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Canada Poses Threat to U.S.

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
Most of the creative class stuff (software, animation, skilled services, movies, electronics design (except weaponry), internet-related activities) can be done far cheaper by Indians and Chinese-who are often as educated and far more dedicated than American (or Canadian) equivalents.

Richard Florida is very 1998.
 

Greenescapist

Cyburbian
Messages
1,169
Points
24
BKM said:
Most of the creative class stuff (software, animation, skilled services, movies, electronics design (except weaponry), internet-related activities) can be done far cheaper by Indians and Chinese-who are often as educated and far more dedicated than American (or Canadian) equivalents.

Richard Florida is very 1998.
I thought there was a lot more to the work the Creative Class does than just what you had in parentheses. What about advertising, marketing, graphic design, photography and all the arts? Do you think his argument is really that old? It seemed to make some sense to me.

Good for Canada if it helps them lure more talented people up there. Maybe it will a good lesson to politicians down here. Gay marriage is coming our way sooner or later anyway. I just hope it's not some protracted, bloody battle.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
You have some point, but the problem I have with this argument is that a country of 300 million people with a vast and growing trade and current accounts deficit (as well as the amazing government deficits now projected at all levels of government) cannot run its economy on "arts." "Arts" assumes a certain degree of disposable income-which is generated by "real" economic activity. Many of the communities thinking that they are going to replace their real economy with the arts are finding that shiny new landmarks provide a very thin and concentrated economy (see Gateshead/Newcastle Upon Tyne). How much real prosperity has been created by the Guggenheim in Bilbao-a dying industrial center? And for whome? Do tourist jobs really replace value-added manufacturing-or software design?

As for the graphics side of it-look at your coffee table books. Most of the graphics layout and printing (at least for architecture and art books) is now done in Singapore. Cartoons are all drawn in Korea. Software is done in India. That doesn't leave too much left for a growing population that is, relatively speaking, poorly educated, violent, and has poor health care.

Rather than Florida's book, our options are better laid out in a book published a few years back by Jeremy Rifkin.

Of course, the kind of options laid out by Rifkin (unrealistic as they are) will never happen in today's Turbocapitalist word.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874777798/002-0584639-6284042?v=glance
 

Rem

Cyburbian
Messages
1,524
Points
23
BKM said:
"Arts" assumes a certain degree of disposable income-which is generated by "real" economic activity. Many of the communities thinking that they are going to replace their real economy with the arts are finding that shiny new landmarks provide a very thin and concentrated economy (see Gateshead/Newcastle Upon Tyne).
I don't follow the logic in your proposition. With the exception of Berlin and maybe to a lesser extent Sydney, I don't think Cities that pursue Arts for their economic benefits alone end up with something that satisfies either the capitalists or the artists. Your contention that art assumes high disposable income is illogical. Many undeveloped and poor economies produce art that is highly valued within and beyond their own cultures.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,889
Points
51
what about all those Canadians who are in tv and movies?
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
JNA queried
what about all those Canadians who are in tv and movies?
See the movie the Canadian Invasion (I think that is the title). it is a doumentary on how we plan on taking over the US through the exporting of stars such as Lorne Greene, William Shatner, Lorne Micvhaels, Eugene Levy and others.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
I skimmed that article - I'd say most of it is bunk. It's just a case of the grass always being greener on the other side. The current "cultural renaissance" is only making up for the neglect of these instituitions over the past 10-15 years. As for the gay marriage thing, Canada might be out in front right now, but it already appears that several U.S. states and a few other countries are proposing a similar legalisation.

"Consultants" such as these have a really good racket telling depressed towns how to revitalize. My wife's hometown has had a host of studies done by different consultants over the past decade. Not much has changed.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
Maybe I am minsinterpreting his arguments, or yours (mea culpa), but I'm not dismissing the arts per se. Just saying that the fine arts alone are not an economic base for a community. I still remain unconvinced that a country with a huge population can run its economy on a few "creative class" "industries."


O/T response: As for great art being produced by relatively poor cultures, of course you're right. I remain skeptical, though, because the United States has pretty much eliminated a rooted grass roots "culture" that can produce fine folk arts. We are too mobile, too unrooted, too immersed in a sea of constant mass media bunkum. Look at what is being sold at county fairs, swap meets, and the like. Kitsch tied to television characters, country music stars, and mythical "country crafts." What foreign tourist would want to buy such dreck? Not to deny that there is good fine art being produced in this country-but that art is often intellectualized and not really rooted very deeply in American folk art. There are always exceptions to these generalized blatherings, of course.
 

Rem

Cyburbian
Messages
1,524
Points
23
BKM said:
Maybe I am minsinterpreting his arguments, or yours (mea culpa), but I'm not dismissing the arts per se. Just saying that the fine arts alone are not an economic base for a community. I still remain unconvinced that a country with a huge population can run its economy on a few "creative class" "industries
The problem is in my comprehension - we actually agree.
 
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