketing is evil.
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
There are several projects, past and ongoing, in Pittsburgh. Most are large scale developments on river front brownfields where the steel-mills used to be. A new one slated to get underway later this year is the leveling of several 1960's era apartment towers, reintroducing the old street grid that was destroyed by urban renewal and lots of new market housing. I'm excited about it and am actually considering buying a house in that neighborhood before the prices shoot through the roof in a couple of years.
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,387
Points
25
biscuit said:
There are several projects, past and ongoing, in Pittsburgh. ........... reintroducing the old street grid that was destroyed by new urbanism
NU destroyed the old street grid? Please elaborate......
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
SGB said:
NU destroyed the old street grid? Please elaborate......
Ooops, My bad. I meant Urban Renewal but was typing to fast and not paying attention.
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
Also, the Chicago Housing Authority is replacing the projects with mixed-income developments. They don't have mixed uses, but that's not much of a problem in the city where a commercial street is never more than a block or two away.

New Ubanists always like to talk about mixed income but I don't think they've ever actually built anything that comes close to being considered mixed, so the CHA's success with it is pretty encouraging.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
My city of employment is still in the "reduce density" mode trying to compensate for a negative image as a crowded and dirty mill town.

Michaeskis, HUD's Hope VI Program seems to have created a lot of NU style developments in inner cities.
 
Messages
5,353
Points
31
Seabishop said:


Michaeskis, HUD's Hope VI Program seems to have created a lot of NU style developments in inner cities.
I believe the latest edition of Planning magazine had a feature on the St. Thomas HOPE VI redevelopment project in New Orleans where the old housing development was demolished and is presently being replaced with single and two family homes. The entire project is being anchored by a huge ass Walmart, much to the dismay of many people. I've talked about this ad naseum in these forums before.
 

jresta

Cyburbian
Messages
1,474
Points
23
What qualifies as NU in an existing city?

I mean if a builder puts something up that fits in with its surrounding is that really NU or is it "old urbanism"

Either way we have a lot of it in Philly. Most of it market rate, a lot of it driven by UPenn in the University City area, also a good deal of it mixed income and built by Universal Properties Inc. that has partnered with the PHA.

As far as NU not building "mixed-income" developments - I'll just have to disagree. Just because they're market driven doesn't mean they don't accomodate people of different incomes.

What i think you are reffering to are units for sale where the purchase price is subsidized by various governments. Again, from experience, i'll have to disagree. I see it all the time when a state or a Housing Authority is subsidizing part of the project. Otherwise, show me the bank that is going to finance a developer who is subsidizing the sale price of certain units with proceeds from other units. Banks don't like that kind of risk.

In NJ of course, with Mt. Laurel I and II towns have to include a certain number of low and mod housing and they usually pass that responsibility on to the developers (when they're not buying housing credits from cities like Camden.) This doesn't mean, however, that the state doesn't subsidize those units.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,465
Points
44
Ok now that I know it can be done, I just need to figure out how to get the idea across to people, and see where I can find funding.

We have a situation here that may or may not be unusual with we do not have much, (if any) land for new development. The only large sections of land that we have right now are old rail road yards, and the company does not want to sell. Many of these ideas would have to be slowly worked into neighborhoods that have existed for many years.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
jresta said:
What qualifies as NU in an existing city?

I mean if a builder puts something up that fits in with its surrounding is that really NU or is it "old urbanism"
Exactly. I've always thought of New Urbanism as something that applies generally to suburban "greenfield" areas. Pretty much anything that blends in with the surroundings of most pre-WWII former industrial cities fits the definition of NU without the tag.
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
jresta said:
What qualifies as NU in an existing city?

I mean if a builder puts something up that fits in with its surrounding is that really NU or is it "old urbanism"
Infill development perhaps?
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,465
Points
44
It is a combination of infill development, changing zoning for some mixed use, and providing for transportation other than auto. (Such as new side walks, street trees, and pedestrian scale lighting)
 

jresta

Cyburbian
Messages
1,474
Points
23
yeah, we don't call it "new" anything -

there are no zoning changes. It's just infill that matches the character of the surrounding buildings.

Buildings per se aren't mixed use all the time unless they occupy a prominent corner or are on a commercial street but like someone else said, It's rarely more than a block to a commercial street so the 'hood is still mixed use.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
This is why I hate the term "New Urbanism" because there is nothing "new" about it except for the home.

The design standards, principles, etc. are old. Simply call it what it is, you want to replicate what was done in our cities 100+ years ago, but for some reason, we can't.

So, as was mentioned previously, we have alot of new "NU" developments going in Philadelphia, we're bulldozing blocks and blocks of ghetto to get it. But its simply called redevelopment.
 

LouisvilleSlugger

Cyburbian
Messages
216
Points
9
Re: Can it work

Have you looked at Park DuValle here in Louisville. its in the West End. it fits a lot of the criteria you mentioned. as well as Louisville.
 

hilldweller

Cyburbian
Messages
3,865
Points
23
Check out JAPA Vol. 70, No. 4 Autumn 2004. There is an article about how well the NE worked in Pittsburg.
 

Michele Zone

BANNED
Messages
7,657
Points
29
<clears throat>
If you will notice the dates, this appears to be thread from 2003. I doubt the subject matter is current (the teaser title would not be allowed any more if it were a new thread).
 
Messages
5,353
Points
31
Michele Zone said:
<clears throat>
If you will notice the dates, this appears to be thread from 2003. I doubt the subject matter is current (the teaser title would not be allowed any more if it were a new thread).
Moderator note:

I edited the thread title.
 
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