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Christmas Grinch teacher

Zoning Goddess

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Here's a teacher who told a class of 6-year olds that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are make-believe:

http://www.local6.com/news/2679232/detail.html

Yeah, another idiot southerner. Apparently some of the kids were pretty devastated.

I didn't figure it out until 3rd or 4th grade and told my parents in 5th grade that I "knew". My son is in 5th grade and hasn't said anything yet, although he did catch me red-handed playing Tooth Fairy a few months ago.

Who knew when? Good stories about unmasking your folks as these mythic creatures?
 

The Irish One

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That guy is basically an idiot. At 6 or 7 I knew. But I just figured it out. I loved x-mas more for the view of the tree and presents under it. I want a hobby/ toy train!
 

Cardinal

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Zoning Goddess said:
Here's a teacher who told a class of 6-year olds that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are make-believe... I didn't figure it out until 3rd or 4th grade and told my parents in 5th grade that I "knew"... Who knew when? Good stories about unmasking your folks as these mythic creatures?
ZG - What are you doing, saying things like that here! Don't worry, Skel, they're just kidding. ;)
 

SkeLeton

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LOL... Cardinal... next time put a snarfle warning ;) :p

Now that's a friggin moron... geee mabye I'll put on a t-shirt that says "Santa doesn't exist, your parents are liars" and go to an elementary school right when kids go into recess and I can walk through the corridor.
 

H

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My wife teaches in the same county as that teacher and apparently they had “meetings” about this at her school.

I think it is fine she said what she said. Santa is NOT real. One man can NOT fly around the world in one night and teaching this to kids is fundamentally wrong. Santa should be celebrated as folklore (like the ginger bread man). How do we expect our nations kids to be practical and sane when they are being confused about reality and the laws of physics?

STORY: When I was in 5th grade and my brother was in 1st I showed him where mom and dad hid the presents. The next day he went to school and told his class how Santa was not real. I was called to the principal’s office and scolded for what I had done. Parents of that class were calling my parents for a week. I got in SOOOO much trouble that neither my brother nor I ever told our youngest brother. Consequently I think he believed in Santa until he was like 12 years old. It was NOT healthy.

BAH HUMBUG. :-D
 

biscuit

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I was about 4 or 5 when I figured it out for myself. For some reason it just came to me that the idea of Santa Clause just didn't make sense, so one day I just flat out told my parents that I knew they were Santa. Mom and Dad were cool with that, however, I was threatened within an inch of my life if I said anything to my little sister.

You know, she's 24 years old now. I wonder if anyone has bothered to tell her yet?
 

Gedunker

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I don't remember when I "knew" the truth, but my son is 6 and I think he still believes in the magic of Christmas. I know he liked the $2.00 the tooth fairy just left him Sunday night :-D

Were this to happen in my son's class, I would hope that he would ask me about it so that I could really judge whether this came as a shock to him. I know he has heard people say that Santa isn't real, but I have never heard him say it. AND I will "threaten him to within an inch of his life" if he says anything to his 4-year old sister.
 
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I don't think I ever truly believed in Santa. We lived in an apartment with no chimney. How the heck Santa was going to get in?
 

Seabishop

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I think the teacher's an idiot. Whether a kid believes in Santa is obviously something parents should deal with not the teacher. The teacher just made liars of dozens of parents. There's a difference between enlightening the kids and being a pompous ass.


"How do you destroy a 6-year-old like that?" said Pam Sturt, whose son Bradley is in D.J.'s class.

Is that quote over the top or what?
 

SkeLeton

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I stopped believing in Santa when I was like 7 or so... damn stupid americans :p
Well after a while, kids realize that it's just a game; but it was fun while it lasted.
 

nerudite

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Elmo's kids still believe... althought the 11 year old (I think) is catching on (or putting on a good show of still believing for the 8 year old). I think believing in Santa isn't unhealthy... it's the spirit of Christmas personified. If it gets kids excited about Christmas, it's a good thing. Later you explain about traditions and loving the spirit of Christmas. I have no idea when I figured it out... but I was old enough that I wasn't crushed. I'm just glad that Elmo's kids believed in him as long as they have just so I could have fun 'playing Santa' and watching them empty their stockings.
 

SlaveToTheGrind

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From January 1990 Spy Magazine (or so I was told, who knows).

THE ORIGINAL "SANTA PHYSICS" PROPOSAL:

1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set(2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.
 

Seabishop

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SlaveToTheGrind said:
THE ORIGINAL "SANTA PHYSICS" PROPOSAL:
Hey, I don't follow all that science mumbo-jumbo. Alls I know is I left the cookies out and the next morning they were gone. How do you know-it-alls explain that one, huh?
 

otterpop

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Seabishop said:
Hey, I don't follow all that science mumbo-jumbo. Alls I know is I left the cookies out and the next morning they were gone. How do you know-it-alls explain that one, huh?
I agree with Seabishop. I always figured since Santa is magical that he has all those angles figured out. Maybe he stops time. Running a big operation like that maybe Santa does it like Halliburton - not doing much of the actual work, just farming it out to subcontractors and then taking all the credit. Or maybe he drops the presents off earlier, while you were out playing, and asks your parents to put them under the tree for him. Or maybe, just maybe, he is ONLY coming to the houses of the kids who believe in him.

Santa doesn't bring me presents anymore, but I am sure that is because for the last thirty-five years I have been a bad boy.

I bet that subsitute teacher will find a big lump of coal in her stocking this Christmas.
 

Habanero

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I think my overly religious grandmother ruined it for me at an early age. She told me as soon as she saw my first pictures with Santa he wasn't real. I'll be keeping my future children away form her until they figure it out on their own.


Funny story: Back in 4th grade the teacher announced we were going to take the rest of the afternoon off to write letters from Santa back to the kindergarden and first graders.. a pal shrieked in horror- she didn't know about Santa and was visibly upset for the rest of the day.
 

Gedunker

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Science is for those who have no imagination ;-) I did like the 14 Quintillion joules of energy. Per second. Each. Anybody say KABLOOIE?

Besides, not only did Santa eat our cookies and drink our (by then warm) milk, he decorated our tree! Did an damn fine job of it, too!
 

nerudite

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Habanero said:

Funny story: Back in 4th grade the teacher announced we were going to take the rest of the afternoon off to write letters from Santa back to the kindergarden and first graders.. a pal shrieked in horror- she didn't know about Santa and was visibly upset for the rest of the day.
We don't have that problem up here... Canada Post workers reply to Santa's mail on a volunteer basis. The mail address is

Santa
North Pole
HOHOHO

And then you really get a letter back. It's so cute, that I almost excuse their awful service for the rest of the year.
 

Bangorian

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H said:
I think it is fine she said what she said. Santa is NOT real. One man can NOT fly around the world in one night and teaching this to kids is fundamentally wrong. Santa should be celebrated as folklore (like the ginger bread man). How do we expect our nations kids to be practical and sane when they are being confused about reality and the laws of physics?
Frankly, to me, this is not very different than the teacher exclaiming something like, "The president is a moron!", "Creation is a hoax" or "Your people killed Jesus!". Not really appropriate for a first grader....

If the kid still believes in Santa wen he's 15, then yes, somebody should probably break the news to the poor sap.
 

giff57

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SlaveToTheGrind said:
From January 1990 Spy Magazine (or so I was told, who knows).

ok, come on, admit it. You have been talking to Jordan again haven't you.
 

Queen B

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Here is a different twist

My youngest brother was 8 when I had my daughter. While I was in the hospital we had to go to parenting classes to learn how to care for the baby. Well he inquired about what I learned in the class and I pumped it up as being a really secret special class and that it was this class where they taught us about Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. He explained to me that they really weren't real. I shook my head and told him it was a real surprise for me and he would just have to find out when he had a baby.
Guess he still doesn't know, no babies yet!
 

H

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otterpop said:
Santa doesn't bring me presents anymore, but I am sure that is because for the last thirty-five years I have been a bad boy.
Strangely enough I still get presents from Santa delivered to my mom and dad’s house. :-D
 

H

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MaineMan said:
Frankly, to me, this is not very different than the teacher exclaiming something like, "The president is a moron!", "Creation is a hoax" or "Your people killed Jesus!". Not really appropriate for a first grader....
Actually, it is very different. What you reference are nothing more than opinions, beliefs, theories and/or accusations.

It is not like it was her lesson plan (that would of been too far), but when the kids asked a question; they got the truth they deserved… nothing wrong with that.
 

Zoning Goddess

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I think it's kind of like religion. You know what you want your kids to believe and you don't want anyone else telling them something different, and you'll make the decision when it's time.
 

biscuit

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H said:
Strangely enough I still get presents from Santa delivered to my mom and dad’s house. :-D
Same here.
They’ll have the presents labeled “From: Mom and Dad” underneath the tree for a couple of weeks, but the bigger gifts are always put out Christmas morning and read “From: Santa” Even worse, the stockings still get filled with fruit and the necessary batteries. :)

They’re going to become grandparents for the first time this coming January so I suppose this kind of stuff will never end.
 

H

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biscuit said:
They’ll have the presents labeled “From: Mom and Dad” underneath the tree for a couple of weeks, but the bigger gifts are always put out Christmas morning and read “From: Santa” Even worse, the stockings still get filled with fruit and the necessary batteries. :)
ditto, ditto & ditto :)

that is how mine do it also.
 

Bangorian

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Zoning Goddess said:
I think it's kind of like religion. You know what you want your kids to believe and you don't want anyone else telling them something different, and you'll make the decision when it's time.
That's precisely what I was talking about. the biblical Creation story, or noah's ark, or the burning bush, etc. are contrary to science, does that mean its a myth and that teachers around the country should be telling their young students that all these biblical stories are untrue? I doubt that'd go over well...

Frankly, some people believe in fairies & sprites & wood nymphs and stuff like that - sure I don't believe in it, but what right do I have poo-pooing on their parade?
 

H

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Apples and Oranges

MaineMan said:
...the biblical Creation story, or noah's ark, or the burning bush, etc. are contrary to science, does that mean its a myth and that teachers around the country should be telling their young students that all these biblical stories are untrue? I doubt that'd go over well...

Frankly, some people believe in fairies & sprites & wood nymphs and stuff like that - sure I don't believe in it, but what right do I have poo-pooing on their parade?
I am seriously trying to see the relevance of your argument, but just cant. What you reference are items that conscious freethinking adults have made the choice to believe in (and actually believe in). There are no adults (that I am aware of) who actually believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy or other like fables. No free thinkers believe these stories are real. It is not a belief, religion or a way of life. While I wont disagree in principal with the statements you made, I will say that they have no relevance to the Santa argument. You are comparing apples and oranges.

And yes. Science teachers should be telling students that these stories are untrue and teach science, not religion. And to my knowledge this is what is practiced in public schools. I certainly was thought evolution in class, not Adam and Eve. I doubt any public school teachers teach that fairies are real either.

Have you ever heard of separation of church and state?
 

H

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I know I am being a Grinch; so I will try to stop ranting on this thread after that last post. :)
 
Last edited:

Gedunker

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Re: Apples and Oranges

H said:
Science teachers should be telling students that these stories are untrue and teach science, not religion. And to my knowledge this is what is practiced in public schools. I certainly was thought evolution in class, not Adam and Eve. I doubt any public school teachers teach that fairies are real either.
First H don't go, you have valid points.

I will throw this into the conversation: a child believes in many things because they lack both the knowledge and experience to discriminate between truth and fiction. As they age, they become intellectually able to understand the idea of myths. The original question here, IMO, was 'When is a child ready to learn this?' Most posters to this thread seem to agree that age 7 is at the very edge -- witness the children who were surprised to learn that Santa did not exist.

Childhood is so short and the world really is a hard place. I'd like to protect my kids from the worst of it as long as possible. But I am duty-bound as a parent to ensure that they are ready for the real world and, when they are, they will know the truth.
 

Repo Man

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My guess is this teacher is probably pretty unhappy with her own life, so she wanted to ruin any fun for these kids. Chances are some kid on the playground already had said there was no satnta, but it is much different when you hear it from an authority figure.

I think I was around 6 when I figured it out. We were an "open the presents on x-mas eve" family so my mom or dad would take us on a car ride to look at x-mas lights and one parent always had to stay back to do somthing. When we came back the presents were there and the parent that stayed home was always pre-occupied when santa came.

Slightly off-topic: I dated a girl a few years ago who confessed that she belived in Santa until the 8th grade. Maybe that is why we are not dating anymore.
 

Chet

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Well, I dont own a christmas tree.

When I was about 3 years old (really before I can remember) someone ruined santa for me. No biggie.

UMM Nerudite and Elmo - an 11 year old just figuring it out? Well, I suppose look on the bright side, you wont have to worry about him having sex before he's 30. ;)
 

jmf

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Chet said:
UMM Nerudite and Elmo - an 11 year old just figuring it out? Well, I suppose look on the bright side, you wont have to worry about him having sex before he's 30. ;) [/B]
I don't know how long I REALLY believed but since my sister is 6 years younger thn me I think my parents hid it a lot more even when I was older to keep things interesting for my sister. I also had to write letters to Santa for a long time (I think 12 or 13 even, but then my sister was only 6 or 7) asking for things - but hey at least it gave my parents shopping lists!
 
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When my neice was 3 she whispered this into my ear "Santa's not real but don't tell anyone cos they bring me presents". Her parents played the game for years and she never let on because she was never quite sure where the presents came from.

I'm a bit of a bah hum bug myself, I hate the idea of Christmas being a time of presents for good little kids...many good little kids don't get anything for Xmas. I remember my parents slogging their guts out to try to work miracles with our family's budget. They did it, but at what cost?

It's fun to see the sparkle in a kid's eye on Christmas morning, but I think we should stop overdoing it. In my family, we are putting the focus back onto family and charity work. But I appreciate that that is easier to do when there are no little kids.
 

JNA

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?What is wrong with Florida and Christmas?

Christmas Show Scams Fla. School Children
By Associated Press
December 5, 2003, 8:23 AM EST

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...47003.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

MIAMI -- Busloads of school children who paid for a field trip celebrating the Christmas holidays learned a Grinchly lesson. Thousands of youngsters had paid between $10 and $20 apiece to attend a show called "Christmas From Around the World." But when their school buses arrived Wednesday morning, the kids found a shuttered playhouse and a missing promoter -- along with their money.
 

Zoning Goddess

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JNA said:
?What is wrong with Florida and Christmas?

Sounds like Santa has had too many margaritas already...

Hey, it's Florida, land of the scammers. Unfortunately, it happens a lot here, this time of year.
 

Bangorian

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Re: Apples and Oranges

H said:
Science teachers should be telling students that these stories are untrue and teach science, not religion. And to my knowledge this is what is practiced in public schools. I certainly was thought evolution in class, not Adam and Eve. I doubt any public school teachers teach that fairies are real either.

Have you ever heard of separation of church and state?
I agree wholeheartedly. However, again, its the age thing that gets me. You can teach a highschooler one side of an issue (i.e. evolution), and they will have the free will and exposure to other ideas to make up their own mind about it, even if they do finally decide to believe in something that can't be explained by science. At 6 or 7 or whatever age it was in this case, most kids have neither.

And I don't really think its apples and oranges. It is a belief, for a 7 year old boy. Its also a personal belief system that is learned via the family, passed on from generation to generation. No matter how crude or elementary it is, that is what it is. If a small isolated tribe somewhere has folk tales or beliefs that we find absurd, should someone tell them that their culture is hogwash and they'd better start believing in prevailing western science / medicine / religion? And really how different is a family from a small isolated tribe, in terms of their right to have their children believe what they want them to believe whgen they want them to believe it?

Separation of church and state goes both ways - while it shouldn't endorse a certain religion, it also shouldn't suppress any religion - by teaching that something is inherently untrue. For instance, while I was being tought about evolution, the teacher was always very careful to say "these are theories developed by scientists which may or may not be true. Everyone is entitled to their own belief, nobody has discovered the hard and fast truth, etc.

I don't know exactly what the teacher said, but perhaps if it was more along the lines of "some people say that Santa doesn't exist", as opposed to "There's no such thing as Santa!", which is the gist I got, maybe that'd be more acceptable to me...

In my opinion, the only business the state would have in disrupting this belief would be if the child's welfare would somehow be compromised by a belief in Santa - such as still believing in 10th grade... Until then, let the parents decide what the kid believes.
 

Mastiff

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I always ask Santa for a big stocking of coal.

I mean, what's he going to do, right?
 

Gedunker

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Mastiff said:
I always ask Santa for a big stocking of coal.
OT: I lived in N/E PA after I got my undergrad and dated a Scranton girl. On St. Nicholas' Day the tradition is if kids were good they get a treat, if not coal (meaning you better get your act together, quick!). So her parents take us out to dinner St. Nicholas' Day and her mom gives me a freakin' bag of Scranton anthracite! No s++t! The GF was extremely embarassed having no idea what mom was up to.

Let's just say she made it up to me later :-D And I bet mom never found out about that!
 

BiteMeElmo

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Continuing the Santa myth is done for both parents and children. The kids have fun seeing and participating in what they perceive as a veritable superhero. The parents enjoy making their kids happy by allowing them this participation. As a matter of fact, I think being Santa has given me as much happiness as when I once received gifts from Santa.

My daughter just turned 11, and as far as I know, she's just getting wise to the whole thing. I guess that's a bit old for a kid to find out, but being her parent, I think it's lucky. Indeed, life is hard, and kids grow up probably faster now than ever. I don't think believing in Santa for a couple of extra years is a big deal. It allows me to hold on to my child, as a child, for just a bit longer. She just found out, but I don't think it was traumatic for her. To me, it's somewhat of a rite of passage. You're growing up, little girl, but please don't grow too fast.
 
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BiteMeElmo said:


My daughter just turned 11, and as far as I know, she's just getting wise to the whole thing. You're growing up, little girl, but please don't grow too fast.
Your daughter is officially a 'tween - still a "child" but not quite a teenager yet. You would be AMAZED at what some of these 'tweens know and DO nowadays.
 

NHPlanner

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Planderella said:
Your daughter is officially a 'tween - still a "child" but not quite a teenager yet. You would be AMAZED at what some of these 'tweens know and DO nowadays.
Please don't remind me of that Planderella....I want mine to stay 5 forever!
 
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